Spirituality Wrecked Me. Can I Ever Heal?

[redsun]

Hello all,

last three years I spent aroun 1-2h a day meditating at the same time staying in strict celibacy. My health improved a ton, I enjoyed such lifestyle and thought it's all roses and butterflies until one evening enormous amount of energy generated in my body and acted as some sort of electro shock to my psyche and body.

That happened on December and since then I've been living in a hell. I've been hospitalized in mental ward because I was averaging 1-2h of sleep at night for full month and my body went into katatonic mode. Felt like my nerves were "locking up". There I've been diagnosed as severely depressed and fed a lot of Ssri's, benzos and even antipsychotics. I quit most medications as I was barely alive from them but still on single pill of Ssri. Needless to say things did not improve at all and I've been living corpse with lots of torturing symptoms.

* I guess it's severe depression. I feel suicidal half of the day regardless of what I do. Take a walk, speak with my mother or occasionally meet friend. No pleasure ever just feeling horrible. At worst it often feels as I am breathing in toxins or chemicals.

*Major cognitive impairment that is quite similar to early onset of dementia. Vocabulary and short term memory vanished. It seems I also "lost thinking". Nothing creative, humorous or logical comes up in my head. It is usually some nonsense spinning all the time. When I have conversations they are really dry and not flow or liveness there. Often times it's one liners.

*This one is going to be difficult to explain but it's almost like I can't keep up with external view. Like all surroundings and what I see lags a micro second behind which makes it difficult to be on point. I am always confused and awkward when I need to respond by doing something (picking x or navigating my way in a more crowded areas for example).

*Energy issues. I never know when wave of fatigue hits me and I will need to lie in bed to catch breathing. Able to walk about 12km on a good day but not fit to work anymore.

*Insomnia.

*Overreactive nervous system. I never feel relaxed or at ease. Constantly on guard.

*Changes in personality for worse. I've became timid, withdrawn selfish, lazy, irritable, not caring. Wasn't exactly Mother Terresa prior but this new version of me is something like 30 years old booze addict living with his parents.

We did MRI scan because I thought it looks really brain injury alike but scan was fine.

I used to follow Peat sort of intuitively, especially when my health improved but currently my appetite is really low. I don't digest food as fast as I used to and not craving sweet/sugar like before.

Guys, this situation looks really hopeless but perhaps I can at least fix part where joy and energy comes back? This is really unbearable state to be living in and I don't know where to start if it's even healable.

If anybody could point some directions that would be great.

Thank you for reading

First off, I hope you have become self aware of the reason why you are in this mess. Save yourself from ever experimenting with the spiritual woo woo ever again if you learn anything at all from this experience. Celibacy, meditation, literal nonsense. I used to be that guy. Meditation isnt necessarily bad except raising GABA too much by being too calm and relaxed because of meditation turns you into a vegetable. GABA basically reduces every other neurotransmitter in the body, good and bad.

Your spiritual endeavors, despite temporarily improving your quality of life(I experienced the same improvement) lead you to denying your unconscious mind. Call it you shadow, your animal mind, lizard brain etc. Denial of the self through celibacy is one of the strongest and worst things you can do to yourself. This is stupidity #1(not criticizing, but emphasizing). Meditation is okay but depending on how its done can leave you a vegetable. God only knows what you have done but to put it simply...

Likely based on your symptoms, dopamine deficiency, possibly general catecholamine deficiency. Issues with time passing are also dopamine related. Dopamine speeds up the internal clock, causing everything to happen faster. I cant exactly explain that specific symptom but dopamine likely plays a part. Vital for brain function, drive, energy, social interaction(dry conversation is a big red flag), etc. Research yourself for more on it.

General advice that will actually work is you need to make a 180 turn around. Likely as those three years went on you became more ungrounded(denial of the physical, the self, one's desire) and "spiritual". You likely changed your behavior, thought processes, personality big time basing around whatever spirituality you were into. As time goes on when doing things like this that is a natural consequence.

