Spiritual Discernment

[Richiebogie]

I have a friend who disagrees with me on almost every topic.

We discuss things in depth but there seems to be nothing that convinces me to change my mind and nothing that convinces him.

He believes he is being meticulous and scientific but it is strange how every conclusion is 180 degrees opposite to my way of thinking.

While he is not a liar and is a kind person, his discernment means that he trusts people I think are crooks and fears those who I think are benevolent.

I have begun to suspect there is a spiritual cause behind this.

Although he is a confessed Atheist, I know my friend has said that if God existed he would resent God for allowing so much suffering in the world.

I have read similar arguments in left wing newspapers.

I think my friend would take Lucifer's side over God on principal if he found out they were real!

I have seen youtube clips of people saying Lucifer or Satan is misunderstood. They claim he is a good guy who freed mankind from tyranny. They don't seem to mention that Satan promises fun and delivers pain.

Earlier I could not understand how anyone could dislike Christ, as he healed people and was gentle and kind. He died an horrific undeserved death.

But there are people who hate Christ and Christians with a passion.

Christ was adored entering Jerusalem but as he foresaw soon he was reviled.

This seems to be explained in Matthew 10, particularly verse 25.

25 It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household?

Some may say I am deluded, contrary and arrogant, but I suspect Christians or those who prefer the concept of Christ to the concept of Satan have a spiritual gift of discernment.

This does not mean Christians know everything, nor that their advice is always good, but maybe it means they know truth when they find it!

Has anyone had similar thoughts or experiences? Is there anything I could do to convert my friend or should I shake off the dust of my shoes?

 

[charlie]

Some may say I am deluded, contrary and arrogant, but I suspect Christians or those who prefer the concept of Christ to the concept of Satan have a spiritual gift of discernment.

We do.

Is there anything I could do to convert my friend or should I shake off the dust of my shoes?

I would pray and just be an example of the Light as best you can.

 

[sprinter]

Dude are you arguing with a friend over the bible or something? It's 2016, are people still religious? There is so much real spiritual knowledge available on the internet, why are you listening to religious people/christians? Be spiritual; find that space beyond the mind. Find whats in your heart. Go inside. Discover what's actually real. Meditate. You're talking about ideas (like Satan) like they're actually real. How the heck do you have a serious discussion about Satan? You're too in your head.

 

[tca300]

I would as you said "Shake the dust off your shoes". Most athiests will need evidence to believe in what you do, and you cant provide anything beyond "faith", and what you "feel", to be true, which is the case for virtually all of the different religions of the world.. For the most part people belong to certain religions based on what country or area of the world they are born, which is a little fishy to me, not to mention you would need to ethically justify the god of the bibles actions and orders it gave in the past, which also, cant be done.

 

[Richiebogie]

Dude are you arguing with a friend over the bible or something? It's 2016, are people still religious?

No the arguments with my friend were over health, science, politics and history. It is uncanny how we seem to have opposite views, despite both of us looking at the same evidence.

He supports big government, less personal independence (less freedom). He believes in vaccines and orthodox medicines, orthodox scientific explanations etc.

Certainly I would believe in pharmaceutical drugs if tested according to the scientific method but often I suspect corruption.

I am wondering if there is a spiritual reason for this difference in faith.

Eg. Karl Marx preached that the previously theorized win-win transactions in free market capitalism were instead exploitative. Marx encouraged dissatisfaction, revolution, and the creation of a totalitarian society.

Repeatedly through history since Karl Marx we find that socialism leads to poverty, while freedom and capitalism leads to enrichment.

Reverend Richard Wurmbrand wrote a book published in 1986 called "Marx & Satan" in which he explains that Karl Marx wrote poems praising Satan.

Marx' benefactor Engels wrote that Marx was a monster possessed by 10,000 devils.

Wurmbrand concludes: "Communism is collective demon possession".

Could the spirit of Satan be dissatisfaction, destruction, enslavement and cruelty while the spirit of Christ is peace, love, freedom and giving?

Perhaps Buddhism and Hinduism approximate Christianity while Islam with its strict rules and violent Jihad is more like the opposite.

If so this provides a method of testing the spirits of your friends by finding out how open they are to ideas of freedom, generosity, etc.

