Soluble Fiber Causes Liver Cancer, Insoluble And Antibiotics Prevent/stop It

[Kartoffel]

yeah there we have it:

"Wheat bran can also stimulate colon
carcinogenesis when fed only during carcinogen exposure. Oat bran and corn bran
may stimulate colon carcinogenesis by increasing fecal bile acid excretion, a
feature of many soluble fibers, while the acidification of large bowel contents
is associated with an increased frequency of chemically induced colonic cancers."

Experiments in laboratory animals, using chemical induction of
large bowel cancer, have in general shown a protective effect with supplements of
poorly fermentable fibers such as wheat bran or cellulose. In contrast, a number
of fermentable fiber supplements including pectin, corn bran, oat bran,
undegraded carageenan, agar, psyllium, guar gum, and alfalfa have been shown to
enhance tumor development.

"Pectin and guar provided the greatest stimulus to cell
proliferation. A lower luminal pH was associated with a higher tumor yield and
increased epithelial cell proliferation. Thus, acidification of colonic contents
by high fiber diets failed to inhibit rat colon carcinogenesis, while the
consumption of soluble fibers, such as oat bran, pectin, and guar, was associated
with enhancement of proximal colon carcinogenesis."
...

thanks @Amazoniac

If you think wheat bran is a healthy fiber, I suggest you eat a signifcant amount of it for a few days, and watch what happens. It might have some benefits for rats, if you look at certain things in isolation, but for humans it is just an awful thing to eat. It will destroy the lining of the intestine, cause massive persorption, and might result in serious immediate symptoms for someone with IBS.

 

[Owen B]

Wondering myself. If psyllium seed husk is almost all soluble fiber, why do so many people (especially older people) have such great luck using it for constipation? Didn't really want to get into this fiber debate, but some here say that eventually the soluble fiber contributes to constipation, yet no one I know that uses soluble fiber products, or eats soluble fiber foods complain about constipation, in fact, they rave that they rely on it to keep them regular. I know some say it keeps you regular because it is a gut irritant, which I suppose is part of the debate. There are some health experts that say psyllium seed helps seal leaky gut. I know for me, I don't use it regularly, but if I get a bout of constipation, I take a tablespoon of psyllium seed husk, and it works like a charm. Carrots do nothing for me in terms of relieving constipation, neither does wheat.

A gut irritant. Exactly. There's got to be a tradeoff between increased motility and stress. If something like psyllium is "working" is it because it is massively stressing the intestines?

In addition, I got allergic to it (psyllium). I got hives and tons of bacteria was produced by its use and worked its way up to my throat and gave me what looked like a candida infection. I got off it and all the symptoms disappeared.

My judgment is to use it only for emergency purposes, if at all.

 

[General Orange]

By the way be careful with the Cranberries on that list, are high in insoluble fiber but alas also in iodine, therefore not Peat, coz more than 300mcg 2x RDA of iodine is anti-thyroid. In 150 ml of cranberry juice, you can find up to 400 mcg of iodine.

 

[General Orange]

If you think wheat bran is a healthy fiber, I suggest you eat a signifcant amount of it for a few days, and watch what happens. It might have some benefits for rats, if you look at certain things in isolation, but for humans it is just an awful thing to eat. It will destroy the lining of the intestine, cause massive persorption, and might result in serious immediate symptoms for someone with IBS.

Is that with or w/o the Phytate?

 

[Kartoffel]

Is that with or w/o the Phytate?

What?

 

[General Orange]

What?

are those negative results of wheat bran, with reduced phytic acid or not?

 

[dreamcatcher]

Nice, thanks for that list :) True, you probably can't say "brown rice is what everyone should have" (because of the IF/SF ratio), but if you can tolerate and like the taste of brown rice, maybe its worth a try! I will say brown rice was a staple in my diet a couple years ago, and I felt pretty good back then, for what its worth, although I am well aware that there are many variables that were different back then than just the brown rice, so its just an observation. I actually really like brown rice cooked in butter. Maybe I'm weird haha.

And you're right - healing takes time. I can be impatient and want the quick solution. I think as long as I'm doing most of the right things that things should slowly improve.

Currently I eat a lot of apples, which is 2.4 on the list, and sweet potato, which is 1.7 on the list, and continue to have bloated symptoms. Maybe this suggests that at least for me, I need to be something more along the lines of at least a 4-5 ratio on average.

Have you tried the milk diet? @Cirion

The Milk Diet and Digestion | The Nourished Life

 

[General Orange]

@Kartoffel Why should wheat bran screw with the gut like that it's just lignans. Probably caused by the anti nutrient in high dosage in isolation not lignan with food. Lignan is in root vegetables too, bad also?
Please show me your sources?

 

[Dave Clark]

are those negative results of wheat bran, with reduced phytic acid or not?

According to Dr. Shamsuddin's research, I believe he felt that the reason the Finn's had a lower incidence of colon cancer wasn't necessarily because of the type of fiber, being insoluble, but because the insoluble fiber had high levels of IP-6 (phytates) compared to the soluble fiber that the Danish people ate, and the IP-6 is cancer protective. This may be a factor that most people don't consider.