You need to ground yourself. You need to become one with the physical. All those desires you shunned you need to pull them back in. All this spirituality bull**** needs to be shoved away in favor of the material world. All it does is disconnect you even though it is advertised as doing the opposite. Eat, sleep, have fun, have sex. Weightlifting is also helpful, one of the most physically grounding things you can do. Have a drive that exists in the real world. Dream job, dream home, dream life(real life, not spiritual). Live for the sake of it, enjoy life do not deny it. Become unapologetically free of religious/spiritual rules of behavior, thought, impure thoughts etc.

Im not saying live life with no rules. Problem is you tipped the scales of your psyche too far into the abstract/spiritual/religious/inhibition crap and you need to tip it the other way. Debauchery is likely the key. Only after that can you seek balance. You lack joy and energy because you have lost a drive for living as a consequence of your choices. Now there are also nutritional things you can do to help with anhedonia(lack of pleasure) and energy.

Look into supplementing L-Tyrosine, B6(P5P, active B6), Vitamin C, other catecholamine cofactors to help you help yourself so you can start living again. Meditation is big no-no at least for now. Listen to exciting music instead. Get hobbies, do things you enjoy, even if they are "shallow" or materialistic in nature. I hope for you to recover from this. Life without joy or pleasure is no life at all.

 

[lampofred]

Your spiritual endeavors, despite temporarily improving your quality of life(I experienced the same improvement) lead you to denying your unconscious mind. Call it you shadow, your animal mind, lizard brain etc. Denial of the self through celibacy is one of the strongest and worst things you can do to yourself. This is stupidity #1(not criticizing, but emphasizing). Meditation is okay but depending on how its done can leave you a vegetable. God only knows what you have done but to put it simply...

My interpretation of the purpose of "spiritual" stuff like celibacy and meditation isn't to deny the unconscious mind but to purify it. Step 1 is eliminating "lower" desires, which necessarily weakens the unconscious mind and strengths the conscious mind, but then Step 2 is no thought meditation to weaken the conscious mind and allow yourself to operate from your unconscious mind again, except now the animalistic "proliferative" parts of your unconscious mind have been removed.

It's a hard process but I don't know if you should completely stay away from it. There's really nothing otherworldy about it, it is just a process to restore the quality of brain functioning to that of a child.

 

[Uselis]

May I ask what type of meditation were you doing? There are so many kinds that we could only generalize unless we know a little more.

Also, what else were you doing, as far as diet and your daily activities?

By the way, I think you are conflating your physical condition with spirituality, according to the title of this post.

I've been doing Shamatha - Vipassana type of meditation focusing on finger index observing as many sensations as possible. On the evening "it" happened I had erection and energy seemed to appeared from there as absurd as it sounds. Wasn't even meditating formally that evening. Just took several deep breaths and "it" happened.

My diet was pretty Peat like but activities was mostly only walking and spending time in silence. Too much...

 

[Uselis]

@Uselis

I think it's important to ask yourself why you began the meditation and celibacy in the first place?

Was it to gain some type of superpower or elevated state of being? To become more than what you are?

I don't have much practice with meditation, I pray in small amounts not as much as I should, but I think your heart's reason for going about something is often more important than the physical activity itself

Ehh... I wasn't happy with my life, health and myself in general so this looked like promising answer. As time went by I thought I just want to live relatively simple monk alike lifestyle. Certainly wasn't trying to walk on water or through walls ☺

 

[Uselis]

When this shock happened, were you living with or spending time with someone who was depressed?
What is your cultural background?

I am from Eastern Europe, Lithuania. No depressed people been around although I probably was becoming depressed myself.

 

[Uselis]

First off, I hope you have become self aware of the reason why you are in this mess. Save yourself from ever experimenting with the spiritual woo woo ever again if you learn anything at all from this experience. Celibacy, meditation, literal nonsense. I used to be that guy. Meditation isnt necessarily bad except raising GABA too much by being too calm and relaxed because of meditation turns you into a vegetable. GABA basically reduces every other neurotransmitter in the body, good and bad.

Your spiritual endeavors, despite temporarily improving your quality of life(I experienced the same improvement) lead you to denying your unconscious mind. Call it you shadow, your animal mind, lizard brain etc. Denial of the self through celibacy is one of the strongest and worst things you can do to yourself. This is stupidity #1(not criticizing, but emphasizing). Meditation is okay but depending on how its done can leave you a vegetable. God only knows what you have done but to put it simply...

