Some SOLID Bro Science On Balding

[GorillaHead]

I personally think that remodelling of the scalp tissue/breaking up the fibrosis and calcification is very difficult to achieve without including some form of massaging or micro-needling. I have personally noticed a definitely filling in of my temples and starting to on my crown after adding in micro-needling. It is a very fine balance to strike though as if you are too aggressive with the micro-needling and the massaging then you will actually cause more hair loss because the the scalp will just be chronically inflamed.

The body has to be able to be in a healthy enough place to be able to handle the inflammation and repair accordingly.

I personally found that it has to be quite aggressive for it to have a positive effect (you have to draw blood). I do it once every 10-14 days.

hmm i may try this. How often u do it sounds about right too. Those people microneedling daily are causing damage

 

[jzeno]

The device used in the scalp massage study from OP: https://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-scalp-cleaning-Silver-EH-HM75-S/dp/B00BSJBNSK

Search "device"
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4740347/pdf/eplasty16e08.pdf

 

[GorillaHead]

What’s everyone think about these photos. I am unsure how genuine they are but they are interesting. They are photos comparing before and after steroid use.
One is during and after.


The photo of the man before and after steroids is interesting because the back of his skull grew like crazy. Like what happened there anyone care to explain.



the second photo is also interesting the man is clearly on steroids with zero recession and then boom off steroids lost all his muscle and full on norwoods

 

[Luis aguilar]

Any Updates on the experiments? :p

 

[GorillaHead]

Any Updates on the experiments? :p

The one i am doing with dexa?

if thats what u are asking about it is way too early to tell. I am only a week into the experiment and i may be seeing progress but as of right now its not significant enough to even mention as it may be just lighting and or thickening agents.

2-3 weeks i expect to see some progress. Trust me I will update this good or bad.

 

[ilhanxx]

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[ilhanxx]

The one i am doing with dexa?

if thats what u are asking about it is way too early to tell. I am only a week into the experiment and i may be seeing progress but as of right now its not significant enough to even mention as it may be just lighting and or thickening agents.

2-3 weeks i expect to see some progress. Trust me I will update this good or bad.

What do you think about low dose(%2) topical spironolactone? it has antifibrosis properties.

 

[Zigzag]

What’s everyone think about these photos. I am unsure how genuine they are but they are interesting. They are photos comparing before and after steroid use.
One is during and after.


The photo of the man before and after steroids is interesting because the back of his skull grew like crazy. Like what happened there anyone care to explain.



the second photo is also interesting the man is clearly on steroids with zero recession and then boom off steroids lost all his muscle and full on norwoods

The first dude in the second pic is clearly roided much more than in the first one. I mean he's still on "something" that's why he went bald.

 

[md_a]

I believe that an effective treatment is with a solution based on urea (or carbonic anhydrase inhibitors, CO2).

Follicular hyperkeratosis also known as keratosis pilaris (KP), is a skin condition characterized by excessive development of keratin in hair follicles, resulting in rough, cone-shaped, elevated papules. The openings are often closed with a white plug of encrusted sebum. When called phrynoderma the condition is associated with nutritional deficiency or malnourishment….

It can be treated with urea-containing creams, which dissolve the intercellular matrix of the cells of the stratum corneum, promoting desquamation of scaly skin, eventually resulting in softening of hyperkeratotic areas.

Hyperkeratosis - Wikipedia

Urea is an emollient (a skin softening agent). Urea enhances penetration kinetics of vitamin A into the various layers of human skin. Urea may also help to soften thick scalp plaques. Urea is also a source of nitrogen for hair growth.

 

[GorillaHead]

I believe that an effective treatment is with a solution based on urea (or carbonic anhydrase inhibitors, CO2).

Follicular hyperkeratosis also known as keratosis pilaris (KP), is a skin condition characterized by excessive development of keratin in hair follicles, resulting in rough, cone-shaped, elevated papules. The openings are often closed with a white plug of encrusted sebum. When called phrynoderma the condition is associated with nutritional deficiency or malnourishment….

It can be treated with urea-containing creams, which dissolve the intercellular matrix of the cells of the stratum corneum, promoting desquamation of scaly skin, eventually resulting in softening of hyperkeratotic areas.

Hyperkeratosis - Wikipedia

Urea is an emollient (a skin softening agent). Urea enhances penetration kinetics of vitamin A into the various layers of human skin. Urea may also help to soften thick scalp plaques. Urea is also a source of nitrogen for hair growth.

I looked into urea. Maybe a urea based shampoo with lots of massaging. But isnt salycic acid based shampoos basically the same thing in terms of end result

 

[GorillaHead]

The first dude in the second pic is clearly roided much more than in the first one. I mean he's still on "something" that's why he went bald.

Ya but how did that guys head shape change like that how is that possible

 

[Zigzag]

Ya but how did that guys head shape change like that how is that possible

yes it's weird indeed. It might be one of the reasons he went bald.

 

[TheSir]

Ya but how did that guys head shape change like that how is that possible

Many bald people have a weirdly tall and bloated top of the head (neurocranium). I think this causes the scalp to stretch and the strain in turn leads to hair loss. There is a stress-strain analysis of a piece of metal that was stretched from both ends, the resulting stress pattern looked exactly what a scalp with receded temples and balding top would look like on a 2D plane.

