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Steroid Cycle: Test P + Masteron Questions & Discussion

  1. Been trying to get some t base but no luck so far. Do you guys know someone who sells it?
  2. Any supplier on Alibaba.
    Also Purple Panda Labs if you want a popular source.
  3. I am not doing the masteron sir and not planning on doing so for now. Only T so far. Will add an oral for 4-6 weeks. That’s it
  4. I've seen you mention Alibaba loads of times for dht or test, whenever I go on Alibaba I can't find any.
  5. Be creative. Search for the legal stuff first, ie peptides, then ask them if they have AAS
  6. I´ve heard that when taking AAS that Thyroid function is lowered. It is then possible that prolactin raises.

    So is it advisable to take a little bit of T3 (Tyronene) or NDT (Tyromax) with the AAS?

    Also I would welcome the "fat-burning" effect of thyroid.
  7. Then also I saw a video where the doc said that HCG is an anolog of thyroid releasing hormone. So theoretically you can raise thyroid levels indirectly when using HCG.

    I am using HCG about 2x/week. Is this enough to prevent thyroid from lowering?

    What are your thoughts on adding a little bit of thyroid supplementation to the protocol? Will I have a little bit more "fat burn"? Is it a matter of trying it out? Do I not need it?

  8. If prone to hair loss. should we be worried about these DHT causing hair loss?
  9. The decrease in circulating thyroid hormones is mechanical. T3 is catabolic. The anabolic effect of steroids in part is achieved via lowering T3 and other catabolic hormones like cortisol. Supplementing T3 will only serve to increase catabolism, which is not aligned with your goals. The exogenous T and hence rise in estrogen will create a ‘fat-burning’ environment independent of the necessity of high T3. Remember estrogen is potently lipolytic.
  10. Could this be environment dependent? From what I understand from Peat and haidut is that steroids won’t even work properly if thyroid is off. They work together.

    I would think it wouldn’t matter so much if one was well fed.

    I don’t understand how estrogen is lipolytic, it’s main purpose is to increase fat and water weight for giving birth. Can you explain?
  11. Mind and Muscle T2 Fat Burner
  12. Or this...

    Wrath of the Valkyrie - Combo Pack CAPSULES AND CREAM

    Also, anything that increases metabolism will probably decrease HPTA function. But you already know I’m not a fan of female hormones, so my recommendation is below. You can make a tincture and add SFAs or maybe use DMSO instead.

    Tongkat Ali Extract Powder (Pure Malaysian) (200:1) (70 Grams)
  13. You can understand it when you see studies showing taking AIs along AAS increases fat, whereas not taking any AIs helps maintain a lean mass
  14. Oh you again...

    Where are these studies?

    Estradiol does not directly regulate adipose lipolysis

    As I’ve stated, I don’t think one should tank estrogen, just keep it in the lower ten percent of the normal range. The ratio of your hormones and how well they’re utilized is what counts.

    At the same time, any fat loss from estrogen would be due to having more hormones available and, thus, a higher metabolism, clubbed with estrogen being a stress hormone.

    Lipolysis is a result of stress, but it has to be proper stress. Lipolysis can occur other ways.

    You glorify estrogen as if I should take e pills.

    Personally, I see the most fat loss when I have good test/dht, low e, and use aspirin or something else to keep my stress hormones low.

    When my stress hormones are high, I lose muscle and store fat.
  15. There you go:


    If you want to understand better the role of estrogens in men, you can listen to Alex Kikel’s podcasts.
    Estrogen therapy is indeed a very succesful one for men, when it comes to muscle mass, libido and joints :)
  16. Chapter 24: Estrogens and Body Weight Regulation in Men
  17. Got it! Thank you
  18. Hey @olive I am wondering if a Insulin Syringe is enough to get the oil into the muscle. I don’t know if it reaches „intramuscular“ as the insulin pins are usually very short/small. Which (size) one would you recommend to use?
    I am asking because I like to switch spots more regularly (using chest, delt, ventro, upper/outer glute area) instead of only using upper glute and ventro so far with the 23g needle. Thanks
  19. Insulin needles work fine as long as your not excessively fat and the oil isn’t too viscous. Assuming the brewer is using MCT/it’s derivatives it should pass the through the slin pin quickly. Grape seed oil or equivalent would still work but may be quite slow. Castor oil likely would clog. As far as spots go I’d avoid the glutes unless you’re very lean, otherwise you risk it going subq. There’s nothing wrong with that per say but it slows down absorption time and can lead to mildly painful welts underneath the skin. Delts, chest, lats, ventro glute, outer right quad, teardrop, biceps, triceps are all good spots to hit with an insulin pin. Even upper outer forearm is okay. Traps and calves can be painful and should be a last resort in my opinion.
  20. I agree. I was thoroughly impressed reading, it’s a shame it will likely go unread/ignored by most on this forum who for whatever reason have a bias toward low estrogen when it’s obvious that’s a fools errand. It’s hilarious reading the vitamin k threads, all these men mega dosing vitamin k and losing their hair thinking it’s due to their skull expanding in a matter of days - not realising they’ve simply just crashed their estrogen.
  21. "A growing body of evidence now also supports a critical role for estrogens in metabolic regulation in men. Recent data from clinical intervention studies indicate that estradiol may be a stronger determinant of adiposity than testosterone in men, and even short-term estradiol deprivation contributes to fat mass accrual."

    "Only over the past few years have clinical intervention studies begun to confirm pre-clinical evidence that estradiol contributes to body weight regulation and metabolic health in men. One small study examined the effects of testosterone replacement in obese men with low-normal baseline serum testosterone concentrations. Whereas treatment with testosterone gel led to significant reductions in adiposity, these changes were not seen when testosterone was co-administered with an aromatase inhibitor"

    Chapter 24: Estrogens and Body Weight Regulation in Men
  22. Thank you. So you are saying an Insulin needle is „big“ or rather „long“ enough to reach intramuscular?
    This would be very painless and smooth and also fast pins i guess. Also nice that this way using an insulin needle you can use so many more spots to pin.
  23. Yes, it’s long enough for most spots to hit intramuscular. Glutes may be the only exception due to the tendency of people to carry a thick layer of fat between the muscle and the skin.
  24. High e2 has been amazing for me.. i lost a lot of weight in my mid section
  25. Im a little disappointed I believed in an anti estrogen for about 10 years... i probably destroyed myself using an AI and other ways to combat e2....

    i would be scared to get a dexa scan
  26. In your experience, what symptoms do you feel when estrogen is pushed too low?
  27. Sore joints, cracking joints, inflexibility, poor skin texture, dry cracking lips, dry penis head, loss of girth, low libido, weak orgasms, poor insulin sensitivity, poor sleep, poor gut motility, constipation, mood swings, night sweats, fatigue, lethargy, anhedonia, itchy scalp/skin, hair loss, fat accumulation around the mid section, etc.
  28. ,my symptoms are almost identical
  29. Scrotal T application will take care of that ;)
  30. Dosage?
  31. I'm using insulin syringes as well, though you should not go below 0.33mm (29G) x 12.7mm. Otherwise the oil can leak out of the muscle and you get the effects of an subq injection, which can be unpleasant using test prop.
  32. @sebastian_r @olive

    Currently I have a 30Gx1/2 Insulin syringe/needle, that is 0.3mmx12mm

    Good? Or should I get the little bit bigger ones as Sebastian mentioned? 0.33mmx12.7mm?

  33. Thanks, I’ll read through it when I can.

    At a glance though, I fail to see how this contradicts what I’ve said repeatedly...

    Curious, do you also have any evidence that contradicts your statements?
  34. Thanks, what evidence do you also have that you are wrong? How did you structure your analysis?

    Estradiol does not directly regulate adipose lipolysis

    See? You can literally make any claim and then find a study to back it up.

    Also, this doesn’t negate my statements. In my original post I stated to use this product for OCT Test Booster Combo Pack which has an A.I. but also a SERM and will improve sensitivity without dropping estrogen too low.

