Steroid Cycle: Test P + Masteron Questions & Discussion

Discussion in 'Supplements, Pharmaceutical Drugs' started by NextLevel_, Aug 7, 2019.

  1. OP
    NextLevel_

    NextLevel_ Member

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    @sebastian_r @olive & all others

    What do you think about including Anavar 15-30mg/day (alongside the T-Propio/Phenylpropio) for the last 6 weeks of the cycle? Does it do anything positive in terms of additional gains in strength / athletic performance or is it rather a substance that’s just too expensive for the minimal advantage that it brings?
     
  2. olive

    olive Member

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    I like it. Get some taurine to prevent painful pumps from the var and to protect leydig cells. There’s some dodgy research showing large doses of caffeine significantly enhance anavar - might be worth considering. Drink plenty of fluids. Anavar messes with kidneys.
     
  3. Mark21

    Mark21 Member

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    It takes about 4-6 weeks to achieve full saturation as it is, so 8 weeks sounds to be ineffective. 12-15 weeks seems most appropriate. If its your first real cycle, conventional advice is to stick to test and maybe an oral, like anavar.

    My approach, first cycle, was to take Test E 15 weeks @500 mg, then drop to 125mg for 5 weeks alongside anavar @25 mg a day to pull the water and fat out that i accumulated on blast. Worked incredibly well in my case, gained a ton of strength and mass, then cut the fat off. On cycle i ran some HCG and aromasin, once i finished i did a nolva PCT and finished the rest of my HCG.

    My cardio was relatively minimal though, hiking with my dog maybe 5x a week. I would look towards other PEDs for aerobic gains. AAS raise RBC count, so there's use in that, and in recovery from cardio, but again there's better stuff out there.
     
  4. olive

    olive Member

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    Full saturation means nothing. You are anabolic after the first pin. 8 weeks is plenty effective. Past 6-8 weeks you are fighting a losing battle against myostatin anyway, so the risk:reward ratio is skewed negatively.
     
  5. OP
    NextLevel_

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    @olive do you always cycle and cruise in between?
     
  6. OP
    NextLevel_

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    What do you think about in terms of stuff for improved cardio?
     
  7. OP
    NextLevel_

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    So you wouldn’t go longer than 8 weeks?
     
  8. OP
    NextLevel_

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    I have everything on hand now.

    Did my first injection of 100mg of Testosterone Phenylpropionate in ventro glute as @olive suggested. No pip at all so far.

    Feeling motivated (wanting to do things, move/train) and energized since injection earlier today. Also a lot more hungry :)

    I will keep you all updated how things are going. Peace
     
  9. Momado965

    Momado965 Member

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    What is the best oral testosterone designer steroid out there? I am not a fan of needles mainly because of seed oil. I’d much rather use suspended T over seed oil T but oral T is what I want.
     
  10. olive

    olive Member

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    Most brewers have switched to MCT oil, or its derivatives.

    But to answer your question; dianabol is probably the best choice as you need something that converts to estrogen.
     
  11. sebastian_r

    sebastian_r Member

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    I prefer turinabol over anavar, but I don't think you need either during your first cycle. In any case go 4-6 weeks max with orals.

    If I take orals I do 2-3days on 1-2 days off, to make it more bearable.

    Orals can be hard on the body in terms of sides. Giving my body a small break from it every 2-3days helps me a lot with the sides.

    Other smart guys rotate additional drugs to testosterone e.g. 2-3days an oral, then 2-3days an short ester injectable.
     
  12. Momado965

    Momado965 Member

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    Wtf?!!! Why would I need something that convers to estrogen?
     
  13. OP
    NextLevel_

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    Oral T would be Testosterone Undecanoate. Brand name is Andriol Testocaps by Organon.
    You would need to take a lot of caps every day of it though, to see a performance or muscle building effect. So it’s pretty cost intensive. Usually that’s why people don’t use it, at least athletes etc.
    Can be a good substitute for injection, it is not harmful for the liver and provides Testosterone in an oil solution. And it’s convenient. But like I said very expensive and very mild in effectiveness.
     
