Some Doctors Moving Away From Ventilators For Virus Patients

[Beastmode]

You shoulda told him you have a PhD in Organic Pulp Container Resuscitation Science. He would then bow down and assisted you.

Or to brag about your RPF membership. simply say you have a PhD in OPCR Science.

I wanted to give her a mexican coke so her blood sugar can balance after some easy bag breathing.

Everyone is doing the best they can at the level of understanding. Unfortunately, the young lady wasn't getting the best help.

 

[achillea]

HUGE! MN Senator and Doctor: Hospitals Get Paid More to List Patients as COVID-19 and Three Times as Much if the Patient Goes on Ventilator (VIDEO)

 

[RealNeat]

First convo: March 28th

Me: Are you guys using Losartan? It is an angiotensin receptor blocker. It should stop the inflammation being caused by ACE2 not being able to do its job because of binding by the virus. The high angiotensin is causing the problems. Also Cinanserin is an option, the combo might help from previous history!


MD: we've run out of everything it's not a treatment issue. It's a resource issue. We don't have capacity for the volume of patients.


Second convo: April 2nd


Me: I see a huge discrepancy between what you post and what hundreds of other people post on the hashtag #filmyourhospital. Any input on this?


MD: I can't fix stupid.


Me: interesting response.


Third and most current convo April 8th


Me: (in response to his story) So then why was it announced that we are taking a "liberal" approach to diagnosis of death and that even if someone doesn't die of but merely with covid (considering the PCR is actually accurate, since it wasn't meant to be used as a diagnostic tool) that it's still counted? It seems covid has replaced the cause of death for any pneumonia, cardiac arrest, stroke or whatever else. The numbers seem very inflated and falsely deemed a covid death.


MD: Because COVID can still be a cause of a heart attack or stroke. Covid is just a virus. What about the stress a virus can cause onto a body? Virus can cause sepsis. Sepsis can trigger stress that leads to a heart attack. When we fill out death certificates we actually have to write 5 things. One thing causes presumably by another thing causes presumably by another thing...etc COVID can also cause viral myocarditis directly


Me: You think it's right to go off of conjecture?


MD: Yes, during a pandemic, if you hear hooves in Central Park, don’t think of zebras


Me: This is a common occurrence and not unique to covid.


MD: What’s the most prevalent thing right now? COVID 19.


Me: Umm no? Everything else is also prevalent like all the other Coronavirus.


MD: If it weren’t for covid19 then we can think of other things. Maybe the life would’ve been saved actually. Maybe it wouldn’t be a reportable death. Because of a pandemic EMS couldn’t reach state. I don’t make the rules. This is a nationwide epidemiologist call.


Me: it's just odd.


MD: I’m a grunt in the trenches. Not an epidemiologist. You’re asking the wrong person. Everything is also prevalent. I still get my heart attacks. But why are they dying unnecessarily? Why are their bodies being left behind?


Me: Why have we based flattening the curve off of people diagnosed with covid rather than those who require hospitalization?

MD: I don't understand you question? You live in a society that believes that if it weren’t for the constraints of a pandemic that life would’ve been saved. Hence the pandemic is still an indirect cause.

Me: Only small percentage of people who get covid will require hospitalization. That flattening of the curve is to help the hospitals. But it seems the models and graphs you see are basing it off of everyone infected not just that percentage. I just don't see this thing big enough to do all the damage it's doing in every other way, from suicides, to domestic violence, to impeding people's rights, to extremely sensationalist headlines. It all seems really off.


MD: It sounds like you’re saying that COVID 19 has a more profound negative impact on suicides, domestic violence? Or are you saying COVID 19 is not a big deal?


Me: Letting the low risk continue life and get herd immunity seems way more logical. In most of the population yes.


MD: I had a 40 year old die. A 30 year paralyzed for life from a stroke.


Me: yes and so did a 16 year old.


MD: all covid


Me: We can't stop life because of these outliers.


MD: 5 of my nurses are dead. 3 of my doctors are dead


Me: High viral exposure I'm sorry to hear


MD: A few dead babies.

