Stephanie Buttermore's Success Story Of "Going All In"

[Ingenol]

@Ingenol I don't have an answer for your question,but I was wondering can't you recreate the pufa-rich junk food that you crave? like frying your own fries in coconut oil etc.
That way if you still keep on craving it,that might be an indication that there is something in there what your body needs. If you stop craving it, it probably was a false craving.

@Dutchie I really appreciate your reply. For me though I don't really have specific foods I crave, it's more about the amount. In fact when I am out of control and in the midst of a binge episode I often have trouble deciding what to binge on because I want to eat everything.

I have tried introducing recreations of foods, or even just eating them in moderation, without any success (I don't feel any different/my "cravings" don't subside or change). Some people suggest that eating enough for long enough will allow you to eat intuitively again; this is what seems to have happened with Stephanie Buttermore, but my fear is the risk involved in trying this approach, finding it does not in fact lead to any ability to eat intuitively, and then being that much worse off physically for the sustained attempt.

 

[Blossom]

Would you say more about how you were able to regain intuitive eating? I have suffered from binge eating disorder for decades now and have zero ability to eat intuitively. I'm pretty sure my "craving" to eat PUFA-rich junk food until the physical pain becomes too great to keep going is a reflection that my body isn't getting what it needs, but not reflective of what it actually does need.

I never had binge eating so unfortunately I’m not sure how helpful my experience will be. I had an unfortunate family situation that took my attention so I was forced to focus on that and moved toward just eating regular meals and didn’t have the time to second guess myself. My health started improving dramatically within a few months of being forced to make that change. I quit tracking calories and using that as a way to determine if I had eaten enough and started paying attention to my bodies feedback.

 

[SaltGirl]

I don't know if your remember 180 Degree Health a few years back, but in one of his blog posts or videos, Matt Stone did admit that this type of refeeding tended to work better on women than men. It was an offhand remark he made showing the success on one of his clients, but a remark I have remembered for the past years.

 

[Vinny]

Awesome work man!

What do your meals consist of? Do you try to hit a certain fat/protein ratio? How's your energy on this diet? Ever get bored from just eating meat and fat?

Thought I had my skin issues figured out but now my rosacea/acne has flared up again badly... and so now I'm pretty much back on the carnivore diet + a bowl of frozen blueberries and some honey every day to keep my sanity. Just a week in and bacne has completely gone away so that's promising.

Thanks

My meals consist of ground beef only. Very rarely a piece of ripe fruit or a tsp of honey, only if craving. Used to cheat more with carbs in the beginning, but it was a mistake.
Not trying to hit any ratio atm. May be will try some butter soon for vit K.
Energy improved, but still cannot exercise.
For more details please check my recent answer to member redsun.
Yes, it is boring, but I guess one gets used to that eventually. We'll see...

Edit
I eat some shellfish sometimes, a lamb liver and lamb heads once in a blue moon

 

[Vinny]

Good deal. I actually did a week of zero carb at the beginning of this month, not for weight loss but rather to cope with toxic mold exposure. I had completely lost my appetite so I was forcing myself to eat just lean beef to prevent muscle wasting. I'll have to make a thread on the subject.

Anyway, once I had the mold dealt with I switched to high carb very low fat, like 10g of fat at the most. Even though I went carnivore for just a week I had strange symptoms returning to a high carb diet. It took about 5 days for the symptoms to dissipate and my glucose metabolism to return to normal.

I'm telling you this because when/if you reintroduce carbs you may feel strange for a while until your body adapts. It's a good idea to keep fat intake as low as possible during that time.

Ok, thanks

 

[animalcule]

I'll add my "all in" experience to the mix: After trying and failing at the carnivore diet (extreme fatigue, acid reflux, gastroparesis), I went off the diet and started adding in fruit. I came across Stephanie Buttermore doing her "all in" experiment, and decided I should try that, too. The dates are not clear in my mind, but I think I went "all in" by at least July or August of 2019. Today, I am 40 lbs heavier than my lowest on the carnivore diet, and 30 lbs heavier than when I started "all in."