 

[General Orange]

According to Dr. Shamsuddin's research, I believe he felt that the reason the Finn's had a lower incidence of colon cancer wasn't necessarily because of the type of fiber, being insoluble, but because the insoluble fiber had high levels of IP-6 (phytates) compared to the soluble fiber that the Danish people ate, and the IP-6 is cancer protective. This may be a factor that most people don't consider.

That is also stated in a earlier study mentioned here:

"...Phytase activity was found in human small intestine at low values (30 times less than that in rat tissue and 1000-fold lower than alkaline phosphatase in the same tissue). The activity was greatest in the duodenum and lowest in the ileum. In conclusion, the normal human small intestine has very limited ability to digest undegraded phytates. Although this may have adverse nutritional consequences with respect to metabolic cation imbalances, the presence of undigested phytate in the colon may protect against the development of colonic carcinoma. " - link

 

[Kartoffel]

@Kartoffel Why should wheat bran screw with the gut like that it's just lignans. Probably caused by the anti nutrient in high dosage in isolation not lignan with food. Lignan is in root vegetables too, bad also?
Please show me your sources?

The only "improvement" you might get from wheat bran is decreased transit time, because it irritates the gut so badly, and gives you diarrhoea. Doesn't matter if it has "reduced" phytic acid content.

Lancet. 1994 Jul 2;344(8914):39-40.
Bran and irritable bowel syndrome: time for reappraisal.
Francis CY1, Whorwell PJ.

Abstract
Whilst following up large numbers of patients with irritable bowel syndrome we got the impression that wholemeal wheat and bran products made people with the condition worse rather than better. One hundred consecutive new referrals, all of whom had tried bran, were questioned to resolve this issue. 55% of patients were made worse by bran whereas only 10% had found it helpful. With the exception of fruit, other forms of dietary fibre were not as detrimental and proprietary supplements were found to be beneficial. All symptoms of irritable bowel syndrome were exacerbated by bran, with bowel disturbance most often adversely affected, followed by abdominal distension and pain. The results of this study suggest that the use of bran in irritable bowel syndrome should be reconsidered. The study also raises the possibility that excessive consumption of bran in the community may actually be creating patients with irritable bowel syndrome by exacerbating mild, non-complaining cases.

Gut. 1984 Feb; 25(2): 168–173.
What is the benefit of coarse wheat bran in patients with irritable bowel syndrome?
P A Cann, N W Read, and C D Holdsworth

Abstract
The effect of open treatment with coarse wheat bran was compared with response to placebo, given in the form of a double blind, cross over drug trial, in patients with irritable bowel syndrome. Both bran and placebo significantly reduced the severity of most of the symptoms. Constipation was the only symptom that improved significantly with bran, but not with placebo, and was the only symptom that predicted a successful outcome with bran. Diarrhoea did not improve with bran. In fact, stools became less formed in patients presenting with this symptom. The incidence of pain and urgency was significantly more frequent on bran compared with placebo. Compared with a baseline period, bran treatment resulted in an acceleration of whole gut transit time (p less than 0.05) increases in daily stool weight (p less than 0.01) and the proportion of unformed stools (p less than 0.01) but no change in stool frequency. Coarse wheat bran was no better than placebo for most symptoms in irritable bowel syndrome, although its efficacy in constipation was confirmed.

 

[General Orange]

The only "improvement" you might get from wheat bran is decreased transit time, because it irritates the gut so badly, and gives you diarrhoea. Doesn't matter if it has "reduced" phytic acid content.

Lancet. 1994 Jul 2;344(8914):39-40.
Bran and irritable bowel syndrome: time for reappraisal.
Francis CY1, Whorwell PJ.

Abstract
Whilst following up large numbers of patients with irritable bowel syndrome we got the impression that wholemeal wheat and bran products made people with the condition worse rather than better. One hundred consecutive new referrals, all of whom had tried bran, were questioned to resolve this issue. 55% of patients were made worse by bran whereas only 10% had found it helpful. With the exception of fruit, other forms of dietary fibre were not as detrimental and proprietary supplements were found to be beneficial. All symptoms of irritable bowel syndrome were exacerbated by bran, with bowel disturbance most often adversely affected, followed by abdominal distension and pain. The results of this study suggest that the use of bran in irritable bowel syndrome should be reconsidered. The study also raises the possibility that excessive consumption of bran in the community may actually be creating patients with irritable bowel syndrome by exacerbating mild, non-complaining cases.

Gut. 1984 Feb; 25(2): 168–173.
What is the benefit of coarse wheat bran in patients with irritable bowel syndrome?
P A Cann, N W Read, and C D Holdsworth

Abstract
The effect of open treatment with coarse wheat bran was compared with response to placebo, given in the form of a double blind, cross over drug trial, in patients with irritable bowel syndrome. Both bran and placebo significantly reduced the severity of most of the symptoms. Constipation was the only symptom that improved significantly with bran, but not with placebo, and was the only symptom that predicted a successful outcome with bran. Diarrhoea did not improve with bran. In fact, stools became less formed in patients presenting with this symptom. The incidence of pain and urgency was significantly more frequent on bran compared with placebo. Compared with a baseline period, bran treatment resulted in an acceleration of whole gut transit time (p less than 0.05) increases in daily stool weight (p less than 0.01) and the proportion of unformed stools (p less than 0.01) but no change in stool frequency. Coarse wheat bran was no better than placebo for most symptoms in irritable bowel syndrome, although its efficacy in constipation was confirmed.