McDonald’s makes 3 billion burgers a year. What COVID 19 is doing is driving up to a single McDonald’s and ordering 50,000 burgers in one day. That’s why it’s different. It's killing people too fast. It’s not going to reach cancer or aids. But it's killing people faster.


Me: Or is it the intubation? Or the co infection? Or the oxygen not balanced with co2 "Carbogen"? Or the antivirals? I mean where to facts start and politics end?


MD: The fire is burning down a building really really fast. And you care more about what caused the fire when we’re still trying to put out a fire. I’m the firefighter stuck in this burning building. And you’re asking me if it could be foul play, an electrical fire, a chemical fire...maybe it’s my firehoses causing the fire? And I’m like “srsly” “Do you not see, um, we have a fire.”


Me: no no. I'm saying you and everyone else will have a much bigger fire to deal with if people don't realize what is happening because of the virus in other ways than what's being attributed to it, the hospitalization.


MD: Sure, but we don’t have the luxury of time or resources to truly know yet. And perhaps it would be better to figure it out responsibly and carefully. And not jump to conclusions.


Me: I'm not doubting what you are going through in a crowded city, even though there is a whole lot of first hand evidence showing empty hospitals and activity all together. However you know his isn't the case country wide so why is every single persons rights being taken away?


MD: Would you be opposed to let the evidence reveal itself in responsible, more thoughtful way than believe that Santa Claus exists? My hospitals were not empty. I had someone die in the waiting room. Just because someone posts a video that Santa Claus is real doesn’t mean Santa Claus is real.


Me: You think me saying "don't close the country for a virus that will go through the population with a low death rate and mild cold for most people " is akin to believing in Santa? If you choose who lives or dies what about all the other people who live or die because of this lockdown? Not just because of disease.


MD: What COVID 19 is doing is driving up to a single McDonald’s and ordering 50,000 burgers in one day. 50,000 burgers is a low death rate compared to 3 billion burgers a year. But it’s an overwhelming rate if it happens in one day. I can’t fix stupid..


Me: Except only some of those people eating burgers will get food poising to actually go to the hospital.


MD: I don’t think you understand. Burger is death. People are dying fast and young. A lot in a short amount of time.


Me: Yes they are. But what percentage of infected are they? The the set sucks, so inflate away.


MD: I would prefer if nobody had to unnecessarily die, wouldn’t you? Would you be opposed to unnecessary death?


Me: Yes absolutely so let's stop the lockdown.


MD: You’re talking to the wrong person. Why don’t you write a letter to Donald trump? I didn’t start the lockdown. He did.


Me: You don't think the lockdown itself is a issue?


MD: No, it’s not an issue. I like my ERs empty and clean.


Me: Or a poorly tested Dna vaccine for a virus that mutates too quickly?


MD: If it prevents some ***hole coming to my Er for a work note then **** yeah. They should stay home and not spread it to grandma.


Me: Nope grandma should stay home.


MD: Grandma comes to my Er for Med refills. She should stay the **** home.


Me: The rest of us should you know, get the country working again.


MD: Yeah but your grandma will still get it and die.


Me: We're going around in circles. I appreciate what you do. But I don't agree we are doing the right thing.


MD: ‍ you’re going around in circles lol. Haha you don’t have to. I’m a simple man. I see fire, I put it out. I think you need to speak to like a detective. Or an architect. Not a firefighter.


Me: People are having difficulty getting prescriptions, committing suicide, people are being released from prisons. Home violence is high. Police aren't answering certain calls. Small businesses are sinking. People can't pay rent or food.


MD: ‍ people are scared


Me: But no, for a percentage of people who have yet to exceed multiple other mortalities every year we shut the country.


MD: Are you opposed to the idea that you can’t run a successful economy based on a broken healthcare system where there’s a virus that kills many doctors and nurses quickly and easily. Because 20% of us are dropping out from COVID 19. Why I have so many shifts to work. Then I'll get sick. And then keep this up who’s left to take care of you when it’s your turn?


Me: of or with? Why haven't you gone yet? I hope you don't. I'm literally asking why.