I am certain that I would be even heavier if I hadn't quit the "all in" mentality a little while back -- I was gaining weight rapidly, my joints were inflamed, my sleep was terrible, I was bloated, tired, brain fogged, depressed ... "All in" had me feeling terrible. I had convinced myself that perhaps my food sensitivities were all in my head, or were the result of too much restriction. Wrong. I added in dairy and other foods I had been avoiding and experienced terrible sleep, irritability, digestion, and mood.

Today, I am once again avoiding certain triggering foods, though I do not count calories. My appetite is not extreme, and I don't feel as though I eat an unreasonable amount (mostly meat and fruit, with limited success adding in starch -- it can cause terrible gut pain and sleep disturbances now), but I'm still 40 lbs overweight and I don't know if I will ever be able to lose it without limiting portions/calories. I don't want to go down that path again.

"All in" did not work for me. I wish I hadn't done it.

 

[Sofia]

User Boris wrote that at refeeding thyroid supplement is needed.

 

[Vinny]

I'll add my "all in" experience to the mix: After trying and failing at the carnivore diet (extreme fatigue, acid reflux, gastroparesis), I went off the diet and started adding in fruit. I came across Stephanie Buttermore doing her "all in" experiment, and decided I should try that, too. The dates are not clear in my mind, but I think I went "all in" by at least July or August of 2019. Today, I am 40 lbs heavier than my lowest on the carnivore diet, and 30 lbs heavier than when I started "all in."

I am certain that I would be even heavier if I hadn't quit the "all in" mentality a little while back -- I was gaining weight rapidly, my joints were inflamed, my sleep was terrible, I was bloated, tired, brain fogged, depressed ... "All in" had me feeling terrible. I had convinced myself that perhaps my food sensitivities were all in my head, or were the result of too much restriction. Wrong. I added in dairy and other foods I had been avoiding and experienced terrible sleep, irritability, digestion, and mood.

Today, I am once again avoiding certain triggering foods, though I do not count calories. My appetite is not extreme, and I don't feel as though I eat an unreasonable amount (mostly meat and fruit, with limited success adding in starch -- it can cause terrible gut pain and sleep disturbances now), but I'm still 40 lbs overweight and I don't know if I will ever be able to lose it without limiting portions/calories. I don't want to go down that path again.

"All in" did not work for me. I wish I hadn't done it.

I'm not sure what else can you do for your lipid management and I'm afraid to give you advices, but you did very very well giving up the "all in" madness. Wish you enlightenment on your path.

 

[milkboi]

User Boris wrote that at refeeding thyroid supplement is needed.

Yeah, intuitively that makes sense. If you trashed your metabolism and then reseed in that state, all the extra calories will go to storage rather than to be burned for energy.

 

[opson123]

Yeah, intuitively that makes sense. If you trashed your metabolism and then reseed in that state, all the extra calories will go to storage rather than to be burned for energy.

I'm a 5'5" male and did a 4k calories refeed with heavy cream, whole milk, nesquik and mars bars and gained 0 kg. Though tbh, I reckon my gut is just so messed up most of the calories weren't absorbed.

 

[B___Danny]

There is a lot of fear mongering in this thread. Yet, I have not seen anyone debunk the rationality of the human body.
We know that one of the functions of the adipose organ is to store excess energy for times of famine. Holding onto excess fat is not optimal for human health, but the threat of starvation is worth the detriment. Does that mean that the answer is to provide the exact stimulus necessary to increase adipose tissue mass, in order to cure the problem? It is like telling someone who has excess muscle tissue that in order to get their muscles to shrink, they need to break them down in the gym. Sure in the moment they will shrink due to catabolism, but in the long run they will just grow back bigger. The answer is eating as many calories as you can, in the same way that we sleep as much as we can. Ray Peat has stated that there is a state of metabolism called the “wasteful” metabolic state. In that state we burn through energy at a high rate and are the healthiest we can be. It is the exact opposite of the diabetic and catabolic metabolism that caloric and macronutrient restriction encourages.
I understand there are negative symptoms associated with re-feeding However, Weight gain is not a negative symptom, and, to state it as one is insane. There are many ways to navigate the real symptoms that may arise, and surely some will have to take a different path due to celiacs disease and other digestive diseases and deformities. However, the one thing that is constant is eating until you can’t anymore in the same way that we sleep and the same way that we drink.

 

[Sofia]

The water gain reminds me the edema of B1 deficiency.

 

[charlie]

The water gain reminds me the edema of B1 deficiency.

