Starch, Potatoes, And Body Temperature

[jaketthomas]

I'm on Day 12, I believe, of this Ray Peat inspired diet. I've been reading for the longest time that potatoes are OK on this diet. Not OK for me. In fact, nothing I've consumed on this diet so far as made me feel worse. Not only do the potatoes make me feel like I have some foreign bacteria attached to my stomach and intestines, but my body temperate also plummets. I've been measuring my temperature non-stop since I began this diet. I really like what I've been seeing and experiencing, aside from the potatoes.

Last time I consumed potatoes: before the meal 98.2 degrees (which is very high for me -- usually in the 97's), and a few hours later, 96.8, freezing cold hands, feet and nose. Had to turn the heat up to 74 and wrap myself in a blanket to feel normal. About a half hour later of wrapping myself up like a mummy, I was 97.7. That was my dinner last night, and I still haven't got past 97.7 today. I can't believe how badly the potatoes stressed my body.

Lesson learned. Does anyone else have these kinds of reactions with potatoes? I had white rice too, and had minimal if any, negative reaction. Potatoes were like poison though.

Oh, and as a side note, the food that raises my body temp faster than anything else I've eaten? Turkey Hill Natural Chocolate Ice Cream. 4 Ingredients: Cream, Skim Milk, Sugar, Cocoa. Shoots my body temp up like I just took thyroid or something, lol. Very interesting, considering it's a cold food. You'd think it would cool my body, but not so.

 

[jyb]

Potato is okay only for some people and if very well cooked (like a puree).

Cold food can increase your temperature just because the body needs to warm up to digest it at a certain temperature and may be unrelated to your metabolism. This is why drinking cold water in hot weather can be counterproductive.

 

[narouz]

Very interesting, Jake.
People's reactions to potatoes would seem to vary.
We've had some posters here--seems like Charlie was one--
who said that eating potatoes (well, pretty sure butter and salt was in the picture too)
really warmed him up--raised temps. Can't recall about pulse.

I'm not arguing for potato consumption!
If you look around the board you'll see that I post a lot of
what seems to me to be pretty negative stuff from Peat about starches.
But, trying to objective, I'm just noting I've seen varied comments about effects on individual metabolisms.

Peat describes one of the first lab experiments he did in college
where the professor tried to impress upon them how rapidly starch is digested.
The class fed a rat a blob of corn starch, as I recall.
Then pretty quickly thereafter--minutes--dissected the rat,
and could find no trace of the starch
(I've assumed Peat meant in the digestive tract).

Because of that story, I've had the general view
that starch--which is pure glucose, right?--converts to energy very quickly.
That would seem to be a good thing.
But Peat seemed to agree in the recent KMUD interview
that starch suppresses metabolism.
And then he noted the problem with starch grains slipping into the blood stream--
being "persorbed" I believe is the technical term--
and wreaking havoc in various ways.

Danny Roddy did a nice explanation, I think, of why starch burning for energy
is not great for cellular respiration.
I'll try to find that.
I confess my ignorance as to understanding and retaining
Peat's chemical/biological explanations of why and how
using starch for fuel is not very good or even bad.
But it seems pretty clear to me that a balanced, full reading of Peat's stuff
reflects at least a decidely lukewarm attitude toward starch
and maybe even a negative one.

 

[narouz]

Here's a bit of that Danny Roddy starch v. sugar and metabolism analysis:
http://www.dannyroddy.com/2012/5/21/carbon-dioxide-the-real-reason-safe-starches-are-a-joke.html

"When deciding whether to obtain carbohydrate from "safe starches," low-calorie vegetable matter, or fruit, consider that sugar (especially fructose) is supportive of CO2 production:

"It is concluded that both fructose and glucose-induced thermogenesis occurs exclusively in extrasplanchnic tissues. Compared with glucose, fructose ingestion is accompanied by a more marked rise in CO2 production, possibly reflecting an increased extrasplanchnic oxidation of lactate and an accumulation of heat in the body."[-Ray Peat]

