Solved? - IBS, SIBO, GERD, LPR, Colitis, Constipation, Celiac, Brain Fog

[Elize]

What is Thiamine and B3 derived from? I got severe body aches using B1 HCL. The only other thing I use is Levothyroxine as Tirosint-Sol.

 

[charlie]

For about the last week I've been taking 250 mg's of Niacin 3 times a day with meals. It's been making me feel more depressed. I'm backing down to just once a day to see how this works out.

That's a pretty hefty dose to start with. Gerson liked 40-50mg a few times a day.

I got severe body aches using B1 HCL.

I wonder if that is the refeeding syndrome that Dr. Lonsdale talks about.

 

[redsun]

That's a pretty hefty dose to start with. Gerson liked 40-50mg a few times a day.


I wonder if that is the refeeding syndrome that Dr. Lonsdale talks about.

Does he mention anywhere about the ratio of thiamine to magnesium?

 

[charlie]

Does he mention anywhere about the ratio of thiamine to magnesium?

I cannot remember offhand but I am scanning through his blog again and will keep an eye out for it.

 

[BigChad]

Fasting, even for up to 4 days, never did anything for me in the long run.

Yes it provoked temporary relief, but only because the bacteria wasn't being fed as Haidut mentioned, so endotoxins production was lowered.

The bacteria just remained dormant, and came back in full force after eating resumed.

What if you fasted longer like weeks. Would the bacteria be killed off. Or would taking olive leaf kill them off. How do you get rid of them

 

[BigChad]

Because the liver is a major controller of distribution, and bypassing it is skipping a regulatory step. Nutrients in the bloodystream will eventually get to it, but only after reaching other tissues first. Energin is meant for topical use, and even though the oral route is superior, transdermal is good enough (with some advantages such as the one that we're discussing).

Regarding the shy improvements, it's probably something else, I would try to up magnesium, copper, creatine, calcium with mk-4, ribose, ubiquinol, hydroxocobalamin, methylfolate/folinic acid, betaine, choline, inositol, etc.; some of these are not difficult to obtain from diet.

Is regular folic acid okay. I thought betaine and choline are not advised due to promoting methylation, other issues

 

[Amazoniac]

Is regular folic acid okay. I thought betaine and choline are not advised due to promoting methylation, other issues

I can't think of a good reason to use it instead of natural forms.

If you're concerned about it, you can spare the two with creatine.

I should comment that in theory the oxidized ubiquinone form should be favored over ubiquinol (it's also cheaper), or perhaps mk-4. But after reading the following publications (with some suspicion that both might not be correct) and knowing that either form is safe, it's worth a try.

- Kuinone - Liquid Vitamin K2 (MK-4)

- Ubiquinol is superior to ubiquinone to enhance Coenzyme Q10 status in older men

"Ubiquinone, the most common form in CoQ10 supplements, has a very low bioavailability because of its considerable lipophilicity, crystalline state, and high molecular weight.[13] The inferiority of ubiquinone to ubiquinol in the bioavailability has been demonstrated in a few acute pharmacokinetic trials.[14–16]"

"Failla et al. observed in a cell culture study that a reduced intracellular environment was necessary to facilitate the absorption of both CoQ10 in the small intestine and subsequent secretion to the circulation.[17] Thus, we hypothesized that ubiquinol would be more bioavailable than ubiquinone in older adults with a low total antioxidant capacity status and total thiol content."

"[..]higher than “normal” plasma CoQ10 concentration, e.g., >2.78 μmol/L, is required to promote CoQ10 uptake into peripheral tissues and to cross the blood–brain barrier.[7]"

"In this study, we found that CoQ10 supplement in the ubiquinol form could achieve this threshold of 2.78 μmol/L, but not ubiquinone, in the older adults who are likely to use this supplement."

There wased inter and individual variances.​

Wow is topical?

 

[Kray]

Liverwurst is loaded with pufa laden pig fat.

A great liverwurst, order online, no piggy, all cow. Delicious. Sliced and pan-fried in coconut oil tastes like hamburgers. This product also contains heart and kidney along with liver. Beef Liverwurst - 1 lb - Order Liver Sausage Online | US Wellness Meats

 

[Kray]

A great liverwurst, order online, no piggy, all cow. Delicious. Sliced and pan-fried in coconut oil tastes like hamburgers. This product also contains heart and kidney along with liver. Beef Liverwurst - 1 lb - Order Liver Sausage Online | US Wellness Meats

And here is the nutritional yeast I have used, imported, non-fortified, seemed to have good overall amounts of Bs: https://www.vitacost.com/kal-nutritional-yeast-fine-flakes-14-8-oz

 

[Kray]

Eh, not really. 8 oz of liverwurst has 2.6 gram of pufa, as long as the rest of the diet is low pufa it's still easy enough to be under 4 gram of pufa that day.

Also pretty sure wellness meats uses beef not pork

Beef Liverwurst - 1 lb - Order Liver Sausage Online | US Wellness Meats

Have you tried it- it's great IMO

 

[BigChad]

I can't think of a good reason to use it instead of natural forms.