MD: Why haven’t I stopped working? Because it’s a calling. I’m a simple man. I see fire, I put it out. I dont walk away. Cause America. I’m kind of a savage badass. I see **** to kick, I kick it. If doctors are sick, I fill in. But COVID 19 is killing too many. One day we won’t have enough to sustain our health care system and do you believe we can have a successful economy on a broken healthcare system?


Me: No no why hasn't Covid taken you out? You are exposed to that massive viral load?


MD: Because I think I got sick from it from a trip 3 months ago. I travel a lot. One day I had a weird fever and then I went apeshit on some ginger tea, sweat that ***t out in Angola, and after feeling like death for a week, I got better. Or Mauritania. Some hot country. But the sweating made me burn it out.


Me: Do you think this hysteria has so much to do with the admissions? How can people not freak out in this environment and come to a hospital like yours and get infected even if they weren't? Fear can activate retro viruses alone. The psychological burden is huge.


MD: ‍ I’m not an epidemiologist. Definitely. That’s why I send most everyone home. I dont let them come into the Er where they can get punched in the face by a drunk. Or be coughed on by grandma.


Me: So if you send most hope how are you over crowded?


MD: Because most other doctors are more conservative than I am. I’m a young badass liberal doctor. Other doctors play it safe and admit everyone. That’s most actually.


Me: Ventilation seems to be causing big issues.


MD: Yeah I don’t prophylactically intubate. So you’re complaining to the wrong person. I put people on ventilators only when I dont have a choice.


Me: So these people just come in and collapse and die?


MD: yep! They collapse and die but I can keep anyone alive forever if I wanted to. So we give them artificial drugs to keep their hearts going. And we think we’re helping them. But they’re just bodies with artificially beating hearts. And families want to keep them alive longer to say goodbye or “to do something." So we keep them all alive artificially. Hospitals keep getting fuller. I feel like I’m in a zombie movie or some horror show.


Me: What's the pattern you see? In these people who are soon to die?


MD: They look great, have no history, and then they pass out and go into cardiac arrest from ARDS drowning syndrome. And then we restart their heart, put them on drugs, and then admit them to the ICU. then they wait downstairs in the Er under the care of the ICU team Until they die a few days later.


Me: Before or after admission


MD: Still in the ER.


Me: There is a doctor online in New York saying it seems like the people he is treating are having major high altitude sickness like symptoms rather than ARDS.


MD: it’s called HAPE. HAPE actually is similar to ARDS. your lungs are full of water. With ARDS it’s full of water with neutrophils. With HAPE it’s full of just water.


Me: Acetazolamide helps many in that circumstance.


MD: I take acetazolamide for AMS. it’s fine, it just takes a long time to get from the pharmacy. Not an ER thing, You have to ask ICU.


Me: Counter intuitive to most but co2 retention helps high altitude acclimation.


MD: Yes but that’s to prevent. Once you have HAPE you still have to intubate and ventilate if they can’t breathe. Same as ARDS. That's why I'm a simple man. In the ER we treat same way. No matter the cause because the end result is death anyway. We don’t have time to figure out if it’s ARDS or HAPE. but it doesn’t matter since if you can’t breathe and oxygen isn’t working, we have to intubated. Otherwise you can perseverate and pontificate co2 vs no intubation bla bla bla upstairs with the icu doctor. I’m not them. You’re talking to the wrong person.


After some short talk that isn't that important.


Me: I'm just not seeing a unifying theory here so I'm just digging. Rather than sitting watching Netflix with my head in the sand.


MD: There’s no unifying theory, because nobody knows enough about this. I’m the guy you see in the ER who decides if you’re gonna live or die right this second. And if you’re not going to die anytime soon, then get the **** out of my ER. you’re just going to catch a hospital infection and then die if you stay any longer. If you are going to die then I turn seconds into months. So that you see another doctor who’s way smarter than I am to figure why you’re dying.


Me: my grandpa died of a hospital infection after pulling out his feeding tube.


MD: Yeah well, that’s why I think hospitals are horrible places to go.