    As I’ve stated, estrogen shouldn’t be tanked.

    You’ve stated that estrogen is required for anabolism and preventing catabolism isn’t sufficient, and that we should check steroid forums, yet the bodybuilding community has shied away from wet steroids because the bloat and other damaging estrogenic side effects just aren’t worth the hassle for such little gains.

    Thus why dry, lean gains are now sought after instead.

    Estrogen is a stress hormone, so yes it can lead to fat loss if metabolism increases enough, which will probably happen when you give someone with low hormones sufficient hormones.

    However, be it estrogen or steroids or t3 or whatever, the anabolism/catabolism is merely an expression of current energy stores.

    Taking steroids won’t save my muscles if I start running marathons.
  35. What exactly do you mean by unpleasant?
    I have used the insulin syringe 30G 0.30mm x 12.0mm for the past 2 days to inject in my thigh. I absolutely don’t have a lot of fat tissue there. So I am assuming it went intramuscular. However I got some PIP at the area of injection now.
  36. Yes for lean area the needle you use should be long enough. A little bit of pip is normal with prop on a new muscle. With unpleseant I'm referring to big red swellings of the skin that can take 3-7 days to go away when you inject prop subq.
  37. Those symptoms are similar to cortisol deficiency a.k.a. Addison's disease. Supraphysiological levels of testosterone could lower cortisol to the point of deficiency. Cortisol helps to suppress inflammation. Itchy skin, night sweats and cracking joints are symptoms of inflammation. Estrogen raises cortisol, which in turn suppresses inflammation, which may explain why you feel better with higher estrogen.
  38. @sebastian_r @olive

    Thanks for the tip on using the insulin syringe / needle.

    So much nicer :)
  39. It’s a good theory, I see where you’re coming from but I stand by those symptoms as signs low estrogen.
    I’m very familiar with both low cortisol and low estrogen. They are similar on the surface but different when you really break them down.
    Low cortisol for me shows as poor sleep, dizziness, dry elbows and most evidently red flaky skin on knuckles - pic related.
  40. Have you noticed cortisol suppression symptoms during high dose AAS usage?
    Following @Luming Zhou reasoning, providing you don’t block aromatase during a cycle, the high enough estrogen levels should trigger a cortisol response.

    So which of the androgens vs estrogens wins the cortisol battle overall?
  41. Very interested in that as well
  42. It's far more nuanced then that. I don't have time to get into the nitty gritty but look into HSD-11 if you're really interested. Extra estrogen won't help the way you think by "triggering a cortisol response". Taurine will attenuate much of the cortisol issues however certain steroids can cause issues if run for long enough - not because it lowers cortisol but because it is a direct antagonists of cortisol receptors leading to an excess of cortisol in serum with no where to bind. Most steroids don't have this issue however. I believe methyltrienolone, anavar and possibly winstrol are the only ones, at least that I'm aware of.
  43. Sorry mister I’m too busy to call or write my fans
    That’s enough of an answer, thanks
  44. interesting, so glucocorticoid antagonists are harmful in the long run due to blood cortisol buildup?
  45. The potent systemic ones at least are directly harmful in my experience given enough time; cortisol will build up in blood and lead to hypotension/hypokalemia. But even any time you antagonise cortisol receptors you'll inadvertently be lowering progesterone which will lead to estrogen:progesterone imbalance - and being the raypeatforum I assume most of you know what that means.
  46. Why all always think that antyaromatase drugs decrease estrogens?Much role in making estrogens belongs to STS? Why all always ignore it?
  47. These are not mutually exclusive statements.

