Steroid Cycle: Test P + Masteron Questions & Discussion

Discussion in 'Supplements, Pharmaceutical Drugs' started by NextLevel_, Aug 7, 2019.

  1. OP
    NextLevel_

    NextLevel_ Member

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    Good point. @Momado965 you should definitely use some Testosterone, or as olive said something that can convert to E as a „base“.
    If you use DHT-derivates on its own (in higher dosages, for a longer time) I think you can definitely run into some problems.
    Sarms could be an alternative for you. I don’t know much about them and their safety though.
     
  2. Momado965

    Momado965 Member

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    Intertesting.
     
  3. olive

    olive Member

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    I finally dug up that study. Low estrogen leads to increased fat gain and worsened sexual function.

    https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1206168
    “..estrogen deficiency primarily accounted for increases in body fat; and both contributed to the decline in sexual function. ”

    Estrogen is lipolytic, anabolic and increases insulin sensitivity. Low estrogen is linked to hair loss, libido issues, worsened sexual performance, dry skin, depression, memory issues, high blood sugar, etc. Why this forum is obsessed with lowering it beyond the healthy range is beside me.
     
  4. Mark21

    Mark21 Member

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    Heres what saturation means. Despite running say Test E at a constant dose every week, from week 1, endogenous levels will continue to rise through to 4-6 weeks, at which point they stabilize provided dose is kept constant.

    OP is taking Test P, much shorter half-life, so saturation will occur sooner, and this was my bad here, I thought he said test C.. nevertheless this is a pretty well recognized and agreed upon feature of cycling.
     
  5. Satellite

    Satellite Member

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    Very interesting. I agree that estrogen shouldn’t be tanked. There are some good forms of estrogen. I think estrogen metabolism/detox is often overlooked.

    However, I am not sure I would call estrogen anabolic. I do not think anything female is anabolic. The only reason progesterone is “anabolic” is because it blocks estrogen, but too much and it tanks testosterone too, causing enlargement of the breasts.

    Sure muscle can be built various ways, but they are not all anabolic. Taking creatine and pumping the muscles until they split will divide the cells and cause growth also, but I wouldn’t say it’s anabolic. This is why creatine causes bloat, similar to estrogen.

    Anabolism is more about pure muscle growth without the cell swelling, and burning fat at the same time. As in only taking sugar and aminos and creating new proteins.

    This is the preferred method, which is why this forum advocates it. Besides with all the estrogens in the environment, you really should keep it low. You’re already getting flooded by it daily.

    At the same time, I believe you are wholly correct that there is an optimal ratio of androgens to estrogen for each person. The ratio is what matters most.

    For me, I cannot live without pine pollen. I get far better results from it than anything else even though it’s not very strong. But it contains all four male sex hormones, keeps the endocrine system strong, all while keeping the hormone balance in a healthy ratio.

    A plethora of androgens with low/controlled estrogen and cortisol is what keeps me lean and mentally sharp. Oh and plenty of dopamine. Dopamine is a game changer!
     
  6. Satellite

    Satellite Member

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    Have you considered taking haiduts calcirol, vitamin k, androsterone, and Metergoline?

    That is VERY anabolic for me.

    Calcirol keeps my cortisol low. It actually made me more tan without the Sun.

    Vitamin K2 is very anabolic for my muscles and bones as it boosts testosterone.

    Androsterone will keep estrogen low and turn into DHT.

    And Metergoline blocks serotonin which improves bone strength.

    The entire combination was very anabolic for my muscles but especially my bones. If you want to get strong then increase bone strength.

    I am not joking when I say my lifts all went up like a hundred pounds. It was insane.
     
  7. TheBeard

    TheBeard Member

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    The only OCT you would need is HCG to keep your balls active, no amount of « test booster » will do jack ***t for your HPTA while it’s receiving a high exogenous T signal.

    And also: « letrozole »...? I don’t think you understand the strength of that compound, don’t go around giving bad advice like this, some people might think you are serious.

    And all of you @Momado965 and yourself better start reading what @olive says about estrogen, he is spot on.

    If you don’t understand the critical importance of estrogen beyond what literature says, it means you haven’t played enough with AIs and crashed your estrogens before.
     
  8. TheBeard

    TheBeard Member

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    Anabolism: you build the cells the body needs. Eating is anabolic, sleeping is anabolic, androgens are anabolic, estrogens are anabolic.
    Catabolism: you break down. Work out is catabolic, chronic stress is catabolic, cortisol is catabolic, fasting is catabolic.

    Estrogens build collagen, bones, tissue, hair...and you are telling me they aren’t anabolic?

    What’s with «nothing female is anabolic »?

