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SolBan - Liquid Aspirin/Caffeine/Niacinamide Mix

  1. I have a new supplement (SolBan) for people interested in improving skin health or management of issues like hair loss, wrinkles, aging spots, cellulite, or simply protection from the sun.
    It can be ordered from the links below:

    The supplement is for topical use only and consists of a water/ethanol solution containing niacinamide / nicotinamide, caffeine and aspirin. Each one of these ingredients has been shown in multiple human and animal experiments to be beneficial for skin health using topical administration. In addition, the combination of caffeine and niacinamide has been shown to work literally as a sunscreen so this could be an option for people who do not want to be exposed to the toxic excipients in most commercial products. While I do not claim that the product is effective for any medical condition, for information purposes I have listed a number of references below. These studies have looked at effectiveness and safety of each of the ingredients for specific conditions like UV skin damage, hair loss, photoaging, wrinkles, cellulite, skin cancer, dermatitis, acne, pruritis, eczema, psoriasis, etc.

    Perhaps the most remarkable aspect of the product is the succinic acid. In recent human trials, it has been shown that increasing ATP levels in the scalp promotes hair growth in male androgenic alopecia, also known as male pattern baldness (MPB). The trials actually used a saturated fatty acid called pentadecanoic acid topically on the scalp and found that the effectiveness of that fatty acid in restoring hair growth was due to its effects on raising scalp levels of succinic acid, and succinic acid then dramatically increased ATP levels. This is not surprising as succinic acid is a very efficient precursor of ATP. So, we added succinic acid to SolBan to replicate the design of those human clinical trials.

    Effect of the glyceride of pentadecanoic acid on energy metabolism in hair follicles
    "...The effect of the glyceride of pentadecanoic acid (PDG) in treating male pattern alopecia has already been confirmed in a double blind controlled clinical test. In order to study the mechanism of the hair growing effect of PDG, ATP levels were measured in the hair follicles of rabbits. The ATP levels in telogen hair follicles increased remarkably with the application of PDG. To examine this effect, the metabolic properties of pentadecanoic acid (PDA) were investigated using the mitochondrial fraction prepared from guinea-pig hair follicles. It was shown that PDA could be metabolized in hair follicles, and succinic acid, which was formed in the degradation process of PDA, had a remarkable ATP producing ability. These results suggest that the hair growing effect of PDG depends on the efficient supply of energy to hair follicles, and this mechanism seems to be derived from the metabolic property of the odd numbered carbon fatty acid, PDA."

    Based on the above study, pentadecanoic acid (another SFA) is now approved in Japan as topical treatment for hair loss.
    Clinical Evaluation of The Product Containing Glyceride of Pentadecanoic Acid on Male Pattern Alopecia in Women

    A combination of SolBan + Cardenosine (Cardenosine - Liquid Product For R&D) may be even more beneficial due to the additional antiinflammatory and antifibrotic effects of caffeine, niacinamide, aspirin, inosine, B6, etc.

    Here are some comments from Ray on the topic of using aspirin, caffeine and niacinamide topically on the skin.
    Cherry Angiomas (red Dots On Skin)
    "...The sun-damaged areas in rosacea can be directly provided with some of the protective factors by applying them topically. In the same way that topical lactate can cause vasodilation and disturbed energy metabolism (Rendl, et al., 2001), topical niacinamide, progesterone, vitamin K, and coenzyme Q10 can improve the metabolism and function of the local tissues. Riboflavin can probably be useful when applied topically, but because of its extreme sensitivity to light, it should usually be used only internally, unless the treated skin is covered to prevent exposure to light. Topically applied caffeine, even after sun exposure, can reduce local tissue damage (Koo, et al., 2007). Aspirin and saturated fats can also be protective when applied topically."

    Note: This product contains raw material(s) meant for external use only, in cosmetic or other formulations designed for such external use.


    SolBan is a liquid mixture of niacinamide, caffeine, and aspirin. These ingredients have been shown in multiple human clinical trials (as well as animal studies) to have a highly protective effect on the skin against a number of harmful agents and processes. The list of harmful agents and processes includes sunlight (UV), metabolic disturbances, aging (wrinkles, cellulite), hormonal imbalance (acne, eczema, melasma), stress, polyunsaturated fats (PUFA), etc.
    SolBan is available as a 20 % alcohol (ethanol) solution in a 2oz plastic spray bottle. The product is intended and sanctioned for external use only.

    Serving size: 5 sprays (about 1ml)
    Servings per container: about 60
    Each serving contains:

    Niacinamide / Nicotinamide - 40 mg
    Caffeine - 10 mg
    Salicylic acid - 10 mg
    Succinic acid - 10 mg

    Other ingredients: add product to shopping cart to see info

    The recommended method of administration is spraying the affected skin area until it has a thin layer of the solution and the letting it dry (without rubbing). The product can be used as sunscreen adjuvant (Caffeine and caffeine sodium benzoate have a sunscreen effect, enhance UVB-induced apoptosis, and inhibit UVB-induced skin carcinogenesis in SKH-1 ... - PubMed - NCBI) due to the UV-blocking properties of caffeine and niacinamide / nicotinamide.