Oke that is not comfortable indeed. But they are already compromised in gut health. People without IBS still can do fine with cooked or roasted wheat bran. Makes a good indicator of gut health then I guess.

 

[Kartoffel]

Lancet. 1994 Jul 2;344(8914):39-40.
Bran and irritable bowel syndrome: time for reappraisal.
Francis CY1, Whorwell PJ.

Abstract
Whilst following up large numbers of patients with irritable bowel syndrome we got the impression that wholemeal wheat and bran products made people with the condition worse rather than better. One hundred consecutive new referrals, all of whom had tried bran, were questioned to resolve this issue. 55% of patients were made worse by bran whereas only 10% had found it helpful. With the exception of fruit, other forms of dietary fibre were not as detrimental and proprietary supplements were found to be beneficial. All symptoms of irritable bowel syndrome were exacerbated by bran, with bowel disturbance most often adversely affected, followed by abdominal distension and pain. The results of this study suggest that the use of bran in irritable bowel syndrome should be reconsidered. The study also raises the possibility that excessive consumption of bran in the community may actually be creating patients with irritable bowel syndrome by exacerbating mild, non-complaining cases.

Gut. 1984 Feb; 25(2): 168–173.
What is the benefit of coarse wheat bran in patients with irritable bowel syndrome?
P A Cann, N W Read, and C D Holdsworth

Abstract
The effect of open treatment with coarse wheat bran was compared with response to placebo, given in the form of a double blind, cross over drug trial, in patients with irritable bowel syndrome. Both bran and placebo significantly reduced the severity of most of the symptoms. Constipation was the only symptom that improved significantly with bran, but not with placebo, and was the only symptom that predicted a successful outcome with bran. Diarrhoea did not improve with bran. In fact, stools became less formed in patients presenting with this symptom. The incidence of pain and urgency was significantly more frequent on bran compared with placebo. Compared with a baseline period, bran treatment resulted in an acceleration of whole gut transit time (p less than 0.05) increases in daily stool weight (p less than 0.01) and the proportion of unformed stools (p less than 0.01) but no change in stool frequency. Coarse wheat bran was no better than placebo for most symptoms in irritable bowel syndrome, although its efficacy in constipation was confirmed.

Oke that is not comfortable indeed. But they are already compromised in gut health. People without IBS still can do fine with cooked or roasted wheat bran. Makes a good indicator of gut health then I guess.

Well, you can say that about anything. Everything toxic and irritating will be less bad for a robust and healthy person. I doubt that cooking makes it significantly more tolerable, and it would defeat the purpose of getting lots of insoluble fiber. Roasting would be overkill in terms of persorption.

 

[General Orange]

Well, you can say that about anything. Everything toxic and irritating will be less bad for a robust and healthy person. I doubt that cooking makes it significantly more tolerable, and it would defeat the purpose of getting lots of insoluble fiber. Roasting would be overkill in terms of persorption.

Yeah okay, you know what, screw the wheat bran!

 

[Kartoffel]

Yeah okay, you know what, screw the wheat bran!

That's the spirit!

 

[General Orange]

@haidut Were does the resistant starch stand in all this? They are fermented by the gut microbes into short chain fatty acids and can increase their growth. Like cooked-and-cooled potatoes, cooked-and-cooled-rice, do we eat them only freshly cooked?

 

[lollipop]

That's the spirit!

LoL you guys...tooooo Funny

 

[ecstatichamster]

Just before the public announcement, there was in interview with the lead scientists of the study which FDA used to base its decisions on. He said that neither dietary-driven cholesterol, nor serum cholesterol have been tied to CVD conclusively. And people get most of their cholesterol from food, mostly through the direct ingestion of cholesterol but also from precursors like sugar, fats, acetate, etc. So, if dietary elevations of cholesterol are irrelevant for CVD then that does not leave much else. That same study also talks about SFA not being an issue and having even less evidence than cholesterol for CVD. But author said in the interview that he does not think the public is ready for such a message because it would loose faith in the FDA for such drastic reversals on 2 things that FDA crusaded against for decades. I will find it and post it here, it was quite a read.

I would love to see that, @haidut

 

[haidut]

@haidut Were does the resistant starch stand in all this? They are fermented by the gut microbes into short chain fatty acids and can increase their growth. Like cooked-and-cooled potatoes, cooked-and-cooled-rice, do we eat them only freshly cooked?

If it feeds the bacteria and produces butyrate, and there is gut dysbiosis, then it is not a good situation regardless of the actual fiber consumed. Even sugar alcohols commonly used now as sugar substitutes increase colon fermentation and probably further contribute to dysbiosis and liver pathology.
Maltitol - Wikipedia

 

[Ihor]

@Kartoffel so, what safe fiber or other variants in your opinion are ok against of constipation and dysbiosis?