Sorry, Your Gut Bacteria Are Not The Answer To All Your Health Problems

[XPlus]

Both of you guys post very thoughtfully,
and I tend to believe both of your accounts.
Now where the hell does that leave me?!

In a whirlpool of confusion
That was a great discussion.
I appreciate your input, too.

Ms. Galore beckons from the shower now...she doesn't like to be kept waiting!

Out of all the bond girls that I remember I thought she was too old for the role.
Nonetheless, sexy.

 

[narouz]

Out of all the bond girls that I remember I thought she was too old for the role.
Nonetheless, sexy.

I believe I thought likewise when I saw the films in my youth.
Now, in my dotage, she looks young!

You know, she was one of the early Mrs. Peels too.

 

[XPlus]

You know, she was one of the early Mrs. Peel's too.

Was that something little kids back in the day used to fancy

 

[narouz]

You know, she was one of the early Mrs. Peel's too.

Was that something little kids back in the day used to fancy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Avengers_(TV_series)

 

[XPlus]

A brit version of the Avengers! - wasn't the 60s simply awesome
The one on the left is Bond's wife I think.
Interesting. They were both bond girls.

 

[messtafarian]

Not too much else to add, really. There are labs all over the world looking for the gut bacteria that will make you thin or cure your heart disease. In the *real* research culture the most often held sentiment is that we have no idea what these things are; we don't know what they do or what they are a part of. I think if you pressed them they would probably agree with Peat and say that swallowing bacteria on purpose is a sort of unwieldy and possibly dangerous practice.

These bacteria are really small. There is usually no way to tell from microscopic examination what exactly they are or if they are different from other bacteria, so they have to be analyzed by PCR of extracted DNA. One problem with drugstore probiotics is that no one really has the equipment to tell if there is actually even any lactobacilli or any other organism in the pills they're selling.

Most of them are working on ways to identify and safely remove bacteria, which is truly a much more serious problem. For example there are lots of strains of e coli, and most of them are either benign or extremely beneficial. However to find the *bad* e. coli, and be absolutely sure of its identity, probably took ten years and fifty million dollars to achieve. They're not done, either; they've got another ten years to go.

 

[Such_Saturation]

In the *real* research culture the most often held sentiment is that we have no idea what these things are; we don't know what they do or what they are a part of.

Well, I don't see this as too much of an issue, since even at the end-cycle of a research sector, when they think they "know all about" something or someone, they refuse to place it in any kind of organic, functional view so as to give it any kind of natural purpose. So we already know right off the bat that that will be our own personal endeavour.

 

[messtafarian]

Maybe. Kinda hard when you need a DNA sequencer to even figure out what you're looking at.

 

[XPlus]

Not too much else to add, really. There are labs all over the world looking for the gut bacteria that will make you thin or cure your heart disease. In the *real* research culture the most often held sentiment is that we have no idea what these things are; we don't know what they do or what they are a part of. I think if you pressed them they would probably agree with Peat and say that swallowing bacteria on purpose is a sort of unwieldy and possibly dangerous practice.

These bacteria are really small. There is usually no way to tell from microscopic examination what exactly they are or if they are different from other bacteria, so they have to be analyzed by PCR of extracted DNA. One problem with drugstore probiotics is that no one really has the equipment to tell if there is actually even any lactobacilli or any other organism in the pills they're selling.

Most of them are working on ways to identify and safely remove bacteria, which is truly a much more serious problem. For example there are lots of strains of e coli, and most of them are either benign or extremely beneficial. However to find the *bad* e. coli, and be absolutely sure of its identity, probably took ten years and fifty million dollars to achieve. They're not done, either; they've got another ten years to go.

That's very interesting.
I always thought the technology we have is much more sophisticated but it seems that the research is a very messy and primitive endeavor.

It's great that we get to talk to people who have hands-on experience like you.

