Starch - The Delicious Devil

[Apple]

It absolutely does. It is even recommended mainstream for that purpose. Its a scale though. First you build muscle, then connective tissue then bones. Bones takes the longes so if you want to primarily build bones you need heavy static lifts for time. Like just standing for 10 minutes. Its time dependent with muscle being the fastest to form and bones the slowest. We are usually not calcium deficient its more of a metabolic and ph thing making Peat recommend that high calcium intake. Hunter gathereres f.ex dont have that high an intake at all.

so weightlifting builds bones too then?
even without calcium intake? what are bones made of when you build more bones via working out etc

I think exercises like jumping (basketball playing) or punching a bag are most effective for building bones. (high-impact exercise)

[The effects of jumping exercise on bones] - PubMed

Strain rate and strain magnitude are important factors when considering osteogenic response to the bone strain imposed by mechanical stress. Jumping is a high-impact exercise that includes these factors. Ten to twenty jumping repetitions per day can increase bone mass and strength. However, the...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Eberhardt]

I think exercises like jumping (basketball playing) or punching a bag are most effective for building bones. (high-impact exercise)

[The effects of jumping exercise on bones] - PubMed

Strain rate and strain magnitude are important factors when considering osteogenic response to the bone strain imposed by mechanical stress. Jumping is a high-impact exercise that includes these factors. Ten to twenty jumping repetitions per day can increase bone mass and strength. However, the...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

They work due to impact. John Wood of Ma. has been testing this for years now though. By weighted holds he has, confirmed by dexascans, build his already solid boneframe by a wooping 3,5% going into his 40s. I dont say the jumping doesnt work (see my previous entry) but its inferior. It follows logic as its directly stresstime dependent and its impossible to get the same amout of loading by jumping. Doing it with a heavy weightwest would of course increasw effectivity but youbwould have to do an insane amount of jumping like 7 hours a day to make the total amount of impact similar to holding maybe 500 pounds for like 15 minutes. I dont practice it as it is ao exhausting but the data looks very real

 

[Eberhardt]

how are we not calcium deficient then, with that little intake of hunter gatherers? they dont eat leaves, i thought they do eat the bones which actually have 2:1 calcium to phosphate, even more than milk.

I dont understand the question. But do you mean why those hunter-gatherersbare not deficient? I thinknits like with salt. What you need and what you can achieve with it is a different story. I also thought they might be eating bones but this is hardly observed at all in real life . We might hypthesize that this is a trait of modern huntergatherers and that the ancient one's did. But I doubt it. Its hard to grind it down to powder and there's no traces of it. I think the reason might have to do with context. Low stress, lots of sunlight, some physical activity. Maybe also that they are eating (on average) what would be a low vitamin A diet. All these and probably more decreases the requirementa for calcium. I also previously read something about some situations offsetting the phosphate problem but I cant remember but the point is basically; Context.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

In this interview with Ray Peat he talks about foods to avoid and why shortly after the 4:00 minutes mark.


View: https://youtu.be/96AFY50-J4A

 

[Sulcuscentralis]

There are a ton of testimonials like these all over this site.

Ok R&R - you convinced me to finally try it out. It’s some how just doesn’t feel right not to eat starches, probably from all the conditioning over the years. I always struggled with GI issues since a young age, I avoid gluten since it makes me feel like ***t, celiac disease still has to be excluded via biopsy (blood panel was negative. The only starch I eat is rice , but I feel like it makes me sleepy afterwards. The most I went without starch was one day. We’ll see how it goes. Thanks for the input! ?

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Ok R&R - you convinced me to finally try it out. It’s some how just doesn’t feel right not to eat starches, probably from all the conditioning over the years. I always struggled with GI issues since a young age, I avoid gluten since it makes me feel like ***t, celiac disease still has to be excluded via biopsy (blood panel was negative. The only starch I eat is rice , but I feel like it makes me sleepy afterwards. The most I went without starch was one day. We’ll see how it goes. Thanks for the input! ?

Ha! Ha! Ha! That's great! It is hard at first, you might even feel grumpy for a few days, but longer you stay off of them the less you think of them. I am anxious to see how things go!

 

[Jerkboy]

I am eating white rice everyday again. Does not cause issues to me. None. Especially in a low fat diet. In high fat diet + starch does cause too much insulin response I think.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

I am eating white rice everyday again. Does not cause issues to me. None. Especially in a low fat diet. In high fat diet + starch does cause too much insulin response I think.