Moreover, when glucose oxidation is inhibited (diabetes, Randle cycle), fructose provides pyruvic acid for oxidative energy:

"One of the points at which fatty acids suppress the use of glucose is at the point at which it is converted into fructose, in the process of glycolysis. When fructose is available, it can by-pass this barrier to the use of glucose, and continue to provide pyruvic acid for continuing oxidative metabolism, and if the mitochondria themselves aren't providing sufficient energy, it can leave the cell as lactate, allowing continuing glycolytic energy production. In the brain, this can sustain life in an emergency." - Ray Peat

 

[gretchen]

I have a potato boiling. I'm thinking maybe I might force myself to stop stocking them.

 

[jaketthomas]

I've read the research on starch vs. sugar, and just based on my body's reaction, I'm sticking with the sugar. White rice actually digests OK for me, and my body temp stays steady, so that will be backup option for when I eat out, and such. Potatoes, pure poison. Don't know why. I'm not going to question it. I'll just avoid them like the plague until I get my body temperature until control.

Seems like a combo of fruit/dairy seems to stabilize my body temperature the best. I had red grapes and cheese, which had a highly favorable reaction, so were dates and 2% milk. And Turkey Hill Naturals Ice Cream (no gums) works very well, also. I have seen Peat call his recommended diet a "milk, fruit & meat" diet, which is certainly what is working best for my body.

I find that juicier fruits mix well with cheese, and dried or dry fruits seem to mix well with milk. e.g. dates with milk, grapes with cheese, OJ with cheese, raisins with milk, etc. Coconut Oil seems to go with every meal, regardless of what it is.

But yeah, I plan on avoiding potatoes until my body temp is 98.6 or above on a regular basis. I'm a steady 97.7-98.2 right now. When I first began 13 days ago, I was a steady 97.2, so I'm already correcting my body, in only two weeks.

 

[charlie]

Jake, you really are on the ball!

 

[jaketthomas]

Jake, you really are on the ball!

Haha, thanks. I've been studying health and nutrition for 15 years, so I'm passionate about it. But, after eating "healthy" and "clean" for all of these years, it got to the point where I started feeling so cold, that I strongly considered moving to Florida, Arizona, or Las Vegas. It didn't make sense to me how I was so freezing cold all the time, despite having good skin, looking young, and generally feeling good. The low body temp and shaking with coldness really alarmed me, which is how I eventually stumbled upon this diet.

What all started it off for me was one night where my heat went out, and I woke up feeling like I was going to die. My fiancee was a little bit cold, but I was shaking like my life was on the line. She said to me, "Honey, it's cold in here but not THAT cold". My body temperature was 95.6. I was actually nervous, because of how hard I was shivering. I was .6 away from having "hypothermia", and I was in a 58 degree room, under the warm sheets!

From that point on, I began looking for answers. I couldn't live like that anymore. I stumbled upon Danny Roddy's blog, then to Ray Peat's website, then over here. It's exciting to see a lot of people in the same boat as me, and all these people who normalized their body temps through this diet.

 

[charlie]

Back in the "swine flu" days I was checking my temp. And one of the "symptoms" of swine flu was a much lower body temp. I was 100% positive I had the swine flu!

 

[jaketthomas]

Lol, I just thought I had "circulation problems", which didn't make sense to me, because I did everything "right". Ate a ridiculously pure diet, meditated, exercised, juiced, got enough rest, have good relationships, etc. My "7 pillars of health" were all in alignment, yet I was freezing cold. I looked healthy, but secretly felt like ***t. No one knew (except for my fiancee) how bad I felt. People always asked me for health tips and advice. I have good muscle mass/tone, good skin, good aura about me, but meanwhile, I would get home, turn the heat on 74, put on thermal socks, and wrap a blanket around me, nearly every single night. Ridiculous.