  14. OP
    NextLevel_

    NextLevel_ Member

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    Why do you like T-bol more than Anavar. What’s the difference in your opinion?
     
  15. olive

    olive Member

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    Low estrogen leads to hair loss, brittle bones, sore joints, limp ****, no sex drive, emotionless, dry skin, impairs memory formation, impairs growth, etc.

    When you take exogenous steroids the body will downregulate and eventually shutdown endogenous T production. Without T the body has no way to create estrogen, so you must take a ‘base’ steroid that converts to estrogen or you’ll run into the problems I listed above. Remember estrogen is also anabolic, studies show T with no estrogen leads to fat gain - T with estrogen leads to muscle growth.
     
  16. Satellite

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    Not sure this route is better than improving your training routine, but it’s your choice.

    Also, I never quite understood why cycles are ever done without OCT. OCT improves the cycle, prevents shutdown, and reduces the stress from the PCT.

    For example, I would do:

    4 weeks OCT buildup:
    Test Booster Combo Pack
    You can replace the SDAA with any other test booster that works for you.
    Hi -Tech pharma has decent arimistane products also, but Thor’s hammer has other ingredients you’ll need for the liver, kidney, heart etc.

    First 4 weeks of cycle:
    Continue OCT
    Slowly add in test prop

    Next 8 weeks (start of full cycle):
    Continue OCT (add in letrozole if stronger is needed)
    Test prop
    Add in masteron

    Next 4 weeks:
    Continue OCT/letrozole
    Reduce test prop
    Finish masteron

    Next 4-8 weeks:
    Continue OCT/PCT
    Reduce letrozole but keep arimistane to destroy the estrogen letrozole tied up
    Add in any other natural substitutes: pine pollen, tongkat Ali, nettle root, turmeric (rivals tamoxifen in effectiveness), etc. to normalize the body’s hormone levels.

    Someone else mentioned keeping blood levels steady, which is a valid point. However, I do not do this and I still make gains, permanent gains. The gains come slower sure, but no side effects and it’s permanent. When I come off completely, I don’t “lose all my gains”.

    This is why I suggest improving your training (check out Westside Barbell methods), because I can take a ridiculous cycle and get crazy, but it’ll never last, and I don’t always come out ahead either. Nothing improved my gains like improving my training programming and organization.

    Holler.
     
  17. Momado965

    Momado965 Member

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    Interestingly odd. Where can I find those studies of testosterone leading to weightgakns?
     
  18. olive

    olive Member

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    You misunderstand. Low estrogen (caused by aromatase inhibitors) leads to weight gain due to impaired glucose metabolism and poor insulin sensitivity.
     
  19. Momado965

    Momado965 Member

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    Ok got you. But all what you say is not so peaty. Besides I got so interestef in what you said so I reseaeched quite a bit. I stumbled upon haiduts anabolic thread on properties of hormones that stimulate anabolism. An anabolic substabce as per his thread is a substances that bind to GR and exert anti catabolic effecrs. Such substances are hormones like testosterone and progesterone. Non of which is estrogenic or have estrogenic effects. Estrogrn is catabolic as it id involved in stress metabolism as per posts from haidut and various other members and per dr ray peat. Now unless you are reffeeing to swollen like effects of estrogen on the body and muscles specifically, estrogen has no anabolic effects.
     
  20. olive

    olive Member

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    Haidut is a very well read man but his knowledge of the endocrine system is flawed. Estrogen is absolutely crucial for muscle growth. As is the AR. GR modulation prevents catabolism but does not induce anabolism. Read a steroid forum for a little while, they hold more knowledge than you’d think.

    Estrogen is absolutely not catabolic. Anyone who told you that has a very poor understanding. Estrogen is as anabolic as it gets. It’s a powerful growth stimulator - for good and for bad.
     
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