Likely based on your symptoms, dopamine deficiency, possibly general catecholamine deficiency. Issues with time passing are also dopamine related. Dopamine speeds up the internal clock, causing everything to happen faster. I cant exactly explain that specific symptom but dopamine likely plays a part. Vital for brain function, drive, energy, social interaction(dry conversation is a big red flag), etc. Research yourself for more on it.

General advice that will actually work is you need to make a 180 turn around. Likely as those three years went on you became more ungrounded(denial of the physical, the self, one's desire) and "spiritual". You likely changed your behavior, thought processes, personality big time basing around whatever spirituality you were into. As time goes on when doing things like this that is a natural consequence.

You need to ground yourself. You need to become one with the physical. All those desires you shunned you need to pull them back in. All this spirituality bull**** needs to be shoved away in favor of the material world. All it does is disconnect you even though it is advertised as doing the opposite. Eat, sleep, have fun, have sex. Weightlifting is also helpful, one of the most physically grounding things you can do. Have a drive that exists in the real world. Dream job, dream home, dream life(real life, not spiritual). Live for the sake of it, enjoy life do not deny it. Become unapologetically free of religious/spiritual rules of behavior, thought, impure thoughts etc.

Im not saying live life with no rules. Problem is you tipped the scales of your psyche too far into the abstract/spiritual/religious/inhibition crap and you need to tip it the other way. Debauchery is likely the key. Only after that can you seek balance. You lack joy and energy because you have lost a drive for living as a consequence of your choices. Now there are also nutritional things you can do to help with anhedonia(lack of pleasure) and energy.

Look into supplementing L-Tyrosine, B6(P5P, active B6), Vitamin C, other catecholamine cofactors to help you help yourself so you can start living again. Meditation is big no-no at least for now. Listen to exciting music instead. Get hobbies, do things you enjoy, even if they are "shallow" or materialistic in nature. I hope for you to recover from this. Life without joy or pleasure is no life at all.

I wish it would be so simple now. I am afraid I did so much damage that going back is not going to happen soon. If at all. I have problems with sleeping, eating and having fun in general. Insomnia, lack of appetite and ahedonia took over. Occasionally I lift small weights but that exhausts me very quickly now. As far as dream life goes is hard to imagine anything else except getting better when you feel that horrible. Not saying you're wrong, I appreciate advice but I want to feel at least something positive cause as you said life without pleasure indeed is no life at all.

Thanks

 

[redsun]

I wish it would be so simple now. I am afraid I did so much damage that going back is not going to happen soon. If at all. I have problems with sleeping, eating and having fun in general. Insomnia, lack of appetite and ahedonia took over. Occasionally I lift small weights but that exhausts me very quickly now. As far as dream life goes is hard to imagine anything else except getting better when you feel that horrible. Not saying you're wrong, I appreciate advice but I want to feel at least something positive cause as you said life without pleasure indeed is no life at all.

Thanks

Look at the end of my post, dopamine is the prime neurotransmitter involved in reward, pleasure, etc. That would be your best bet to help crawl out of your anhedonia if only a little bit. There are many ways though, not just a few supplements:

115+ Ways To Increase Tyrosine Hydroxylase (And What Decreases It)

55 ways to increase dopamine

The 2nd link is from a blog that belongs to one our members here. If I didn't mention already I had extreme success for myself for anhedonia, lack of joy etc. by increasing dopamine through many methods. Yours is likely low, leading to an aversive state. The other two levels of dopamine are seeking and euphoria. You need to bring your dopamine up to the seeking state so you can start "seeking" for your reward in life again.

 

[Uselis]

Look at the end of my post, dopamine is the prime neurotransmitter involved in reward, pleasure, etc. That would be your best bet to help crawl out of your anhedonia if only a little bit. There are many ways though, not just a few supplements:

115+ Ways To Increase Tyrosine Hydroxylase (And What Decreases It)

55 ways to increase dopamine

The 2nd link is from a blog that belongs to one our members here. If I didn't mention already I had extreme success for myself for anhedonia, lack of joy etc. by increasing dopamine through many methods. Yours is likely low, leading to an aversive state. The other two levels of dopamine are seeking and euphoria. You need to bring your dopamine up to the seeking state so you can start "seeking" for your reward in life again.