What in turn causes the neurocranium to grow in height in the first place? Possibly imbalanced activation of the temporalis muscles in relation to other muscles of mastication (temporalis is also a postural muscle and the only masticatory muscle that has such role). Here is how temporalis muscle tone was found to correlate with neurocranial shape:

source: http://repositorio.uchile.cl/bitstr...n-skull-morphology.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y

Basically the healthy skull should be elongated anterior-posteriorly and compact vertically in order not to stretch and strain the scalp. The skulls of babies and young children tend to have this shape:

Then in bald men you see a vertically tall and horizontally shorter neurocranium

 

[GorillaHead]

Many bald people have a weirdly tall and bloated top of the head (neurocranium). I think this causes the scalp to stretch and the strain in turn leads to hair loss. There is a stress-strain analysis of a piece of metal that was stretched from both ends, the resulting stress pattern looked exactly what a scalp with receded temples and balding top would look like on a 2D plane.

What in turn causes the neurocranium to grow in height in the first place? Possibly imbalanced activation of the temporalis muscles in relation to other muscles of mastication (temporalis is also a postural muscle and the only masticatory muscle that has such role). Here is how temporalis muscle tone was found to correlate with neurocranial shape:

source: http://repositorio.uchile.cl/bitstr...n-skull-morphology.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y

Basically the healthy skull should be elongated anterior-posteriorly and compact vertically in order not to stretch and strain the scalp. The skulls of babies and young children tend to have this shape:

Then in bald men you see a vertically tall and horizontally shorter neurocranium

Ya but this wouldnt explain why people thin at the nape or the sides of the head. Skin and hair respond to stretch by expanding. This has been shown in studies.

Babies with small heads often have their hair grow reverse male pattern baldness. As in it starts off like MPB and then the hair is fully covered.

but i cant 100% rule out skull expansion causes. I believe its more of an effect rather than a cause

 

[Zigzag]

There are nw0 and bald people who have either the first or the second head shape. This really doesn't mean anything. A friend of mine has a skull like the dude in your 3rd pic and is fullhead, meanwhile me and my another friend have the "elongated" craniums. I'm already nw2, he is nw3.

 

[rei]

Prevention by calciphylaxis of the progeria-like syndrome induced by chronic dihydrotachysterol overdosage. - PubMed - NCBI

Calciphylaxis enables the organism to deposit calcium selectively in certain areas. Thus, following pretreatment with parathyroid hormone or dihydrotachysterol (DHT), various calciphylactic challengers (egg white, metals, serotonin, etc.) can induce selective calcification-often with inflammation, sclerosis, necrosis or degeneration–in the skin, muscles, cardiovascular system, pancreas, salivary glands, or uterus.”

 

[TheSir]

Ya but this wouldnt explain why people thin at the nape or the sides of the head. Skin and hair respond to stretch by expanding. This has been shown in studies.

Babies with small heads often have their hair grow reverse male pattern baldness. As in it starts off like MPB and then the hair is fully covered.

but i cant 100% rule out skull expansion causes. I believe its more of an effect rather than a cause

Thinning at the nape or the sides is pretty rare. Moreover, the largest cranial arteries supply ample of oxygen into these regions, which is why they are most resistant to shedding and first ones to grow:

There are nw0 and bald people who have either the first or the second head shape. This really doesn't mean anything. A friend of mine has a skull like the dude in your 3rd pic and is fullhead, meanwhile me and my another friend have the "elongated" craniums. I'm already nw2, he is nw3.

It means a lot. It just doesn't mean everything. There are many reasons and mechanics behind balding. I have highlighted one common one.

 

[GorillaHead]

Prevention by calciphylaxis of the progeria-like syndrome induced by chronic dihydrotachysterol overdosage. - PubMed - NCBI

Calciphylaxis enables the organism to deposit calcium selectively in certain areas. Thus, following pretreatment with parathyroid hormone or dihydrotachysterol (DHT), various calciphylactic challengers (egg white, metals, serotonin, etc.) can induce selective calcification-often with inflammation, sclerosis, necrosis or degeneration–in the skin, muscles, cardiovascular system, pancreas, salivary glands, or uterus.”

so what are you saying here.

cause is calcification?

 

[GorillaHead]

Thinning at the nape or the sides is pretty rare. Moreover, the largest cranial arteries supply ample of oxygen into these regions, which is why they are most resistant to shedding:

It means a lot. It just doesn't mean everything. There are many reasons and mechanics behind balding. I have highlighted one common one.

Thinning on the nape is actually pretty common in old men. Ive heard this from many transplant doctors. In fact its one of the reasons the donor area is above the nape. To say its rare isnt really fair.
If theres one thing that correlates with the loss of hair in all these areas its the tissue under them.

I have seen many drawings of the antomy of the skull muscles and galea. But this one i am uploading happens to be the most interesting to me and thats because i have practically thinned out in every single spot there is tendon tissue basically 90% (white area ). Theres even white on the nape in this image

what i do know is tendon tissue usually have awful blood flow

 

[Zigzag]

There is a discord group dedicated to the "scalp tension theory". People have been massaging, loosening their scalps for months and some even for years without major success. I'm not denying it doesn't contribute to the whole MPB cascade, but fixing it definitely doesn't cause regrowth.