Unless you absolutely have no other choice. Most doctors would disagree Because $$$$ or fear of lawsuits. But I protect my patients, not myself.


Me: Why do you think New York is deems the hotspot. If China didn't report cases for a while it must have spread there long ago. If anything they should have the most immunity.


MD: Again this is a conversation you should be having with the epidemiologist, not me. I personally do not care. I see fire, I put it out. I go home. You’re not paying me enough to care about these questions. Maybe when I’m on vacation. I already have enough on my plate. I can’t fix stupid. I can’t save the world alone.


Me: Yeah I don't trust them currently so I'll have to find one. I get ya. Well good luck. Are the hospitals overwhelmed or not?


MD: They’ve come down this week because everyone freaked out and stayed home.


Me: interesting.


MD: Which was a big help because more people are surviving because more attention Are being paid to them. When they were being crowded and overwhelmed last week, so many patients died because they were being ignored.


Me: I mean you watch the news ... they make it seems like a altoid in a coke.


MD: Yes that was last week and the week before. I’m only talking about emergency rooms. Patients are dying at an alarming rate upstairs. In the emergency room’s last week people were dying in the waiting rooms. Like I literally walked in and passed three dead bodies. I started my shift with a doctor signing out two dead bodies to me without realizing they were already dead.


Me: Mixed within the people freaking out.


MD: Yes and the people freaking out ended up catching the virus and now I’m coming back in this week sick as ***t.


Me: And this is abnormal?


MD: It’s abnormal to die in the waiting room. It’s abnormal to begin a shift with two dead bodies that the doctor didn’t know about. It’s abnormal to have five of your nurses die. It’s abnormal to have waiting times be 12 hours. It’s abnormal to have 85 hours to wait for a bed upstairs. It’s abnormal to have a pediatric neurosurgeon die. It’s abnormal to have an 18-year-old on ECMO. It’s abnormal to have a 30-year-old woman be permanently paralyzed from a stroke. It’s abnormal to have countless 40-year-olds die from a virus.


Me: But so are the waiting times. I'm more so seeing a response by the masses issue. Which I blame in part on the media hysteria. Once again, I'm not of the agreement that this is from the virus . With maybe but from needs to be proven. These are in your hospital?


MD: These are in all my hospitals. Every ER, I’ve seen it. Weird ******* **** ***t. Are you a virologist? What medical school did you go to? I’m not the right person to ask.


Me: It's the education not the method that matters. I avoid doctors because I trust them so little. They've done nothing for me ever. And made my entire family suffer. I don't blame all. But that's my experience.


MD: Right, so what education makes you qualified for know what’s going on? I’m genuinely asking.


Me: 10 years of research I this field. Not for qualification, but to save me my family and friends. I haven't even graduated college.


MD: I spent 10 years researching Starcraft. I spent 10 years breakdancing. Still can’t make it to the Red Bull battle. Some 6 year old qualified though. It’s just not fair. Yeah I breakdance everyday. This 6 year old does it for 3 weeks, 4-5 times a week.


Me: Yes 10 years is definitely determined by the daily commitment one puts forth. But I know friends from high school who became "doctors." And I'm more of a doctor then they'll ever be. Doctor means a teacher. All these guys do is write unnecessary prescriptions for people seeking genuine help.


MD: I think you’re talking to the wrong doctor then. I’m the one who believes in medicine is bad for you and I sent people home instead of over treating it over testing. I only do medicine if you actually have no other choice. And I haven’t prescribed anything in recent memory. Because I think the best medicine is to do nothing and just let your body handle it naturally. Unless you’re on death’s door.


Me: It's not fair for me to generalize, That's why I said in my experience. Maybe if I came across one like you I wouldn't have this viewpoint. But neither me or my family have.


MD: I guess you grew up in the wrong place. There’s plenty of us in New York City. We're just the young ones.


Me: I guess so.


MD: Saying among emergency room doctors, "don’t just do something, stand there." Sometimes doing nothing actually is better. There’s always the next life. Maybe do some rain dances.