    I would try to talk in less clear-cut terms until you get some more book knowledge, failing some real-life knowledge.
     
  9. Satellite

    Satellite Member

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    I am living proof you are wrong- on all of your statements.

    Do what works best for you though.
     
  10. Satellite

    Satellite Member

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    You are very contradictory. Stress is catabolic, yet estrogen (a stress hormone) is anabolic? That makes sense...

    Swelling the cell is not forming new cells from raw materials. Swelling the cell until it splits is catabolic unless you eat enough.

    Yes, no female hormones are anabolic. Female hormones increase body fat, water retention, and breast size for giving birth. Hardly anabolic.

    Collagen is stress related and not good for you. You can do all the other things you stated without estrogen.

    Thanks though, I always enjoy when the emotionally bias present themselves as free thinkers.
     
  11. Satellite

    Satellite Member

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    HCG?

    You really love your female hormones.

    So I guess that’s why transgender men take male hormones, so they look like women....
     
  12. Momado965

    Momado965 Member

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    Lol wtf dude but its funny though. I know a ton of bodybuilders who take hcg to restore lh and fsh function. The claim is basically lh and fsh to jumpstart T production. However, more or excess lh and fsh correlate negatively with testicular T production.
     
  13. TheBeard

    TheBeard Member

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    HCG doesn’t restore lh and fsh.
    HCG mimics lh, suppressing your endogenous lh production.
    HMG mimics fsh.

    @Satellite you still have a lot of hormone reading to do, would be good if you coupled it to empirical experience.
    This is not the place to educate you on the topic, I would advise you scroll the serious AAS forums.
    And I mean the serious ones
     
  14. OP
    NextLevel_

    NextLevel_ Member

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    Of Course. I was taking androsterone, pansterone, pregnenolone, Vitamins, Supplements (creatine etc.) .. all of that

    Nothing gives you the ability to recover as fast, and to train again hard the next day, or even for a second time on the same day than AAS do.

    I am not even 2 weeks into the cycle and can already say this.

    That being said, I am still taking the Vitamins like D, K2 etc. and Androsterone sometimes.
     
  15. OP
    NextLevel_

    NextLevel_ Member

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    Yeah, taking Test PP / Test P. Will do about 10-12 weeks probably. I will add an oral for 4-6 weeks in the next couple of weeks.

    So far so good, no side effects so far, no need for AI (Aromasin). Test is at about 300-400mg / week, HCG every 3rd to 4th or so. Proviron added in some days.

    Feeling good, gained weight (muscle / water), recovery is faster, gym performance better. Very hungry all the time though haha
     
  16. Satellite

    Satellite Member

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    That shouty poster is bonkers. Too much estrogen in the brain maybe.

    The substances I named are ideal for the reason you state. They’re not extreme on the HPTA, so it gets activated just enough - in a masculine way.

    Hormones cause expression. Why would you want to express femininity if you are a male athlete?!?! This is insanity.

    Bodybuilders use these hacks, because bodybuilding is as unnatural as it gets.

    Bodybuilding is hacking.

    Athletes are not bodybuilders and should refrain from anything related if they want to maintain athleticism.
     
  17. Satellite

    Satellite Member

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    Oh that sounds perfect...

    Kay.
    Talking with you is a waste of time.
    Try putting down the books and using the brain instead.
     
  18. Satellite

    Satellite Member

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    Oh ok nice. True about the AAS too. Much of what you said can be attributed to the increased metabolism though.

    I am just not sure it is ideal for you. Unless you are a linebacker or sumo wrestler etc. where size is imperative to your sport, I rarely see a time where more size benefits an athlete.

    The only time is if that size is accompanied by an equal or greater amount of strength.

    For example, you gain twenty pounds increasing your squat from 200 to 400 pounds at 200 lbs weight. Squatting 2X bw easily compensates for the extra weight you have to move around now.

    Athletes need better relative strength than size. Even then, more is not always better e.g. taking your squat from 400 to 500 may not even improve performance that much. Just depends on the individual.

    This is where speed work comes in. Squatting 400 but really fast may be better than the 500 squat for your performance.

    So the nervous system and muscle relaxation is the focus, since speed is really just how fast your muscles can contract and then relax for the next contraction.
     
  19. OP
    NextLevel_

    NextLevel_ Member

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    Absolutely. Raw size here is not the goal. For that the cycle/dosages needed to be much higher I guess.
    Recovery - being able to do more work is the goal as well as getting stronger. Also feeling good, ready to attack every day / every training session without being run down from the previous days.
     
  20. TheBeard

    TheBeard Member

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    Hope you can resolve the insecurities surrounding your masculinity, sounds like it’s taking a lot of place in your life
     
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