Steroids/Androgens Good - Persistent Hypo Symptoms (years)

[Spartan300]

Blood tests have confirmed that I have high T, DHT, DHEA-s (& morning cortisol)

Hypo symptoms - poor temps, sleep, libido, mood, morning wood, dry skin. Build has always been slim/difficulty gaining muscle and I have gained bodyfat in last 10 years. I did ok building a little muscle up to 10 years ago. I have hated having small build and tried to do something about it my whole life (54yo) and my androgen levels suggest it shouldn't be the case.
My guess is the cortisol has always outweighed the androgens....

Been working on Peat principals for 4+ years & tried everything vitamins, minerals, Preg/prog/DHEA, many Idealabs products. Best thing has been T3 or T4/3 combo but symptoms remain. I've been taking T3 (~16mcg/day) for months and temps are still poor. I decided to do a no starch day yesterday, lunch was late & temp was 35.2 before I ate!!

Exercise tolerance is pitiful compared to 10 years ago. Every time I try to increase I crash. Cannot seem to make myself no exercise for more than two weeks. Maybe I need a longer break?
Calories 2200 - 2500 but more just leads to fat gain.
Supplemental steroids (preg/prog/DHEA) result in estrogenic symptoms. As does Vitamin E/cypro.
More thyroid & it seems I start to gain fat?

Steroid pathways suggest I cannot be deficient in preg/prog etc with high T/DHT & DHEAs?
I think I want anti-cortisol mechanisms that won't affect libido?

Any suggestions?

 

[Broken man]

Your estrogen and prolactin?

 

[hei]

Is 16mcg of T3 enough? Not sure that 16mcg is a replacement dose and other users have found that low doses can be suppressive.

 

[Spartan300]

@Broken man Serum prolactin level 208 miu/L [0.0 - 500.0].

Unfortunately my GP wouldn't test estrogen but my understanding is that prolactin & estrogen are closely correlated?

@hei Good question but when I've taken more I seemed to get a bit porkier around the middle... Many people on here seem to be trying to dilute T3 so that they can dose at 1mcg or less so I'm confused on dosage. I've also seen references to people taking up to 150mcg/day. Wilson's temperture syndrome has caught my attention but no idea where I'd get sustained release T3 from or what dosage to use.

 

[Spartan300]

A little thought makes me think I felt lousy enough today to start this thread because I pushed my workout a bit too much Friday.
As mentioned above, temps plummeted yesterday too.

I remember how good working out used to make me feel and I'd like to get back there.
Has anyone taken a long enough break and achieved this?
I've read of a few people who claim to have become more muscular after stopping exercising?

 

[MitchMitchell]

High Dhea-S and high cortisol aren’t desirable. Chronic stressors could be diet related or just lifestyle, I don’t know.

it does look like you’re overtraining, which may not be so severe that your androgens are tanked, but Dhea-S and cortisol should be mid range.

 

[Tarmander]

I've read of a few people who claim to have become more muscular after stopping exercising?

I have noticed this happens over about a week, but longer than that the gains from rest taper off for me

If you have been trying to raise temps and metabolism within a Peat paradigm for 4 years, I think you are at the point where you need a new paradigm.

 

[Spartan300]

@MitchMitchell
I'd always thought high DHEAs might be a good thing? Are you able to elaborate?
Supplemental DHEA seems to make things worse for me.

@Tarmander
Different paradigm? Any suggestions? Get back on the Pufa?

 

[Tarmander]

@Tarmander
Different paradigm? Any suggestions? Get back on the Pufa?

do PUFA make you feel good?

You could start using different success metrics other then temp. Or looking into other ways of measuring health

I got into the microbiome and it has been fruitful. You can get into genetics and taking supplements based on that, although I have no idea if that works.

You could look at Chinese medicine and acupuncture.

 

[Spartan300]

I've told this story here a few times but something clicked around this time of year in 2016.
I woke up on a Sunday morning after a night with friends and a few glasses of wine with diamond cutter morning wood and a waistline that felt lean and tight. It lasted about 4 days until I pushed myself in the gym because I was feeling so good. I went back to square one....

The best I could ever decipher was that I had kept working out but significantly backed off the intensity.
No supplements I was using around the time have recreated the situation.

Workouts have not really been intense since but I can't seem to make it happen again.
Might drop all supplements that I wasn't using at that time.