I ordered pregnenolone already so will start from there. Hopefully as other poster mentioned it will help to quit Ssri which I assume doesn't help with dopamine at all.
Btw, could you share what combo worked for you if that's not too personal?

Thank you

 

[redsun]

I ordered pregnenolone already so will start from there. Hopefully as other poster mentioned it will help to quit Ssri which I assume doesn't help with dopamine at all.
Btw, could you share what combo worked for you if that's not too personal?

Thank you

Yes it is important to look into tapering off the SSRI as soon as possible. Preg is a great start. Personally, a high protein diet from good quality sources(red meat preferable) which provides plenty of tyrosine already is vital. Avoiding high tryptophan foods like milk, certain cheeses(mozzarella, cheddar), etc. is also important. L-tyrosine is taken on an empty stomach so it can enter the brain without competition. I take 2g a day at most and it works pretty well and quickly. Haidut mentioned once about a study where participants took upwards of 10-15g L-Tyrosine without side effects. I wouldnt recommend doing higher then 5g in your case I would recommend go higher than what I use. I take B6 sometimes, 300mg pyridoxine hydrochloride(inactive B6) to reduce prolactin, help dopamine production. I am not consistent there but I will be getting the active B6(P5P) because it is more effective and start using that more consistently. I use vitamin C as well, up to 2g a day, upregulates Tyrosine Hydroxylase and is a necessary cofactor for norepinephrine. Zinc 50mg for testosterone/libido. Also being in sunlight if possible when taking L-Tyrosine is supposed to help make it into Dopamine more readily.

In your case I would not want to be inconsistent. If you take supplements like these, be consistent. 5g L-Tyrosine(split the dose), 50mg P5P daily, 2g Vitamin C daily(split the dose). Something like that is a start. Pregnenolone should help immensely as well. Let us know how things go.

 

[dreamcatcher]

First off, I hope you have become self aware of the reason why you are in this mess. Save yourself from ever experimenting with the spiritual woo woo ever again if you learn anything at all from this experience. Celibacy, meditation, literal nonsense. I used to be that guy. Meditation isnt necessarily bad except raising GABA too much by being too calm and relaxed because of meditation turns you into a vegetable. GABA basically reduces every other neurotransmitter in the body, good and bad.

Your spiritual endeavors, despite temporarily improving your quality of life(I experienced the same improvement) lead you to denying your unconscious mind. Call it you shadow, your animal mind, lizard brain etc. Denial of the self through celibacy is one of the strongest and worst things you can do to yourself. This is stupidity #1(not criticizing, but emphasizing). Meditation is okay but depending on how its done can leave you a vegetable. God only knows what you have done but to put it simply...

Likely based on your symptoms, dopamine deficiency, possibly general catecholamine deficiency. Issues with time passing are also dopamine related. Dopamine speeds up the internal clock, causing everything to happen faster. I cant exactly explain that specific symptom but dopamine likely plays a part. Vital for brain function, drive, energy, social interaction(dry conversation is a big red flag), etc. Research yourself for more on it.

General advice that will actually work is you need to make a 180 turn around. Likely as those three years went on you became more ungrounded(denial of the physical, the self, one's desire) and "spiritual". You likely changed your behavior, thought processes, personality big time basing around whatever spirituality you were into. As time goes on when doing things like this that is a natural consequence.

You need to ground yourself. You need to become one with the physical. All those desires you shunned you need to pull them back in. All this spirituality bull**** needs to be shoved away in favor of the material world. All it does is disconnect you even though it is advertised as doing the opposite. Eat, sleep, have fun, have sex. Weightlifting is also helpful, one of the most physically grounding things you can do. Have a drive that exists in the real world. Dream job, dream home, dream life(real life, not spiritual). Live for the sake of it, enjoy life do not deny it. Become unapologetically free of religious/spiritual rules of behavior, thought, impure thoughts etc.

