Some of the first and few empirical data that ties ESTROGEN to androgenetic alopecia!

PurpleHeart

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You mean progesterone balances the higher estrogen in women?
Can anyone actually provide evidence of progesterone levels being higher in women?

Because from what I can find men and women have similar progesterone levels, so I don't know why everyone is using the progesterone argument.

Women only have significantly higher progesterone when pregnant.

Also progesterone supplementation does nothing for hair loss so I don't think that you can argue that it's progesterone that protects hair in women.

Estrogen supplementation reverses hair loss to a significant degree, anyone who denies that fact is closing his eyes to facts and bases his opinion on pure emotionalisms
and dogma that is only supported in this forum, I have seen enough evidence of estrogen supplementation along with antiandrogens like spironolactone reversing hair loss, also women have 20 times as much estrogen as men do along with higher prolactin and similar progesterone, women have smaller livers, weaker thyroids, eat less calories on average, go on crush diets much more than men do in average etc.

If what is believed in that forum was correct then it would be women suffering from hair loss the most, not men.

If anyone has any evidence of women sporting significantly higher progesterone levels on average then I would like to see it please.


Also check this out

 
Last edited:

BrianF

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Women in childbearing years have significantly higher levels of progesterone than men or post-menopausal women.
 

miraddo

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Can anyone actually provide evidence of progesterone levels being higher in women?

Because from what I can find men and women have similar progesterone levels, so I don't know why everyone is using the progesterone argument.

Women only have significantly higher progesterone when pregnant.

Also progesterone supplementation does nothing for hair loss so I don't think that you can argue that it's progesterone that protects hair in women.

Estrogen supplementation reverses hair loss to a significant degree, anyone who denies that fact is closing his eyes to facts and bases his opinion on pure emotionalisms
and dogma that is only supported in this forum, I have seen enough evidence of estrogen supplementation along with antiandrogens like spironolactone reversing hair loss, also women have 20 times as much estrogen as men do along with higher prolactin and similar progesterone, women have smaller livers, weaker thyroids, eat less calories on average, go on crush diets much more than men do in average etc.

If what is believed in that forum was correct then it would be women suffering from hair loss the most, not men.

If anyone has any evidence of women sporting significantly higher progesterone levels on average then I would like to see it please.


Also check this out


Spironolactone is a mineralcorticoid receptor antagonist. It increases hair growth in men who don't supplement estrogen.

Eunuchs have ZERO circulating estrogen and have perfect hairlines.

Balding men have higher DHEA-S, does that mean DHEA is bad? No, it likely means DHEA is rising to oppose some other deleterous factor. Likely what is happening in that progesterone study.
 
Last edited:

PurpleHeart

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Spironolactone is a mineralcorticoid receptor antagonist. It increases hair growth in men who don't supplement estrogen.

Eunuchs have ZERO circulating estrogen and have perfect hairlines.

Balding men have higher DHEA-S, does that mean DHEA is bad? No, it likely means DHEA is rising to oppose some other deleterous factor. Likely what is happening in that progesterone study.
I know the consensus of the forum I've been listening to it for years, I just disagree with it.
 

Xref

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I know the consensus of the forum I've been listening to it for years, I just disagree with it.
Travis, a former member of this forum, has some great read. Look for his theory of hairloss.
The immune function plays a role. I read about psoriasis patients with IL-17A therapy induced hypertrichosis.
 

PurpleHeart

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Travis, a former member of this forum, has some great read. Look for his theory of hairloss.
The immune function plays a role. I read about psoriasis patients with IL-17A therapy induced hypertrichosis.
Thanks for the information I will Look into it, Travis was the most intelligent and interesting member of this forum, I miss his posts as they were always stimulating.
 

bonecandy

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Spironolactone is a mineralcorticoid receptor antagonist. It increases hair growth in men who don't supplement estrogen.

Eunuchs have ZERO circulating estrogen and have perfect hairlines.