If you're concerned about it, you can spare the two with creatine.

I should comment that in theory the oxidized ubiquinone form should be favored over ubiquinol (it's also cheaper), or perhaps mk-4. But after reading the following publications (with some suspicion that both might not be correct) and knowing that either form is safe, it's worth a try.

- Kuinone - Liquid Vitamin K2 (MK-4)

- Ubiquinol is superior to ubiquinone to enhance Coenzyme Q10 status in older men

"Ubiquinone, the most common form in CoQ10 supplements, has a very low bioavailability because of its considerable lipophilicity, crystalline state, and high molecular weight.[13] The inferiority of ubiquinone to ubiquinol in the bioavailability has been demonstrated in a few acute pharmacokinetic trials.[14–16]"

"Failla et al. observed in a cell culture study that a reduced intracellular environment was necessary to facilitate the absorption of both CoQ10 in the small intestine and subsequent secretion to the circulation.[17] Thus, we hypothesized that ubiquinol would be more bioavailable than ubiquinone in older adults with a low total antioxidant capacity status and total thiol content."

"[..]higher than “normal” plasma CoQ10 concentration, e.g., >2.78 μmol/L, is required to promote CoQ10 uptake into peripheral tissues and to cross the blood–brain barrier.[7]"

"In this study, we found that CoQ10 supplement in the ubiquinol form could achieve this threshold of 2.78 μmol/L, but not ubiquinone, in the older adults who are likely to use this supplement."

View attachment 14530
There wased inter and individual variances.​

Wow is topical?

Folinic acid should be ok, i read some on here mentioned to avoid all methyl b supplements.

I heard that ubiquinone and ubiquinol convert into each other in the body and that ubiquinone is preferred, unless prices are comparable. Apparently ubiquinol is only slightly superior to ubiquinone?

I wonder how creatine and beta alanine affect things when one has an autoimmune condition. For example mk4 even high doses seems to have no side effects except everyone with autoimmune or hypothyroid conditions report mk4 causing increased hair shedding, hairline receding.

 

[TheBeard]

What if you fasted longer like weeks. Would the bacteria be killed off. Or would taking olive leaf kill them off. How do you get rid of them

No idea

 

[Amazoniac]

Folinic acid should be ok, i read some on here mentioned to avoid all methyl b supplements.

I heard that ubiquinone and ubiquinol convert into each other in the body and that ubiquinone is preferred, unless prices are comparable. Apparently ubiquinol is only slightly superior to ubiquinone?

I wonder how creatine and beta alanine affect things when one has an autoimmune condition. For example mk4 even high doses seems to have no side effects except everyone with autoimmune or hypothyroid conditions report mk4 causing increased hair shedding, hairline receding.

It isn't a substantial source, it will mostly help in transfering them. Even Raj admits it:
- Ray Peat Email Exchanges - Ray Peat Forum Wiki

I guess that both forms are fine.

Whenever experienced bodybuilders are asked what supplements they would choose if they had to prioritize their choices, creatine is often mentioned, sometimes as the preferred one; it's potent. It must not be harmful in autoimmunity, might aid burdened tissues to regenerate, what I'm more wary about is its long-term safety in terms of kidneys and prostate.

 

[BigChad]

It isn't a substantial source, it will mostly help in transfering them. Even Raj admits it:
- Ray Peat Email Exchanges - Ray Peat Forum Wiki

I guess that both forms are fine.

Whenever experienced bodybuilders are asked what supplements they would choose if they had to prioritize their choices, creatine is often mentioned, sometimes as the preferred one; it's potent. It must not be harmful in autoimmunity, might aid burdened tissues to regenerate, what I'm more wary about is its long-term safety in terms of kidneys and prostate.

Thats a good link to review.

Thats true the methyl b amounts are so small.

Are choline and betaine both needed or could betaine cover for choline? As far as supplements i think betaine is made synthetically while choline supps are soy or sunflower based. Also fish oil supposedly raises acetylcholine does that mean it also spares choline

 

[Amazoniac]

I can't think of a good reason to use it instead of natural forms.

If you're concerned about it, you can spare the two with creatine.

I should comment that in theory the oxidized ubiquinone form should be favored over ubiquinol (it's also cheaper), or perhaps mk-4. But after reading the following publications (with some suspicion that both might not be correct) and knowing that either form is safe, it's worth a try.

- Kuinone - Liquid Vitamin K2 (MK-4)

- Ubiquinol is superior to ubiquinone to enhance Coenzyme Q10 status in older men

"Ubiquinone, the most common form in CoQ10 supplements, has a very low bioavailability because of its considerable lipophilicity, crystalline state, and high molecular weight.[13] The inferiority of ubiquinone to ubiquinol in the bioavailability has been demonstrated in a few acute pharmacokinetic trials.[14–16]"

"Failla et al. observed in a cell culture study that a reduced intracellular environment was necessary to facilitate the absorption of both CoQ10 in the small intestine and subsequent secretion to the circulation.[17] Thus, we hypothesized that ubiquinol would be more bioavailable than ubiquinone in older adults with a low total antioxidant capacity status and total thiol content."