Im not saying live life with no rules. Problem is you tipped the scales of your psyche too far into the abstract/spiritual/religious/inhibition crap and you need to tip it the other way. Debauchery is likely the key. Only after that can you seek balance. You lack joy and energy because you have lost a drive for living as a consequence of your choices. Now there are also nutritional things you can do to help with anhedonia(lack of pleasure) and energy.

Look into supplementing L-Tyrosine, B6(P5P, active B6), Vitamin C, other catecholamine cofactors to help you help yourself so you can start living again. Meditation is big no-no at least for now. Listen to exciting music instead. Get hobbies, do things you enjoy, even if they are "shallow" or materialistic in nature. I hope for you to recover from this. Life without joy or pleasure is no life at all.

Jeff Brown has similar views to yours.
Soulshaping

It's not that easy though to transition-perhaps due to being 'brainwashed'-speaking from personal experience.

 

[Rafael Lao Wai]

I wish it would be so simple now. I am afraid I did so much damage that going back is not going to happen soon. If at all. I have problems with sleeping, eating and having fun in general. Insomnia, lack of appetite and ahedonia took over. Occasionally I lift small weights but that exhausts me very quickly now. As far as dream life goes is hard to imagine anything else except getting better when you feel that horrible. Not saying you're wrong, I appreciate advice but I want to feel at least something positive cause as you said life without pleasure indeed is no life at all.

Thanks

How often are you masturbating/ having sex now? If you are still living a celibate lifestyle, that may be one of the things that is getting the way of recovery. I'm not advocating having ten orgasms per day, just saying that incorporating sexual things back into your life is likely to to be step in the right direction. When I go too long without contemplating my sexual desires, my mood gets bad and I feel detached, although there is certainly a sweet spot between too little and too much( once a week for me is perfect right now). Lifting weights is also very good, it's one of my favorite activities. No need to lift more than what feels comfortable, though.

 

[TheSir]

Different experiences of divinity does not mean that all religions are true. Each could be right about certain things and wrong about others.

I agree. I would go as far as saying that it is not possible for a religion to be "true" in the strictest sense of the word, because no concept nor abstraction within the finite mind of a human can ever accurately capture the essence of the infinite. However, this doesn't mean that religions are unable to light the path towards truth. Religions don't represent God. They represent the path towards God. They lay the foundation to spiritual seeking. The path has still to be walked manually by the individual.

 

[LUH 3417]

Jeff Brown has similar views to yours.
Soulshaping

It's not that easy though to transition-perhaps due to being 'brainwashed'-speaking from personal experience.

Checked out the site and looks like he sells courses? I could be wrong. Have you taken any of the courses?

 

[dreamcatcher]

Checked out the site and looks like he sells courses? I could be wrong. Have you taken any of the courses?

He might, I haven't taken any courses. He has a Facebook page where he posts quotes, etc. from his books. I used to read those.

 

[Uselis]

How often are you masturbating/ having sex now? If you are still living a celibate lifestyle, that may be one of the things that is getting the way of recovery. I'm not advocating having ten orgasms per day, just saying that incorporating sexual things back into your life is likely to to be step in the right direction. When I go too long without contemplating my sexual desires, my mood gets bad and I feel detached, although there is certainly a sweet spot between too little and too much( once a week for me is perfect right now). Lifting weights is also very good, it's one of my favorite activities. No need to lift more than what feels comfortable, though.

I agree but my body is probably in such depleted state that I get almost 0 sexual desires or thoughts. Ssri is been known to take away that part as well I think so such combination keeps me in ascetic mode ☺

 

[Uselis]

Yes it is important to look into tapering off the SSRI as soon as possible. Preg is a great start. Personally, a high protein diet from good quality sources(red meat preferable) which provides plenty of tyrosine already is vital. Avoiding high tryptophan foods like milk, certain cheeses(mozzarella, cheddar), etc. is also important. L-tyrosine is taken on an empty stomach so it can enter the brain without competition. I take 2g a day at most and it works pretty well and quickly. Haidut mentioned once about a study where participants took upwards of 10-15g L-Tyrosine without side effects. I wouldnt recommend doing higher then 5g in your case I would recommend go higher than what I use. I take B6 sometimes, 300mg pyridoxine hydrochloride(inactive B6) to reduce prolactin, help dopamine production. I am not consistent there but I will be getting the active B6(P5P) because it is more effective and start using that more consistently. I use vitamin C as well, up to 2g a day, upregulates Tyrosine Hydroxylase and is a necessary cofactor for norepinephrine. Zinc 50mg for testosterone/libido. Also being in sunlight if possible when taking L-Tyrosine is supposed to help make it into Dopamine more readily.