When you are younger you can get away with a lot more. I lived on starchy carbs most of my life. They catch up to you eventually with unwanted fat and for many, but not myself, they are a big culprit in digestive problems. Wheat and oats cause teeth and bone problems and the PUFA's and phosphorus is aging to the skin and hair. They just aren't worth it to me. I went grain free 10 years ago and am WAY better for it.

 

[Jerkboy]

When you are younger you can get away with a lot more. I lived on starchy carbs most of my life. They catch up to you eventually with unwanted fat and for many, but not myself, they are a big culprit in digestive problems. Wheat and oats cause teeth and bone problems and the PUFA's and phosphorus is aging to the skin and hair. They just aren't worth it to me. I went grain free 10 years ago and am WAY better for it.

That's good. I just doubt starch is the issue itself. I think there might be more to it. Starch (in this case white rice) for me are calming. While fruit is stimulating. Not always in a good way. Depending on the person this can be good or bad I guess.

I also eat bread sometimes (once in a few months) and it never hurts me unless metabolism is low. I have been in low and fast metabolism. Fast metabolism can use almost anything as fuel. Like my friend who is skinny with a bit of muscle, he eats absolutely everything and burns it off just like that. Including PUFA, bread, pasta, sushi, pizza, McDonalds, etc. He is also very succesful in life. I think when your baseline metabolism is good then it does not matter much. The body will use everything as fuel. He does not exercise at all and actually dislikes it. Still has muscle and super lean. He is now 31/32.

When it is low you will notice all the bad effects. Perhaps this is some type of feedback system of the body to get you out of low metabolism.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

That's good. I just doubt starch is the issue itself. I think there might be more to it. Starch (in this case white rice) for me are calming. While fruit is stimulating. Not always in a good way. Depending on the person this can be good or bad I guess.

I also eat bread sometimes (once in a few months) and it never hurts me unless metabolism is low. I have been in low and fast metabolism. Fast metabolism can use almost anything as fuel. Like my friend who is skinny with a bit of muscle, he eats absolutely everything and burns it off just like that. Including PUFA, bread, pasta, sushi, pizza, McDonalds, etc. He is also very succesful in life. I think when your baseline metabolism is good then it does not matter much. The body will use everything as fuel. He does not exercise at all and actually dislikes it. Still has muscle and super lean. He is now 31/32.

When it is low you will notice all the bad effects. Perhaps this is some type of feedback system of the body to get you out of low metabolism.

When I was in my 20's and 30's I was like your friend. I could eat anything and everything and 3rd helping of it too and was enviously skinny for it, but that abuse catches up with most times. That saying "I wish I knew now what I didn't know then" applies here. Just because you don't feel anything bad doesn't mean it is doing good. Your rice isn't gonna cause you harm when you are young, or maybe even when you are older, but bet you a dollar, your friend is not only gonna look aged faster than you with his diet, but he will have some issues from it too.

 

[Jerkboy]

When I was in my 20's and 30's I was like your friend. I could eat anything and everything and 3rd helping of it too and was enviously skinny for it, but that abuse catches up with most times. That saying "I wish I knew now what I didn't know then" applies here. Just because you don't feel anything bad doesn't mean it is doing good. Your rice isn't gonna cause you harm when you are young, or maybe even when you are older, but bet you a dollar, your friend is not only gonna look aged faster than you with his diet, but he will have some issues from it too.

His dad also looks great for his age (full head of hair, all color, good skin) who is mid-50 and eats similar to him. Incl. high PUFA Chinese food, fried food, meat, cheese, rice, bread, milk etc. I think they might just be gifted with good thyroid genetics. Plus their mood and energy is high. Even his dad.

When your thyroid is high you burn through PUFA quickly. Only in hypothyroidism you will collect PUFA. I also think the same can be said for starch. If metabolism is slow then it hurts you. Maybe by feeding too much bacteria/SIBO/candida because it sits in your stomach for too long.

BTW you can be skinnier with a ***t thyroid.

I do not think starch is bad. I think the underlying condition is bad. So you can eat a diet to avoid these weaknesses of the body (cut out starch, PUFA, subtypes of foods) which yes is very helpful. But to call starch the devil is shortsighted.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

His dad also looks great for his age (full head of hair, all color, good skin) who is mid-50 and eats similar to him. Incl. high PUFA Chinese food, fried food, meat, cheese, rice, bread, milk etc. I think they might just be gifted with good thyroid genetics. Plus their mood and energy is high. Even his dad.

When your thyroid is high you burn through PUFA quickly. Only in hypothyroidism you will collect PUFA. I also think the same can be said for starch. If metabolism is slow then it hurts you. Maybe by feeding too much bacteria/SIBO/candida because it sits in your stomach for too long.

