Some PCOS questions.

[StrongMom]

Hi everyone,

I have some Pcos related questions in my mind that I cannot figure out. Maybe you can help me with that. Here is my situation:

I was diagnosed with Pcos at around age 16 and (many other times later as well) never had any regular periods in my life. About 5 years ago, I totally stopped ovulating. I am 37 year old. Well, a lot happened in the meantime but let us focus on the PCOS issue for the moment. I am not overweight and have been passing glucose intolerance tests with high stars. At one time, my glucose level after the two-hour test dropped so much that the doctor called me back to retest. After redoing the test and checking my insulin levels, she said that my body is utilizing the glucose so well: i.e., my glucose level drops quickly with little insulin. She said that I don't have insulin resistence. But I have all symptoms of Pcos, had a lot of infertility treatments, etc.

So, the question is I have very strong sugar cravings in my life, it does not look like an insulin resistence issue. What is it then? Can it be something to do with keeping the glucose stable in a range? And how is this linked to PCOS? Most of the Pcos related research focuses on insulin resistence but if you do not have it, how do you deal with it? I have been experimenting with various supplements that are supposed to help with pcos. But so far, no progress.

Also, I am thinking that pcos/sugar imbalance is in family. My mom or grandmother didn't have regular periods in their lifetimes. My mother has sugar cravings as far as I know. Now I have twin boys and the one who looks like me and has many of physical illnesses has strong sugar preferences.

What do you think? I would to know your thoughts. Thanks.

 

[tara]

I don't know much about PCOS.

Peat has said a craving for sugar usually indicates a need for sugar. He seems to see a lot of things from the perspective of energy deficiency. Could you have been suffering from blood sugars dropping too low because you are burning through it very efficiently and faster than you are keeping up the supply? Speculating wildly, I wonder if maybe some of the symptoms of PCOS arise in energy deficiency situations, either from insulin resistance-related or other problems with generating energy from available fuel, or from actual fuel deficiency? If you have spent a lot of time with strong sugar cravings, maybe that's because your body has been trying to address this deficiency?

 

[StrongMom]

Hi Tara. That is what I am thinking of, too. As far as I know, the most of the research on PCOS has focused on insulin resistance but maybe it is really an energy deficiency problem. I am not a scientists and there are a lot of things that I don't know about. I may be missing some other mechanisms. For example, I have low thyroid symptoms. I am wondering if it is the outcome of this deficiency as well.

Thanks again for your thoughts!

 

[charlie]

post 98844 really an energy deficiency problem

Yes!

Regenerative energy for the win.

 

[sweetpeat]

StressedMom, I was reading this article by Peat last night and thought of you: Autonomic systems

Especially this quote:

In polycystic ovaries, menopausal symptoms, arthritis, angina pectoris, multiple sclerosis, some kinds of dementia, migraine, and emphysema, the relief achieved with a simple improvement of cellular energy can be rapid and complete.

 

[tara]

post 98844 For example, I have low thyroid symptoms. I am wondering if it is the outcome of this deficiency as well.

Could be cause and/or effect. Low thyroid tends to reduce production of energy from fuel. Chronic low fuel supply can contribute to low thyroid function. And/or their could be a bottle neck by some other relevant nutritional deficiency.

 

[HDD]

"If you look at the ovaries, when, in a dog or a cow, for example, they have removed the animal's thyroid, the ovaries develop a polycistic condition, instead of just one dominant egg follicle preparing for ovulation, the ovaries fill up with a lot of these fluid filled chambers, and ovulation is abnormal, and they develop the tendency to produce an excess of estrogen. So at many levels low thyroid leads to excess influence, persistence and overproduction of estrogen.

And it's interesting that the accumulation of fluid -- it's one of these mucopolysaccharides again -- that swells up, fills up these many cystic follicles in the ovaries -- it's the same sort of material that fills up the eyeball in glaucoma, which is also promoted by low thyroid and high pituitary hormones.

There are these integrating factors that, in some ways [is] like an all or nothing function for the body, the direction of estrogen dominance, or the direction of thyroid and progesterone dominance. And low protein used to be just sort of a laboratory experiment, but in the last 3 or 4 years, books have come out advocating almost a protein-free diet, so I've had the chance to see many people who have absolutely low thyroid symptoms with high estrogen simply because they're not eating adequate protein. It probably should be something like at least 50 grams of the highest quality protein available."

viewtopic.php?f=73&t=5413

 

[StrongMom]

post 98858 StressedMom, I was reading this article by Peat last night and thought of you: Autonomic systems

Thanks SweetPeat for pointing that out. I has valuable information; among other things it talks about the role of mast cells and describes the mechanics in detail.