 

[charlie]

Could the spirit of Satan be dissatisfaction, enslavement and cruelty while the spirit of Christ is peace, freedom and giving?

Yes.

 

[DaveFoster]

@Richiebogie

You have good thoughts. I think if we all agree that duality exists, and that there is a good (even relative good for each person or event,) then where is the source of the bad?

If you want to go to Christian scripture, this seems appropriate:

And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.

Even still, how could the evil exist if it should accept what is good? It would cease to be evil, reviled, and abhorrent.

For there to be immorality, there must be a rejection of "the good," otherwise suffering in all of its novelty becomes nonexistent.

Another point comes when people talk about how psychedelics "open your eyes to the truth," and similar statements.

If serotonin antagonists allow you a more full, comprehensive, and "purer" perception of reality, then wouldn't those with minimal stress, lower serotonin, and a more vibrant metabolism have a clearer, more grounded view of reality?

 

[CoconutEffect]

@Richiebogie

This might clear some things up

 

[Richiebogie]

The serpent encouraged Eve and then Eve encouraged Adam to eat the fruit which God had forbidden.

The serpent suggested that Adam and Eve could be like God and have more power and freedom but it actually got them thrown out of paradise.

The fruit was from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. Maybe the forbidden fruit reverses our discernment of good and evil or unconsciously makes us prefer evil.

Each time we accept and follow Christ we head back to love or the kingdom of heaven or the garden of Eden.

Each time we follow Marxism or other satanic doctrines we head towards the pit of despair and nihilism.

@DaveFoster For a physical explanation, perhaps it was a walnut tree?

 

[DaveFoster]

The serpent encouraged Eve and then Eve encouraged Adam to eat the fruit which God had forbidden.

The serpent suggested that Adam and Eve could be like God and have more power and freedom but it actually got them thrown out of paradise.

The fruit was from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. Maybe the forbidden fruit reverses our discernment of good and evil or unconsciously makes us prefer evil.

Each time we accept and follow Christ we head back to love or the kingdom of heaven or the garden of Eden.

Each time we follow Marxism or other satanic doctrines we head towards the pit of despair and nihilism.

@DaveFoster For a physical explanation, perhaps it was a walnut tree?

Indeed; the forbidden fruit was definitely an avocado or nut of sorts.

 

[charlie]

Indeed; the forbidden fruit was definitely an avocado or nut of sorts.

The forbidden fruit was the fruit of the loins.

 

[DaveFoster]

The forbidden fruit was the fruit of the loins.

"Nut of sorts."

 

[charlie]

"Nut of sorts."

I see what you did there.

 

[amethyst]

The forbidden fruit was the fruit of the loins.

Fruit of the loom? A nut protector . Moving on, I think Eve got it on after she ate an hallucinogenic piece of fruit from the tree, which lowered her inhibitions and made her susceptible to Lucy's advances....thus producing Cain.

 

[Richiebogie]

Thanks @dilantinoid,

Both Trump supporters and Soros / Clinton supporters find meaning in following what they perceive is true and being willing to adapt (learn and sacrifice their previous positions) and investing their time, effort and money in spreading their message.

The difference does seem to be Trump supporters' suspicion of big government & faith in God versus Soros supporters' faith in human experts / authority / institutions and atheism.

Individual vs Collective.

 

[steel_reserve]

Understand first that he already has a religion. He already has a god.

Right now his god is providing what he wants.

Conversions typically happen when people gain enormous responsibility (like marriage or children) or when they are left desolate by their god (rock bottom).

You may want to limit contact with this person as you are more likely to be corrupted by him than you lifting him up (corrupt communication).

 

[Waynish]

You both seem to give a lot of credence to your beliefs... As if your collection of beliefs is who you both are... And he's on the devil's side and you're on God's... This is delusional.
Instead I would encourage you to look plainly at the problems you both face in life - if you're looking for a healthier competition. And you can discuss how you conquer them.
I would look inward. Why is this person your friend? Where does the impulse to convert them come from? Are they trying to convert you? And so on...

 

[xiaohua]

Has anyone found a Ray Peat diet / lifestyle to be conducive to spiritual development? Have you noticed a difference in this aspect of your life?