 

[messtafarian]

Oh, I'm not a scientist. But I spent lots and lots of time around them. I had a sort of special perspective because I got to watch not only the geniuses at work but also their students who were really too afraid to do or think anything on their own. It was pretty obvious to everybody though that we know about as much about the micro biome as we do about the sea floors, space and rain forest pharmaceuticals. We just don't have the technology yet to really understand what's going on. They can make some good guesses, but it's still the wilderness.

 

[XPlus]

Your perspective is indeed valuable in that its you know what's exactly going on behind the scenes and the truth of it all.
Here on the internet, we can only make presumptions;
and what I find really interesting to observe is how much presumptions we made into truth in the past few years just speculating on the science.
Thank you for chipping in.

 

[Parsifal]

I think that the idea for a healthy "Peatarian" that is not eating any starches or insoluble fibers to send his stools to ubiome for bacteria analysis would be a very good and interesting idea. Maybe we could club together to help pay the thing?

I wonder if someone would post the study of rats with a sterile gut having a higher metabolism?
I think that the ideas of Danger theory and Morphostasis have not been quoted here, it is important for understanding the immune system like Ray Peat.

There have been a lot of things said on different topics on the gut microbiote but I find it a bit frustrating has the debate have not been really productive...

 

[Pet Peeve]

consistently eating antibiotics...which I dont anymore, but I cant say that having done so in the past wasn't a HUGE part of my freeing my body and mind in my life. Bacteria either promote cortisol or estrogen, and really don't want to be kicked out. Even in the flush out of them, theres like a serotonin response until theyre literally out. When I was eating raw cacao in extremely high amounts...6-7 years ago, it changed my life. Knowing what I know now, it...has a special effect similar to tobacco but much more powerful, in that it...basically bacteria and/or yeast perhaps are representations of thought patterns, that aren't yours, that came from other people or potentially were self induced. Anything that would have you seem like you owe someone, the world, something, that induces guilt that isn't in an obvious way of you deserving it like littering or something, anything that is a 'should' or that basically takes your energy...the key is, it doesn't bring you feelings of high dope and love in your heart, which is the state you are supposed to be in, its beyond thoughts a lot of times. Any pattern, thought, person, 'duty', or like perspective on life..theres always a sad melancholic or kind of victim hopeless...or even victim of 'god' or 'necessary duty for mankind' thought is actually serotnerigically generated and the manifestation is in microbes in the gut. If you consistently eat large amounts of potent material like raw cacao, the thing...at the time I didn't quite know what it was, but...basically you become you, your own heart, joy, and basically ability to dance and flow through life, have confidence...feel elated doped feelings comes back. Senses of shame or guilt or non worthiness to be in a situation or talk to certain people or anything like that, are quelled almost completely...depending. And of course, the people that are parasitic in your life that prevent you from dancing, the thought patterns, or whatever it is, will try to fight back and throw guilt or doubt and **** into you, and you have to commit to dumping them. Once you do, the proper wiring will set in through living and experience, and then you **** out the micriobes, usually in a soapy froth fashion. Eventually when your experience and immune system and wiring is to a certain degree, you don't need antibiotics anymore...you use your senses, and pay attention to what takes your joy away, even a thought, and you can cast it out just via your own inner eye's immune system. Dancing, feeling doped and elated, is the precursor to casting out all parasitic influences from your life and internally. Strong antimicrobials can help you do this, but probably the main factor and why raw cacao is so powerful is PEA, dopamine, oxytocin and other things that have you feeling surged with elated feelings and positivity and capability. Its funny and beautiful how everything in life changes when having those surging through you, discernibility is almost perfect, the way nature appears and feels, just everything gets put into its rightful karmic place and its easy to distinguish what your heart really is, who you are, what makes you in your highest...thought wise and in the totality. Ultimately antimocribials are harsh on the intestines and are kind of a roller coasted ride of back and forth epic feelings to feeling constipated or tugged down because usually they are very astringent, so you want to end needing them...it can take years though...in our society all the ****, all your parents, school, whatever..like a million subtle things, but eventually your own immune system steps up...at the same time you will have to be careful with how you live your life, where you go, who you're around, what you say, where you work and all that, but the joy you feel...freedom, in your heart, trumps everything so its ok. If you promote serotonin on purposed such as eating offensive or gas producing food ...starve yourself, anything that weakens your fire basically, predisposes you to being needy or desperate or needing excessive help from others...and then their bull**** kind of thoughts or perspectives, your perspectives o n life, get...tainted often times, and then they stay with you, and then microbes set in, always...whenever your joy is gonna come on, throw doubt and fear at you, and the particular thought or energetic pattern they represent, and basically it is like the kind of thing that makes you want to cringe or scream cause you cant ever quite feel totally free flowing free and ...your mind always gets infested with thoughts that distract you from your pure beingness, dancing and flowing in joy, just because, totally heart guided