 

[pboy]

jake that's awesome you've produced results that fast....I'm recovering from being freezing all the time and having no appetite/digestion, low energy...ect
so its nice to hear about benefits being had rather quickly. Can you notice a significant difference in the half a degree or so body temp increase? Like in the sense of a general
feeling of well being? Also about the potatoes...a lot of people are allergic to nightshades...I don't think its a rigid thing like you are or you aren't allergic, its more of a how tolerant are you compared to how much solanine is in that particular potato, so in a sense we probably all have a little allergy to them, some more than others. You might as well not include them if you don't need to...eat stuff that gives back a wam fuzzy feeling lol...at least that's what I'm trying to do and it seems to be helping.

 

[jaketthomas]

Pboy, I notice a big difference in the half degree body temperature change I've had. I notice I can think more clearly, I have more energy, I wake up more refreshed, sleep through the night, and the dark circles under my eyes have been cut in half.

I also don't feel as bloated and gassy as I used to. Hardly at all, actually.

I feel like my results have been so fast, because I've been following extremely healthy living for the last 15 years. My body is pretty pure. I just kept on eating foods and drinking drinks that shut down my thyroid and messed with my hormones. I drank 3-6 cups of Green Tea per day, I pretty much ate zero dairy, ate a relatively low fat diet, I used to eat a lot of salads, and drank tons of Green Juices. I had broccoli every day, sometimes multiple times per day. Used flax and fish oils as my main sources of fat. It was a horror show, from a cold body standpoint, but it was what I was trained to believe was a healthy diet.

The funny thing is, it WAS healthy for my body, at a time. I felt invincible 10 years ago, but my body just kept on getting colder and colder, and more out of balance as time went on.

 

[Ray-Z]

Potatoes drenched in coconut oil (or butter) and heavily salted are an extremely effective method of raising my pulse and temps, even in the early a.m., when I'm coldest. (Don't get me started about the taste of home-made hash browns or mashed potatoes, or I will quickly veer into food porn.)

The catch is that taters also make my gut bacteria party like it's 1999.

So while I miss the warm glow I get from potatoes, I am officially a tater hater.

Narouz has done a good job of collecting Peat's criticisms of starch in this and other threads.

 

[jaketthomas]

Yup, I totally agree with the 1999.

I've officially given up coffee on this diet as well. After nearly 3 weeks on the diet and measuring my body temperature, I've realized that coffee a) lowers my body temperature and b) makes me just feel "off". 3 days without it, and there's no looking back. It's gone from my diet for good.

Coffee and potatoes are 2 foods on the Peat List that have been scratched off mine. I also have to be careful with Orange Juice, because it has a tendency towards giving me heartburn. I did an experiment. No potatoes, coffee, or OJ for 3 days, but followed the rest of the dietary guidelines, and I feel like a new man.

There's no one sized fits all diet for everyone. There will be hits and misses for people, on most "Peat Approved" foods. I see plenty of people saying they don't digest milk well. I digest it great; cheese as well. But coffee, potatoes, and OJ are iffy, at best.

 

[slayers]

Hopefully you will heal and be able to handle normal foods one day...
I eat peat most of the time but eating like an entire pizza and bag of potatoe chips last night made me feel fine and actually rose my body temps.

 

[Asimov]

Don't forget, cortisol can raise your body temperatures as well. So can getting a physical illness such as a viral or bacterial infection.

Don't get into the trap of chasing an elusive body temp number at all costs.

 

[Mittir]

I had similar experience with potato. Peat recommends cooked potato juice without starch, not the whole potato.
He described many situations where cooked potato juice has cured incurable diseases in days. I tried cooked potato juice
and it gives an instant energy boost and deep resting sleep. But i always had mild stomach upset with it. I think it could be the Solanine. I read that potatoes can have this toxin even when there is no visible green coloring. So the whole problem could stem from toxic potato. I had to stop eating cooked potato juice. All my health symptoms get worse whenever i consume potatoes in any form. I get least symptoms when i cook potato for 40 minutes and then fry those in butter or coconut oil. I do not suffer any pronounced problems when i eat rice. But i feel my best when i totally avoid all kind of starch.
My temperature shoot from 96.5 to 97.8 within weeks of starting peat style eating. Can you give a list and amount of food you consume in a day?