Me: Most cases, like prostate cancer. Sure rain dances seem to work better. At least you don't get a feeding tube full of death. Anyway, I won't waste more of your time. Good luck out there.


MD: I think Feeding tubes are malpractice. There is literally no benefit to a feeding tube other than vindictive torture. You must really have to hate someone to give them a feeding tube.


Me: I'm glad you think so. In what way do you view it as such?


MD: People who go on feeding tubes don’t survive any longer than people without them. Therefore it’s an unnecessary procedure. And if you’re going to do any procedures that doesn’t have any benefit, then you’re just causing unnecessary harm.


Me: I'm more so of that thought unless there's actually no hope, that it's because of its contents. My friends dad who had covid apparently was being fed maltodextrin, soy oil and whey. She convinced them to use something higher quality. Soy oil is immunosuppressive, majorly so.


MD: Families that request a feeding tube usually are selfish and they just want to feel like they’re doing everything. I’m not a nutritionist.

Yes doctors tell families the feeding tube don’t add any quality of life or extend life by any means. But the families request it anyway because they can feel better about themselves.


Me: you don't have to be a nutritionist to see that it's inadequate Or appropriate.


MD: But that’s not my area. Thank God I don’t have to have these conversations in emergency room. Just my opinion. Natural is better. Unless you’re in death’s door. I’m talking about old people and end-stage cancer folks.


Me: Well my fiends dad did survive and was released 2 weeks ago.


MD: If you’re young and need a feeding tube for something temporary, that’s different.


Me: How do you have time to talk to me?


MD: I’m kind of a bad ****.


Me: So you don't care or have any opinion on this whole thing? You just wanna do your thing until it's over? I'm just saying if I was in your position my desire to know wtf is actually going on would be immense, honestly I'd probably die from no sleep and investigation.


MD: Lol do you know what I do? Do you know how I became a doctor? I lost a bet while I was bartending and drunk. And I’m a man of my word so when I lost the bet I had to apply to medical school. And I did not expect to get in, but then one school took me, and a part of the bet was to keep going until I failed out. At the same time I met a girl, and the next morning she told me to follow her to Egypt. I lost another bet and ended up going the next day. After that I decided to travel the world and see it as many countries as I could. So every three weeks during medical school and residency I left the country for a weekend or for a few days. And I’ve been to 191 countries in the last 10 years.


Me: Ok but you see people dying now, doesn't that make you curious?


MD: I don’t have time to be curious.


Me: I know but are you?


MD: A firefighter in the building that’s burning doesn’t have time to be curious. Again I don't have time to be curious.


Me: You have time to talk to me, you have time to be curious.


MD: one thing at a time. No man I’m a really good multitasker. I can do five things at once. What I can’t do is think deeply. And you’re asking me to think deeply and be curious. I can only do that when I’m traveling. So until the next trip then maybe ask me. Right now Traveling is kind of irresponsible so that’s not gonna happen anytime soon. Speaking with you is doesn’t take a lot of mental effort. Asking me to be curious does.


Me: Well then I guess I'll do the deep thinking on your part, because this whole thing is all sorts of fd up. 1+1 doesn't equal 2 anymore. I'm slightly offended. Jk.


MD: Whatever you want to do. The world is your oyster.

his page on IG: monsoondiaries


@charlie

 

[TheSir]

@RealNeat thanks for sharing. I get that this is NY, but the situation over there still sounds worse than I thought. Probably a very extraordinary time and place to be a health care worker.

 

[Beastmode]

What is the medical term for the oxygen/Co2 mix doctors use to use in the past for treatments?

My grandma is in ICU and they're pumping her with pure oxygen and I'm trying to get them to stop.

 

[boris]

@Beastmode Carbogen

 

[tankasnowgod]

Coronavirus ventilators: Most COVID-19 patients don't come off machine

I know this is from months ago, but apparently, most people who go on ventilators (for any reason) don't come off the machine alive.

 

[Beastmode]

@Beastmode Carbogen

Thank you!

 

[Regina]

They'll get their Florida numbers up

54 Florida hospital ICUs have reached capacity as Miami-Dade county reports Covid-19 ventilator use is up 92%