ive been on an alone journey trailblazing this kind of knowing, and have had to endure so much intensity of all kinds, the kinds that pretty much no one ive met could even come close to handling. Take it as a gift of love

I took activated charcoal for the first time last week at 5-6 grams a day for two days and I was amazed and perplexed how it cleaned out my lungs. I don't think my lung-function has been this good in years. I coughed up slime the whole first day.

Then I suddenly remembered. I was reading about chinese medicine with a lot of interest for a period and that according to chinese medicine the large intestine is paired up with the lungs (all important organs in chinese medicine are paired). Phlegm is also a diagnosis in chinese medicine in the same manner as excessive heat or dryness in the organs. So one could say that the removal of phlegm/bacteria/bacteria-byproduct from the large intestine by activated charcoal was mirrored in the removal of phlegm from the lungs as these organs are paired. I guess bad/excessive bacteria produce phlegm (physically and/or energetically as these two are not necessarily distinguished between in chinese medicine), and anyway the existence of bacteria was not known when chinese medicine was formed so they would have had to go by other explanations.

Even more interesting to me is that the small intestine is paired with the heart. In chinese medicine the brain is not an important organ at all, instead mental problems/mental disease is considered to be an imbalance with the heart. There is no psychology in chinese medicine and mental problems are seen as an organ imbalance. Either the heart imbalance from wrong lifestyle (e.g. wrong diet) gives rise to mental problems or mental problems (stress, shock, fear, worry etc.) give rise to the organ imbalance. The most prominent diagnosis when it comes to mental problems/distress is phlegm with the heart. I would expect a small intestine bacterial overgrowth to produce mental distress as the small intestine is connected to the heart, and the small intestine phlegm mirrored in the heart. Also in sexual health the heart needs an open connection to the kidneys to function optimally, a connection which would be blocked by phlegm in the channel.

 

[sladerunner69]

Dude all these krill oil kids are going to have age spots by the time they're thirty

and IT WILL be their parents' fault this time. We are not in the Age of Excuses anymore.

I follow this "alternative media" blog, the other day they were pushing two articles one after the other... one about the dangers of serotonin drugs, the other one about raising serotonin naturally but it is beginning to look sadder than funny, so I guess I will cry

Yeah it is rather sad isn't it? So lost and misunderstood. How far below this world carries on into the abyss! We can only hope to save our own.

It ain't easy bein peaty.

 

[lollipop]

It ain't easy bein peaty.

True this. Had to give up on other FB health groups. Was arguing, arguing over and over with people about" low carb/paleo ketosis is king", "sugar is bad", "coffee is bad", "PUFA is good", "Omega 3's save your brain", etc., etc., simply wore me out. Decided to bug out and spend time here and on FB's Ray Peat Biohackers group by Flavio.

 

[Birdie]

I took activated charcoal for the first time last week at 5-6 grams a day for two days and I was amazed and perplexed how it cleaned out my lungs. I don't think my lung-function has been this good in years. I coughed up slime the whole first day.