BTW you can be skinnier with a ***t thyroid.

I do not think starch is bad. I think the underlying condition is bad. So you can eat a diet to avoid these weaknesses of the body (cut out starch, PUFA, subtypes of foods) which yes is very helpful. But to call starch the devil is shortsighted.

I certainly don't think starch is bad either if you aren't fat, sick or poor, but overall if you can afford to eat higher quality then why not? Wheat and oats are terrible for teeth and bones, taking nutrients out of the body. Why waste calcium balancing a negative? Besides feeling satisfied they add nothing to good health. Filling a void with nothing when it could have been some good protein seems counter productive for good health. I personally can't say I know anyone over 50 that has good teeth, looks young, is active and has no health problems and eats the diet you describe your friend and his dad eating, not one.

 

[Dr. B]

In this interview with Ray Peat he talks about foods to avoid and why shortly after the 4:00 minutes mark.


View: https://youtu.be/96AFY50-J4A

could you summarize it please

there was more I wanted to discuss with you or Jerkboy, but i totally forgot. it was something related to the recent posts above

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

could you summarize it please

there was more I wanted to discuss with you or Jerkboy, but i totally forgot. it was something related to the recent posts above

He was asked what safe foods he recommends and he said milk, cheese without enzymes, eggs, low starch fruits, meats and fish not high in PUFA's, and well cooked vegetables, but he said no grains, legumes or seed related foods like nuts.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

"One of the factors promoting excess cortisol production is intestinal irritation, causing absorption of endotoxin and serotonin. Fermentable fibers (including pectins and fructooligosaccharides) support the formation of bacterial toxins, and can cause animals to become anxious and aggressive. Fed to horses, some types of fiber increase the amount of serotonin circulating in the blood. Grains, beans, and other seeds contain fermentable fibers that can promote intestinal irritation.

The liver has several ways to detoxify endotoxin and serotonin, but these can fail as a result of poor nutrition and hypothyroidism." -Ray Peat

 

[Dr. B]

"One of the factors promoting excess cortisol production is intestinal irritation, causing absorption of endotoxin and serotonin. Fermentable fibers (including pectins and fructooligosaccharides) support the formation of bacterial toxins, and can cause animals to become anxious and aggressive. Fed to horses, some types of fiber increase the amount of serotonin circulating in the blood. Grains, beans, and other seeds contain fermentable fibers that can promote intestinal irritation.

The liver has several ways to detoxify endotoxin and serotonin, but these can fail as a result of poor nutrition and hypothyroidism." -Ray Peat

Ray mentioned tropical fish in warm waters having high SFA, low pufa. Which fish are these. which contain mostly saturated fats? is it Piranha fish or something? im trying to find which fish are high saturated fat. they sound tasty.

What do horses usually eat? Dont they like eating grass, which would have fermentable fibers?

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Ray mentioned tropical fish in warm waters having high SFA, low pufa. Which fish are these. which contain mostly saturated fats? is it Piranha fish or something? im trying to find which fish are high saturated fat. they sound tasty.

What do horses usually eat? Dont they like eating grass, which would have fermentable fibers?

Grass is more like lettuce, not nearly as tough to break down as grains. Animals need more than one stomach and have to to chew a long time to break them down.

I wonder what warm water fish we might be able to get our hands on? I will pass on the piranha!

 

[Dr. B]

Grass is more like lettuce, not nearly as tough to break down as grains. Animals need more than one stomach and have to to chew a long time to break them down.

I wonder what warm water fish we might be able to get our hands on? I will pass on the piranha!

are white breads/refined grains still tough to break down? white rice, pastas too?
are horses ruminants?

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

are white breads/refined grains still tough to break down? white rice, pastas too?
are horses ruminants?

When I first started "Peating", 5 years ago, I heard an interview where RP said white bread is preferred to whole grain wheat bread. The more refined the starch the easier it is to digest. Make sure you butter that bread too!

 

[Eberhardt]

Horses are not ruminants. the lettuce analogy is only true if you are a horse or gazelle. The split between grass eaters and our line of mammals is many many milions years old. Because grass is so hard to digest it needs special adaptions. They have enzymes that primates, f.ex dont have. (this is a very significant mammalian split which is a long topic - theres good youtube videos on it (lectures). But if you are a cow or horse it's easy.

And white rice is easily digested usually - the problem from peats perspective is mainly the absence of fructose and vitamins combined with the risk of starch persorption if the integrit of the intestinal wall is compromized (which is often is in modern western humans presumably).