 

[Sefton10]

Really good discussion on Buttermore’s “all in” approach as well as reversing some of the impacts of dieting and restriction more generally: Ep. 20: Intuitive Eating, 5,000 Calories per day, and Whether to go “All In”

These guys are heavily influenced by Ray Peat and I think they do an excellent job of breaking down some of the principles of a bioenergetic approach to metabolism and nutrition in this and other episodes. I have shared the podcast with various people coming from a typical “fitness” background to these ideas and it has helped them to start their own exploration.

 

[ursidae]

I’m attempting this refeeding thing and it’s becoming a dilemma. I can ignore the disfiguring skin problems it’s causing- it’s a known side effect but I get fever/headaches/muscle pain/joint pain every time I go over 2200 cal. I’m not like normal people who get bloated and gain visceral fat, I just get sick. I’m sure the colon busting starch/plant matter assault is playing a role so the alternative is to eat a ton of fat which is not very pro metabolic and will inevitably raise PUFA. I can’t even digest moderate amounts of fat but that can be taken care of with oxbile and enzymes. So what is it- keep ignoring the body’s signals in hopes that things will eventually normalise or load up on PUFA? These symptoms make me feel like I’m taking one step forward, two steps back in terms of overall health

 

[Vinny]

I’m attempting this refeeding thing and it’s becoming a dilemma. I can ignore the disfiguring skin problems it’s causing- it’s a known side effect but I get fever/headaches/muscle pain/joint pain every time I go over 2200 cal. I’m not like normal people who get bloated and gain visceral fat, I just get sick. I’m sure the colon busting starch/plant matter assault is playing a role so the alternative is to eat a ton of fat which is not very pro metabolic and will inevitably raise PUFA. I can’t even digest moderate amounts of fat but that can be taken care of with oxbile and enzymes. So what is it- keep ignoring the body’s signals in hopes that things will eventually normalise or load up on PUFA? These symptoms make me feel like I’m taking one step forward, two steps back in terms of overall health

You can try to replace some of the starch/fat with meat before you give up or spiral down to worse.

 

[Vileplume]

I’m attempting this refeeding thing and it’s becoming a dilemma. I can ignore the disfiguring skin problems it’s causing- it’s a known side effect but I get fever/headaches/muscle pain/joint pain every time I go over 2200 cal. I’m not like normal people who get bloated and gain visceral fat, I just get sick. I’m sure the colon busting starch/plant matter assault is playing a role so the alternative is to eat a ton of fat which is not very pro metabolic and will inevitably raise PUFA. I can’t even digest moderate amounts of fat but that can be taken care of with oxbile and enzymes. So what is it- keep ignoring the body’s signals in hopes that things will eventually normalise or load up on PUFA? These symptoms make me feel like I’m taking one step forward, two steps back in terms of overall health

How’s it going with the attempts to increase calories? I’m trying to attempt the same, while trying not to stress my gut, and I’ve found that ripe fruit and lots of juice helps.

 

[ursidae]

How’s it going with the attempts to increase calories? I’m trying to attempt the same, while trying not to stress my gut, and I’ve found that ripe fruit and lots of juice helps.

Part of the sickness was caused by supplementing too much vitamin D. I eat to appetite currently and I have the appetite of a mouse. I also don't get much sunlight or movement right now as its winter and I'm not willing to make myself even more insulin resistant with a sedentary lifestyle and excess carbs. I think the forcing down food till your body fixes itself approach is for robust people with good genes/gut health who got themselves in a mess by having a poor lifestyle which I'm not

 

[Vileplume]

Part of the sickness was caused by supplementing too much vitamin D. I eat to appetite currently and I have the appetite of a mouse. I also don't get much sunlight or movement right now as its winter and I'm not willing to make myself even more insulin resistant with a sedentary lifestyle and excess carbs. I think the forcing down food till your body fixes itself approach is for robust people with good genes/gut health who got themselves in a mess by having a poor lifestyle which I'm not

I also have the appetite of a mouse. It’s hard to tell if the reduced appetite is more resulting from digestive problems, or from a downshifted metabolism and a catabolic state. Eating more calories does seem to create a more stable energy, but it makes me so bloated! I think like you said, sunlight and low stress are just as essential. I always feel way worse during the school year (I’m a teacher)