Then I suddenly remembered. I was reading about chinese medicine with a lot of interest for a period and that according to chinese medicine the large intestine is paired up with the lungs (all important organs in chinese medicine are paired). Phlegm is also a diagnosis in chinese medicine in the same manner as excessive heat or dryness in the organs. So one could say that the removal of phlegm/bacteria/bacteria-byproduct from the large intestine by activated charcoal was mirrored in the removal of phlegm from the lungs as these organs are paired. I guess bad/excessive bacteria produce phlegm (physically and/or energetically as these two are not necessarily distinguished between in chinese medicine), and anyway the existence of bacteria was not known when chinese medicine was formed so they would have had to go by other explanations.

Even more interesting to me is that the small intestine is paired with the heart. In chinese medicine the brain is not an important organ at all, instead mental problems/mental disease is considered to be an imbalance with the heart. There is no psychology in chinese medicine and mental problems are seen as an organ imbalance. Either the heart imbalance from wrong lifestyle (e.g. wrong diet) gives rise to mental problems or mental problems (stress, shock, fear, worry etc.) give rise to the organ imbalance. The most prominent diagnosis when it comes to mental problems/distress is phlegm with the heart. I would expect a small intestine bacterial overgrowth to produce mental distress as the small intestine is connected to the heart, and the small intestine phlegm mirrored in the heart. Also in sexual health the heart needs an open connection to the kidneys to function optimally, a connection which would be blocked by phlegm in the channel.

Thanks for the note about Chinese Medicine. I'd forgotten that link between the large intestine and lungs. My husband has hay fever (lungs) for years and has bowel problems right now. This info contributes to my quest to get him helped.

 

[Pet Peeve]

Thanks for the note about Chinese Medicine. I'd forgotten that link between the large intestine and lungs. My husband has hay fever (lungs) for years and has bowel problems right now. This info contributes to my quest to get him helped.

Glad you found it helpful

 

[Shontelle]

Thanks for the note about Chinese Medicine. I'd forgotten that link between the large intestine and lungs. My husband has hay fever (lungs) for years and has bowel problems right now. This info contributes to my quest to get him helped.

I took activated charcoal for the first time last week at 5-6 grams a day for two days and I was amazed and perplexed how it cleaned out my lungs. I don't think my lung-function has been this good in years. I coughed up slime the whole first day.

Then I suddenly remembered. I was reading about chinese medicine with a lot of interest for a period and that according to chinese medicine the large intestine is paired up with the lungs (all important organs in chinese medicine are paired). Phlegm is also a diagnosis in chinese medicine in the same manner as excessive heat or dryness in the organs. So one could say that the removal of phlegm/bacteria/bacteria-byproduct from the large intestine by activated charcoal was mirrored in the removal of phlegm from the lungs as these organs are paired. I guess bad/excessive bacteria produce phlegm (physically and/or energetically as these two are not necessarily distinguished between in chinese medicine), and anyway the existence of bacteria was not known when chinese medicine was formed so they would have had to go by other explanations.

Even more interesting to me is that the small intestine is paired with the heart. In chinese medicine the brain is not an important organ at all, instead mental problems/mental disease is considered to be an imbalance with the heart. There is no psychology in chinese medicine and mental problems are seen as an organ imbalance. Either the heart imbalance from wrong lifestyle (e.g. wrong diet) gives rise to mental problems or mental problems (stress, shock, fear, worry etc.) give rise to the organ imbalance. The most prominent diagnosis when it comes to mental problems/distress is phlegm with the heart. I would expect a small intestine bacterial overgrowth to produce mental distress as the small intestine is connected to the heart, and the small intestine phlegm mirrored in the heart. Also in sexual health the heart needs an open connection to the kidneys to function optimally, a connection which would be blocked by phlegm in the channel.

I believe I have small intestine/heart imbalance.
What would help in this case?

 

[Olmec]

I believe I have small intestine/heart imbalance.
What would help in this case?