"[..]higher than “normal” plasma CoQ10 concentration, e.g., >2.78 μmol/L, is required to promote CoQ10 uptake into peripheral tissues and to cross the blood–brain barrier.[7]"

"In this study, we found that CoQ10 supplement in the ubiquinol form could achieve this threshold of 2.78 μmol/L, but not ubiquinone, in the older adults who are likely to use this supplement."

View attachment 14530
There wased inter and individual variances.​

Wow is topical?

- Coenzyme Q10 and Degenerative Disorders Affecting Longevity: An Overview

"Some supplement manufacturers have claimed that the ubiquinol form is more bioavailable, based on the concept that absorption of CoQ10 into enterocyte cells was thought to require reduction of ubiquinone to ubiquinol, and presentation of supplemental CoQ10 in ubiquinol form facilitated this absorption, particularly in patients with malabsorption disorders. However, work by Judy [74] demonstrated that reduction of ubiquinone to ubiquinol takes place within the lymphatic system rather than during absorption by enterocytes; in addition, during the time of transit from the stomach to the small intestine (typically 2–5 h), CoQ10 in reduced form would be oxidised to ubiquinone, a process taking approximately 80 minutes in simulated gastric conditions [74]. In the study by Lopez-Lluch et al. [68] in human subjects, the bioavailability of CoQ10 in ubiquinone form, when properly dispersed in carrier oil, was approximately twice that of the corresponding ubiquinol form; thus, it is the crystal dispersion status, rather than redox status, of the CoQ10 that essentially determines bioavailability."​

- The History of Coenzyme Q10 Research | Pharma Nord

Spoiler

"Following the ingestion of ubiquinol, the CoQ10 begins to be converted to ubiquinone in the stomach because of the high hydrogen ion concentration. In the small intestine, the CoQ10 is almost entirely in the form of ubiquinone. In the distal lymph duct, the CoQ10 is, initially, in the ubiquinone form. The absorbed ubiquinone then begins to be converted to ubiquinol. By the time that the CoQ10 has passed from the lymph to blood, the total ubiquinol percentage is 96%, and the ubiquinone percentage is 4%. These data show the redox conversion of ubiquinol to ubiquinone in the stomach and small intestine and the conversion from ubiquinone to ubiquinol in the lymph ducts on the way to the systemic circulation."​

 

[Zpol]

I have B1 deficiency. I have been taking 600 to 800 mg benfotiamine. I would like to switch to Allithiamine but I can't find a clean one. I am highly intolerant to rice flour. The Ecological Formulas one has a bunch of questionable other ingredients. Is there any other clean ones? Oh I wish @haidut would make one! I already take Energin. I cannot take the thiamine HCL in high dose, it hurts my stomach (I had tried the Dr. Clark kind, it's free of exipients).

Any other Allithiamine suggested brands?

I have severe villous atrophy which causes malnutrition syndrome despite a high nutrient / high quality diet (I know because that's what I spend all my free time achieving and yet still sick). Dr. Lonsdale indicates malnutrition syndrome as well, especially with bariatric surgery patients. So far there is no cure for villous atrophy that I have been able to find, except for getting rich so that you can quit your job and spend your days in nature and still afford healthy fresh foods.

 

[Orion]

I have B1 deficiency. I have been taking 600 to 800 mg benfotiamine. I would like to switch to Allithiamine but I can't find a clean one. I am highly intolerant to rice flour. The Ecological Formulas one has a bunch of questionable other ingredients. Is there any other clean ones? Oh I wish @haidut would make one! I already take Energin. I cannot take the thiamine HCL in high dose, it hurts my stomach (I had tried the Dr. Clark kind, it's free of exipients).

Any other Allithiamine suggested brands?

I have severe villous atrophy which causes malnutrition syndrome despite a high nutrient / high quality diet (I know because that's what I spend all my free time achieving and yet still sick). Dr. Lonsdale indicates malnutrition syndrome as well, especially with bariatric surgery patients. So far there is no cure for villous atrophy that I have been able to find, except for getting rich so that you can quit your job and spend your days in nature and still afford healthy fresh foods.

Have you looked into lipothiamine?

 

[charlie]

Any other Allithiamine suggested brands?

@LifeGivingStore will have it available in powder form in the near future.

 

[Zpol]

Have you looked into lipothiamine?

I checked on Amazon for the lipo kind, didn't see a safe one but I will keep looking. Thanks

@LifeGivingStore will have it available in powder form in the near future.

Yay! Glad to hear this. At this rate, LifeGivingStore will have everything I could ever want :) Thanks!

 

[RatRancher]

Charlie, quick question.. Any B3 transport issues like some people may have with B1?
And if yes, any form of niacinamide better than others?