 

[narouz]

As I noted over in another thread
a poster said that
1. Peat said a pound of potatoes had about 30 grams of protein
2. Cron-O-Meter said about 10 grams.
(I think I'm remembering those numbers correctly).

(The discrepancy might be explained by the fact that Peat seems to refer to
all the keto acids in Potato Extract as proteins,
when I guess they are not, really.
They can be turned into protein very quickly though, according to Peat.)

If Peat's figure is correct,
that means a pound of potatoes gives you about the same amount of protein as a quart of milk.
That kinduv shocks me (if it's true).
I know Peat says the protein in potato is very high quality,
but I'd always assumed there wasn't a very high quantity.

If you make Potato Extract Soup, one pound of potatoes--
which I'm roughly conceiving of as two good-sized russets--
will probably only yield less than a cup of juice.
If that small amount of juice contains as much protein as a quart of milk...that's pretty cool!

And it makes me want to re-examine potatoes.

I still tend to think that eating the entire potato,
even if long-cooked and well-buttered,
would be a bad Peatian bargain if consumed as a big part of the diet:
too much starch and fiber.
And then there is the weight gain potential from all the butter one should eat with that starch and fiber.

But, as I say in the other thread ("Starch's Evil" )
part of re-examining potatoes means re-examining those rather vague statements
about the starch and fiber.
Peat says that long-cooking and well-buttering makes them less harmful.
Questions:
1. Do cooking and buttering reduce the harmful effects of both starch and fiber?
2. How much less harmful does it make them?
3. Do cooking and buttering negate or reduce the persorption threat?
3. Do cooking and buttering negate or reduce the bacteria haven problem?
4. Do cooking and buttering negate or reduce the obesity-promoting potential?

To thoroughly weigh the pros and cons of potatoes,
I would think we need more detailed answers to those questions.

 

[Jenn]

Just some thoughts....
How are you preparing the potato?
What is you temp first thing in the AM? How about after 20 minutes drinking just a little OJ?

I had a problem with my body temperature dropping after eating too. My adrenals were keeping my blood sugar up instead of my food. When I ate something I could actually digest, they would turn off and my temp would fall a few degrees and I would get very sleepy.

 

[jaketthomas]

Mittir,

I agree, I also do best when I avoid starches. Only difference is white rice, which I seem to digest flawlessly. My diet has changed from day to day, but I always make sure to follow the guidelines of eating fat/protein/sugar together in every meal. I keep my chicken intake to a minimum, but last nights dinner was a large chicken breast, a large glass of OJ, and I took about 1 1/2 TBSP of refined coconut oil, straight in my mouth, and washed it down with the OJ.

My evening snack/meal was about 1/3 of a 1.5 quart container size of Turkey Hill Natural Ice Cream. 100% natural, no gums, only 4 ingredients (cream, milk, sugar, cocoa).

I've recognized that some stuff on the Peat Approved list doesn't jive with me, such as potatoes, and other things not on the list, such as black tea, makes me feel great -- way better than coffee. Green Tea lowers my body temp, and seems to freeze my digestion, but Black Tea (I use Nambarrie Tea from the UK), has beneficial effects across the board. OJ is hit or miss. Can give me heartburn if I drink too much, so I limit it to a glass or so per day.

I'm trying to limit my fluid intake, after reading a series of interesting articles about drinking past thirst, and the negative effects it has on digestion and thyroid. I'm trying not to pee more than 3-4 times per day, and making sure it's bright every time. Clear urine would mean I'm drinking way too much.