Balding men have higher DHEA-S, does that mean DHEA is bad? No, it likely means DHEA is rising to oppose some other deleterous factor. Likely what is happening in that progesterone study.
Spironolactone is an anti-androgen too
 
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Well in my opinion it is still calcification which causes that pattern baldness over the years. If deenergised cells soak up calcium (and iron) that is. Estrogen may hint to a hypoxic state and would cause mitosis of the cell by waterlogging and I guess the increased mitosis would accelerate the calcification process in the long run even more (or cancer)
 

JKX

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Can anyone actually provide evidence of progesterone levels being higher in women?

Because from what I can find men and women have similar progesterone levels, so I don't know why everyone is using the progesterone argument.

Women only have significantly higher progesterone when pregnant.

Also progesterone supplementation does nothing for hair loss so I don't think that you can argue that it's progesterone that protects hair in women.

Estrogen supplementation reverses hair loss to a significant degree, anyone who denies that fact is closing his eyes to facts and bases his opinion on pure emotionalisms
and dogma that is only supported in this forum, I have seen enough evidence of estrogen supplementation along with antiandrogens like spironolactone reversing hair loss, also women have 20 times as much estrogen as men do along with higher prolactin and similar progesterone, women have smaller livers, weaker thyroids, eat less calories on average, go on crush diets much more than men do in average etc.

If what is believed in that forum was correct then it would be women suffering from hair loss the most, not men.

If anyone has any evidence of women sporting significantly higher progesterone levels on average then I would like to see it please.


Also check this out

Probably my favourite Ray Peat article:


Blood levels are pretty much irrelevant. Just a reflection of stress related eb and flow. Blood is indicative of transportation, not utilisation. The luteal phase quote is especially relevant.

I'd suggest having a look at female hormones during the luteal phase and see if your postulations on progesterone remain true.

Cracking older post from Danny:


View: https://m.facebook.com/thedannyroddyweblog/posts/1545815608774090?locale2=pt_BR


Anything that opposes cortisol will improve hair loss as it would improve the condition of any other organ in the human organism. Having tested this theory on myself, I concur. Care to test the estrogen theory on yourself? My advice would be please do not.

"Dogma": a principle or set of principles laid down by an authority as incontrovertibly true.
Does this sound like Ray's philosophy to you? No one is suggesting his beliefs can't be challenged here apart from you. From what I see they frequently are.

I'd be careful with the blanket statements about estrogen. All estrogens are not created equal, but some are perhaps more equal than others. Take a look at the form of estrogen used in those studies (yes I've read far too many of them! Notice a pattern? And usually it's paired with another substance. How convenient. Now why would that be?

You make a lot of gross generalisations about women including the size of some of their organs which have little basis. Which women? What if you were to account for body mass, health and age? Pre or post menopause? Would your generalisations remain true?

You are of course entitled to your opinions. I just disagree with the majority of your post above.

I'm off for some progesterone...
 

GenericName86

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Travis, a former member of this forum, has some great read. Look for his theory of hairloss.
The immune function plays a role. I read about psoriasis patients with IL-17A therapy induced hypertrichosis.
I remember quite a long time ago on a hair loss forum there was talk of an RA drug that regrew hair in patients but I can't remember if it was patients that had mpb or some other alopecia but the drug in question came with some pretty bad and potential side effects though iirc.
 
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I remember quite a long time ago on a hair loss forum there was talk of an RA drug that regrew hair in patients but I can't remember if it was patients that had mpb or some other alopecia but the drug in question came with some pretty bad and potential side effects though iirc.

Benoxaprofen or Cyclosporin.
 
OP
GorillaHead

GorillaHead

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I looked up the drug after making that post and the one i read about was Xeljanz, don't know if it's just a different name for the ones you posted.
it regrows hair yes but not for mpb. People who few back hair grew hair everywhere except in the mpb areas.
 

LeeLemonoil

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AIs don‘t work. Both estrogens and aromatase are needed locally for normal hair growth and regrowth. Taking AIs will make the Nlrp3-pathway angle worse.

You can have metabolic, immunological, inflammatory, steroidal causes that all can set in motion mpb - and somewhere among the line all these pathways intertwine.