In your case I would not want to be inconsistent. If you take supplements like these, be consistent. 5g L-Tyrosine(split the dose), 50mg P5P daily, 2g Vitamin C daily(split the dose). Something like that is a start. Pregnenolone should help immensely as well. Let us know how things go.

Thanks! One last thing...Milk is off? It used to be my staple and I thought it's high quality food. Also it's one of the rare foods that I actually crave once in awhile.

 

[LUH 3417]

Personally I think a lot of young people, due to the influence of new age beliefs, get into spirituality and meditation without ever going through the steps of self actualization. I’m a critic of Jung but one belief of his I can see eye to eye with is his steps towards self actualization and phases of life based on age and accomplishment. There’s a reason the wise old man is an OLD man. Integration is a process. I believe you can purify or wade through the unconscious but it is a life long task that requires action and change in reality. Withdrawal from and denial of life is not the answer. A humanistic psychologist or person oriented therapist may be useful in this time, I don’t know if you can find one in Lithuania but it is an entire school of thought with plenty of publications.

http://bioenergetic-therapy.com/ima...ts_IIBA/Publications/eBook/Honoring_Lowen.pdf

“Fear of Life” by Alexander Lowen is a personal favorite of mine. I wasn’t able to find the pdf online for free but I posted a link which includes his work. I think it may be helpful for you.

 

[redsun]

Thanks! One last thing...Milk is off? It used to be my staple and I thought it's high quality food. Also it's one of the rare foods that I actually crave once in awhile.

Yes milk is high in tryptophan, very few people do okay with milk in the diet and even fewer actually thrive with milk as a staple. Cheese is much better dairy source like gouda, provolone, brie, blue cheese, feta, parmesan have very little tryptophan. Cheddar and mozzarella have high amounts of tryptophan.

We want to reduce tryptophan to curb overproduction of serotonin. If you must eat dairy opt for cheese. Things like meat, potatoes, fruits, cheese provide plenty of nutrition without the drawbacks of milk. Tryptophan is not the only concern of milk, there are also opioid-like substances that increase prolactin/estrogen, lactose intolerance/casein and other issues. All dairy has opioids but milk seems to be the worst offender for many here who have attempted to incorporate it.

Some do fine with cheese, some had to eliminate dairy altogether because it ruins them. Main thing is the loss of motivation many have ascribed to the prolactin raising affects(and therefore dopamine antagonizing effects) and dropping milk improved this aspect.

My interpretation of the purpose of "spiritual" stuff like celibacy and meditation isn't to deny the unconscious mind but to purify it. Step 1 is eliminating "lower" desires, which necessarily weakens the unconscious mind and strengths the conscious mind, but then Step 2 is no thought meditation to weaken the conscious mind and allow yourself to operate from your unconscious mind again, except now the animalistic "proliferative" parts of your unconscious mind have been removed.

It's a hard process but I don't know if you should completely stay away from it. There's really nothing otherworldy about it, it is just a process to restore the quality of brain functioning to that of a child.

"Purification" is spiritual lingo. Its just denial of the unconscious but with a nicer word. You cannot purify the unconscious. The unconscious is the primitive mind that is locked away. You cannot eliminate "lower" desires, they are part of you and they will always be. You can shut it out and deny the true self and live like a neutered monk. If you want to live like that that's your choice, but there is no elimination of parts of who you are you can only lock it away, and only for so long. OP is a prime example of taking this ***t too far. He now needs to figure out a way to pull his soul out of the depths of despair so he can live again because of spirituality.

 

[redsun]

.

 

[TheSir]

Some do fine with cheese, some had to eliminate dairy altogether because it ruins them. Main thing is the loss of motivation

Damn, this might be me. I have previously noted that it's as if I'm coincidentally more driven and motivated when I have happened to run out of cheese and went a few days without buying more. Usually it takes 1-2 days for the effect to kick in.