    AIs do lower aromatase therefore estrogens while STS is still responsible for most of the estrogen production.
  48. [QUOTE = "gilson d dantas, post: 464065, member: 8495"] Я использую оральную температуру. 5 минут. Два термометра одновременно. Оба ртутных термометра. И температура никогда не поднимается [всегда 36,5 o C]. [/ QUOTE]
    t3 и t4 лучше взять в разное время. t3 - ночной прием - максимальная доза, затем в течение дня // Слишком быстро выводится t3 из организма, поэтому нет смысла брать его слишком много, но очень много смысла принимать его, когда ваше тело очень в этом нуждается - перед вашим просыпаясь, чтобы дать надпочечникам вырабатывать стероидные гормоны.
  49. Just wanted to report about my experience

    Cycle in total was about 10-11 weeks. Tapered off the last two (decreased the dosage), used HCG (2x 250-500 I.U. per week) last 3-4 weeks. AI (Exemestane) wasn’t used, because wasn’t needed at any point.

    Week 1-8/9 I used around 300-350 Testosterone Propionate or Phenylpropionate per week. Added Masterone at some point for about 3 weeks (didn’t like it), tried Winstrol, didnt like it, then used Anavar and liked it. Also I’ve used small dosage of Proviron (12.5 - 25mg / day) on some days per week throughout.
    Orals I have used 3-4 days on small dosage (10-20 mg) 1-2 days off. Winstrol maybe only for about 1 week, Anavar around 3-4 weeks.

    Overall good experience. Recovered faster, gained weight, felt stronger. Looked more muscular. Nothing superhuman tho. Felt good, good experience. Now off since around mid November, everything works fine, feeling good, lost some weight again (about to same as before cycle) but I think I have kept some muscle.

    It helps, it’s not dangerous imo, if you are using with a plan and responsible.

    Will start next cycle in near future.
    Thinking T-bol only, and also TestP+D-bol as some options.
  50. What did you feel with Masteron? What didn't you like?
  51. Made me look flatter, gave me light acne/pimples on shoulder area, mood swings
  52. Currently back on
    Testosterone PP 150-200mg/week
    10mg Dbol/day
    Proviron 25mg Eod
    Tribulus Eod to stimulate LH/FSH

    Feeling great. Improved sport performance & recovery.
  53. No libido boost?
  54. Not really. Not significant for sure, I would remember.
  55. After reading the following threads, and trying it out myself, I think instead of using HCG 2x/week during cycle (or the use of AAS) it can be a better option to apply Pregnenolone + DHEA on scrotum, maybe 2-4x per week or so. I think low doses works best.

    Raising Serum Androgens Using DHEA, Pregnenolone, And Vitamin K

    Pregnenolone (P5) Fully Prevents Testicular Atrophy Due To Steroid (ab)use Or High Estrogen

    Today I have applied 1 drop stressnon, 1 drop pansterone and 2 drops k2 to scrotum and it feels like it very nicely supplies the body with androgens.

    What are your thoughts?

    HCG? Preg+DHEA? Other substances like Clomid etc.?
  56. how did you do with the stressnon eugenol on scrotum?
  57. Just did it once so far
  58. Currently on 3rd week Of

    About 150-200 mg T Phenylpropionate ~50-75mg every 2nd day.

    10mg Dbol a day with 1-2days off per week.

    Throwing in TBase some days when quicker recovery is needed, or after very hard training.

    Feeling great. Libido is very high. morning erections. Good sex. Faster recovery from training. Gained weight, stronger in the gym.
  59. I have been following ray peat's ideas and dietary advice for several years. I decided to try low dose mast. test (80mg test a week and 150mg mast) a week. The results have been fantastic. My confidence, energy, libido and erectile quality have all improved more than anything I have ever tried. I may have a slight increase in acne and my lipid panel has been slightly altered. I am not sure how sustainable or healthy it is to stay on this protocol long term. I got into ray peat for hair loss prevention I am assuming this protocol is less than ideal for optimal hair growth and may induce slow hair loss over time.

    perhaps a low dose anavar + test would be safer as effective protocol?
  60. I'll getting a lot of blood work done to see what effect masteron has on it (prolactin, thyroid, cortisol, shbg, DHT, free testostrone, lipids)
  61. My RBC increased, my face is more defined, tons more vascular..
    hair so far iffy, doesnt look as thick
  62. did this combo lower prolactin or cortisol?
  63. My cortisol wasn’t effected, prolactin dropped a little, but i cant say this was a result of masteron