I just remembered that that Saturday night I got into bed and knew for the first time in a long time that I was going to sleep. And I did, soundly, within seconds.
I'd give a lot for that feeling again.

 

[Sefton10]

A little thought makes me think I felt lousy enough today to start this thread because I pushed my workout a bit too much Friday.
As mentioned above, temps plummeted yesterday too.

I remember how good working out used to make me feel and I'd like to get back there.
Has anyone taken a long enough break and achieved this?
I've read of a few people who claim to have become more muscular after stopping exercising?

I'm pretty sure it was years of intense workouts that tanked my thyroid too. Now I just stay away from 'workouts' completely. I can feel symptoms kick in as soon as I try anything too strenuous, it's as if my system is too ready to drop back into a hypo-metabolic state - cold hands, fuzzy head etc. Now I'll do little bits every day but spread it throughout the day, so for example a push, pull legs split with one focus each day. Using push as an example, I just pick one movement then do 3 or 4 sets across the day e.g., dips or press ups or floor press, with each set near to a meal time. It's key that I go nowhere near failure on each set too as that will kick off negative symptoms.

 

[GreekDemiGod]

High Dhea-S and high cortisol aren’t desirable.

Does supplementing DHEA not increase DHEA-S levels?

 

[Spartan300]

@Sefton10 thanks, I like the idea of splitting a handful of sets across the day. Shame it's come to this though.

 

[Spartan300]

Does supplementing DHEA not increase DHEA-S levels?

I've always assumed it would. My DHEA-s when last tested was above ref range. Would like to know what that might be indicative of or whether there's anything I should be doing about it

 

[Frankdee20]

I've always assumed it would. My DHEA-s when last tested was above ref range. Would like to know what that might be indicative of or whether there's anything I should be doing about it

It can often raise other hormones

 

[Sefton10]

@Sefton10 thanks, I like the idea of splitting a handful of sets across the day. Shame it's come to this though.

It's really frustrating, especially given the damage was done in a quest for 'health' in the first place! I shudder now when I think of the fasted workouts I used to do at 6am. There is probably merit in taking a complete break from any strenuous exercise other than walking for say a month, I just haven't been able to bring myself to do it as of yet. A handful of sets of 8-12 reps in good form spread over the day so as to avoid a high demand on the CNS from heavy weight and/or too much lactate from pump work. Always 2 or 3 reps shy of failure. That's my thinking anyway. When I do even an abbreviated full body workout after 4 or 5 days rest I still feel a negative impact.

 

[Spartan300]

It can often raise other hormones

As mentioned my androgens are high but I don't exhibit the associated traits which is frustrating. If the above is true then that could account for it? Would there be a recommended course of action?

 

[TheHound]

I've told this story here a few times but something clicked around this time of year in 2016.
I woke up on a Sunday morning after a night with friends and a few glasses of wine with diamond cutter morning wood and a waistline that felt lean and tight. It lasted about 4 days until I pushed myself in the gym because I was feeling so good. I went back to square one....

The best I could ever decipher was that I had kept working out but significantly backed off the intensity.
No supplements I was using around the time have recreated the situation.

Workouts have not really been intense since but I can't seem to make it happen again.
Might drop all supplements that I wasn't using at that time.

I just remembered that that Saturday night I got into bed and knew for the first time in a long time that I was going to sleep. And I did, soundly, within seconds.
I'd give a lot for that feeling again.

are you saying it was possibly the wine here?

 

[czecha]

I've told this story here a few times but something clicked around this time of year in 2016.
I woke up on a Sunday morning after a night with friends and a few glasses of wine with diamond cutter morning wood and a waistline that felt lean and tight. It lasted about 4 days until I pushed myself in the gym because I was feeling so good. I went back to square one....

The best I could ever decipher was that I had kept working out but significantly backed off the intensity.
No supplements I was using around the time have recreated the situation.

Workouts have not really been intense since but I can't seem to make it happen again.
Might drop all supplements that I wasn't using at that time.

I just remembered that that Saturday night I got into bed and knew for the first time in a long time that I was going to sleep. And I did, soundly, within seconds.
I'd give a lot for that feeling again.

Weird question, but did you ever use finasteride?

 

[Spartan300]

are you saying it was possibly the wine here?

Not necessarily but I think the whole situation, wine, food and good company played a part. Maybe lowering stress/cortisol.

Weird question, but did you ever use finasteride?

No I haven't but my symptoms seem similar to Pfs although my androgen levels are good