I still don’t understand why people that are affected aren’t trying topical alpha-ketoglutarat which seems the latest most promising treatment option according to murine trials and it is a harmless substance compared with progesterone, Spiro, Retinoic acids, AIs, 5Ar-inhibitors abd what have you not tried before
 

PurpleHeart

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Joined
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Messages
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Probably my favourite Ray Peat article:


Blood levels are pretty much irrelevant. Just a reflection of stress related eb and flow. Blood is indicative of transportation, not utilisation. The luteal phase quote is especially relevant.

I'd suggest having a look at female hormones during the luteal phase and see if your postulations on progesterone remain true.

Cracking older post from Danny:


View: https://m.facebook.com/thedannyroddyweblog/posts/1545815608774090?locale2=pt_BR


Anything that opposes cortisol will improve hair loss as it would improve the condition of any other organ in the human organism. Having tested this theory on myself, I concur. Care to test the estrogen theory on yourself? My advice would be please do not.

"Dogma": a principle or set of principles laid down by an authority as incontrovertibly true.
Does this sound like Ray's philosophy to you? No one is suggesting his beliefs can't be challenged here apart from you. From what I see they frequently are.

I'd be careful with the blanket statements about estrogen. All estrogens are not created equal, but some are perhaps more equal than others. Take a look at the form of estrogen used in those studies (yes I've read far too many of them! Notice a pattern? And usually it's paired with another substance. How convenient. Now why would that be?

You make a lot of gross generalisations about women including the size of some of their organs which have little basis. Which women? What if you were to account for body mass, health and age? Pre or post menopause? Would your generalisations remain true?

You are of course entitled to your opinions. I just disagree with the majority of your post above.

I'm off for some progesterone...

So Why supplementing progesterone does nothing?
 

Mossy

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Jun 2, 2017
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AIs don‘t work. Both estrogens and aromatase are needed locally for normal hair growth and regrowth. Taking AIs will make the Nlrp3-pathway angle worse.

You can have metabolic, immunological, inflammatory, steroidal causes that all can set in motion mpb - and somewhere among the line all these pathways intertwine.

I still don’t understand why people that are affected aren’t trying topical alpha-ketoglutarat which seems the latest most promising treatment option according to murine trials and it is a harmless substance compared with progesterone, Spiro, Retinoic acids, AIs, 5Ar-inhibitors abd what have you not tried before
I remember reading about a calcium version of alpha-ketoglutarat on the is forum; or are you referring to the acid? Like: Amazon product ASIN B08QB8PQW5View: https://www.amazon.com/Supplement-Ketoglutaric-Double-Wood-Supplements/dp/B08QB8PQW5/ref=mp_s_a_1_10?dchild=1&keywords=alpha-ketoglutarat&qid=1628165477&sr=8-10#aw-udpv3-customer-reviews_feature_div
 

Mossy

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Gerard1989

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Estrogen supplementation reverses hair loss to a significant degree, anyone who denies that fact is closing his eyes to facts and bases his opinion on pure emotionalisms
and dogma that is only supported in this forum, I have seen enough evidence of estrogen supplementation along with antiandrogens like spironolactone reversing hair loss, also women have 20 times as much estrogen as men do along with higher prolactin and similar progesterone, women have smaller livers, weaker thyroids, eat less calories on average, go on crush diets much more than men do in average etc.
Hi there. Could you maybe point us towards some of the evidence that you have encountered of estrogen supplementation having resulted in significant hair regrowth? So far, I have seen only one such example, a member of the forum HairLossTalk, bridgeburn. Exploring The Hormonal Route. Hair=life. To be honest, I am at abit of a loss as to what to think. On the one hand, it is somewhat difficult to argue with a person who can produce images of his hair before his having used a given treatment and also images of his hair having improved significantly from use of the treatment. But a careful read of this person’s post will reveal that his use of estrogen is only as effective as he construes. He claims that he observed results only days after switching from a less potent estrogen to a more potent one and also after increasing the dose of the more potent estrogen but this could be mere coincidence. What if those results owed to some of the other treatments that he admits to have been using concurrently with the estrogen? Nevermind that he had been using 50 mg of Cyproterone Acetate daily, which is said to have a strong progesterone potency. He was also using Minoxidil! It is also very difficult to believe that any treatment for hair loss can produce results in a matter of days.
 

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