Maybe it is really a thyroid issue for me, too. Having a pulse in 60s and temp in 97s, THS in 1 to 2 range, I know I am a bit on the low side, but I was thinking that PCOS (and the estrogen issues) was behind the low thyroid symptoms. Maybe it is the other way around.

 

[StrongMom]

After digesting the article and the interview HDD linked, I have two questions:

1. In the interview, Peat says "When your thyroid is low, you don't store sugar efficiently..." How does this happen? via insulin? I would like to know the mechanism if there is any.

2. Also, where does testosterone come into play? People with PCOS are known to have high levels of testosterone. The traditional PCOS literature says that increased levels of insulin induce ovaries to produce more testosterone. Is it the mechanism? If it is, then, there must be a way insulin in involved in this cycle.

Any thoughts are welcomed

 

[tara]

post 99161 1. In the interview, Peat says "When your thyroid is low, you don't store sugar efficiently..." How does this happen? via insulin? I would like to know the mechanism if there is any.

1. As I understand it, when the body is functioning optimally, and there is more sugar in the blood than is currently needed, it gets stored as glycogen in muscles and liver (maybe other places that I don't know about too, but these are the main ones). Muscle glycogen is only available for the muscles, when they need to do some work. Liver glycogen can be turned back into glucose and be brought out into general circulation when needed. The brain needs a regular supply of glucose to function. Then when glycogen storage is full, excess glucose gets turned into fat.

When people are hypothyroid, it seems to often go with the liver not being so good at storing glycogen. I'm not sure about the mechanism. The liver seems to be prone to getting overloaded and having trouble keeping up with all it's jobs if there is a thyroid deficiency, or a deficiency in any of the other things it needs - (eg protein, sugar, micronutrients), or if it's detoxification functions get overburdened (eg too much endotoxin, PUFA, estrogen).

I'm sure there is more that someone more knowledgeable could fill in.

2. Don't know.

 

[StrongMom]

Thanks Tara. I am sure there is a liver connection. My liver enzymes are a bit elevated and I have many signs of sluggish liver. I have tried almost all liver related supplements discussed in this forum (except thyroid and progesterone) and but have not seen any improvement. I guess it again comes down to thryroid.

I may post the second question as a new topic if we do not get any answer, maybe in that way it might draw more attention.

 

[StrongMom]

Hi everyone-- I just wanted to provide the new topic link for the testosterone question. We have some answers.

Link between PCOS and Testosterone

 

[tara]

post 99377 Thanks Tara. I am sure there is a liver connection. My liver enzymes are a bit elevated and I have many signs of sluggish liver. I have tried almost all liver related supplements discussed in this forum (except thyroid and progesterone) and but have not seen any improvement. I guess it again comes down to thryroid.

How long have you tried eating sweet foods to appetite for? I would expect it to take a while to restore, and it can only do so if there is enough sugar being supplied regularly, and probably all the cofactors for using sugar, as well as maybe some of the other liver supportive tactics.
I don't think I've got mine sorted out yet, but I think there has been improvement.

 

[StrongMom]

post 100702

post 99377 Thanks Tara. I am sure there is a liver connection. My liver enzymes are a bit elevated and I have many signs of sluggish liver. I have tried almost all liver related supplements discussed in this forum (except thyroid and progesterone) and but have not seen any improvement. I guess it again comes down to thryroid.

How long have you tried eating sweet foods to appetite for? I would expect it to take a while to restore, and it can only do so if there is enough sugar being supplied regularly, and probably all the cofactors for using sugar, as well as maybe some of the other liver supportive tactics.
I don't think I've got mine sorted out yet, but I think there has been improvement.

Even before I know about Peat, I was not restricting my sugar intake a lot as it was not possible. It has been always hard for me to work/focus without my sugar cravings satisfied. Well, I never felt good about, felt guilty, and tried to satisfy my cravings by eating a lot of nuts, thinking they are healthy. Obviously, after finding Peat and his work, I do not restrict at all. I would say it has been about a year. I have not been doing a strict Peat diet but did a lot of adjustments. Satisfying my sugar cravings (and some others) and avoiding PUFA as much as possible are the main things I did.

There is only one thing that improved in the last 4-5 months. I do not feel cold anymore. I used to feel cold a lot, I was always the coldest in the room. Not anymore. I suppose that is an improvement.

 

[StrongMom]

After doing some more reading and thinking I decided to take progresterone and some nutri-meds thyroid. I have been taking progest-e for 4 days. I started with the recommended high dose of 3 drops 5 times a day. The question is how I will know that my symptoms are getting better in order to reduce the dosage. Or, do you think I should reduce to 3 times a day after 10 days of high dose anyway? I do not feel much different, but one thing I noticed is my pulse is even lower. It used to be in 60-75 range. Now it declined to 50-70 range.