    Nicotinic acid/niacinamide and the skin. - PubMed - NCBI
    Topical niacinamide reduces yellowing, wrinkling, red blotchiness, and hyperpigmented spots in aging facial skin. - PubMed - NCBI
    A review of nicotinamide: treatment of skin diseases and potential side effects. - PubMed - NCBI
    Nicotinic acid/niacinamide and the skin. - PubMed - NCBI
    Nicotinamide and the skin. - PubMed - NCBI
    Nicotinamide - biologic actions of an emerging cosmetic ingredient. - PubMed - NCBI

    1.1 Hyperpigmentation and Skin Aging (niacinamide)
    Topical niacinamide reduces yellowing, wrinkling, red blotchiness, and hyperpigmented spots in aging facial skin. - PubMed - NCBI
    A review of nicotinamide: treatment of skin diseases and potential side effects. - PubMed - NCBI
    Niacinamide - mechanisms of action and its topical use in dermatology. - PubMed - NCBI
    Niacinamide: A B vitamin that improves aging facial skin appearance. - PubMed - NCBI
    The clinical anti-aging effects of topical kinetin and niacinamide in Asians: a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled, split-face comparativ... - PubMed - NCBI
    Topical niacinamide 4% and desonide 0.05% for treatment of axillary hyperpigmentation: a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled study. - PubMed - NCBI
    Reduction in the appearance of facial hyperpigmentation after use of moisturizers with a combination of topical niacinamide and N-acetyl glucosamin... - PubMed - NCBI
    Reduction in facial hyperpigmentation after treatment with a combination of topical niacinamide and tranexamic acid: a randomized, double-blind, ve... - PubMed - NCBI
    A Double-Blind, Randomized Clinical Trial of Niacinamide 4% versus Hydroquinone 4% in the Treatment of Melasma. - PubMed - NCBI
    The effect of 2% niacinamide on facial sebum production. - PubMed - NCBI
    Moisturizing effects of topical nicotinamide on atopic dry skin. - PubMed - NCBI

    1.2 UV Damage (niacinamide)
    Nicotinamide-containing sunscreens for use in Australasian countries and cancer-provoking conditions. - PubMed - NCBI
    Topical nicotinamide modulates cellular energy metabolism and provides broad-spectrum protection against ultraviolet radiation-induced immunosuppre... - PubMed - NCBI
    Ultraviolet A radiation: its role in immunosuppression and carcinogenesis. - PubMed - NCBI
    Nicotinamide enhances repair of ultraviolet radiation-induced DNA damage in primary melanocytes. - PubMed - NCBI
    Nicotinamide reduces photodynamic therapy-induced immunosuppression in humans. - PubMed - NCBI
    Nicotinamide enhances repair of ultraviolet radiation-induced DNA damage in human keratinocytes and ex vivo skin. - PubMed - NCBI
    Nicotinamide downregulates gene expression of interleukin-6, interleukin-10, monocyte chemoattractant protein-1, and tumour necrosis factor-α gene ... - PubMed - NCBI
    Oral and systemic photoprotection. - PubMed - NCBI
    Photoprotective effects of nicotinamide. - PubMed - NCBI
    Nicotinamide prevents ultraviolet radiation-induced cellular energy loss. - PubMed - NCBI
    Oral nicotinamide protects against ultraviolet radiation-induced immunosuppression in humans. - PubMed - NCBI
    UV radiation-induced immunosuppression is greater in men and prevented by topical nicotinamide. - PubMed - NCBI
    [The intervention of nicotinamide on skin melanocyte's cell proliferation after UVA (365 nm) exposed.]. - PubMed - NCBI
    Prevention of photoimmunosuppression and photocarcinogenesis by topical nicotinamide. - PubMed - NCBI
    Effects of nicotinamide on mouse skin tumor development and its mode of action. - PubMed - NCBI
    Nicotinamide and nicotinamide analogues as antitumor promoters in mouse skin. - PubMed - NCBI

    Follicular penetration of topically applied caffeine via a shampoo formulation. - PubMed - NCBI
    The role of hair follicles in the percutaneous absorption of caffeine. - PubMed - NCBI
    Topical delivery of caffeine from some commercial formulations. - PubMed - NCBI

    2.1 Sunscreen effects (caffeine)
    Caffeine and caffeine sodium benzoate have a sunscreen effect, enhance UVB-induced apoptosis, and inhibit UVB-induced skin carcinogenesis in SKH-1 ... - PubMed - NCBI

    2.2 Skin cancer (caffeine)
    Topical applications of caffeine or (−)-epigallocatechin gallate (EGCG) inhibit carcinogenesis and selectively increase apoptosis in UVB-induced skin tumors in mice
    A novel topical targeting system of caffeine microemulsion for inhibiting UVB-induced skin tumor: characterization, optimization, and evaluation. - PubMed - NCBI
    Caffeine decreases phospho-Chk1 (Ser317) and increases mitotic cells with cyclin B1 and caspase 3 in tumors from UVB-treated mice. - PubMed - NCBI
    Caffeine decreases phospho-Chk1 (Ser317) and increases mitotic cells with cyclin B1 and caspase 3 in tumors from UVB treated mice
    Effect of caffeine on UVB-induced carcinogenesis, apoptosis, and the elimination of UVB-induced patches of p53 mutant epidermal cells in SKH-1 mice. - PubMed - NCBI
    Protection from photodamage by topical application of caffeine after ultraviolet irradiation. - PubMed - NCBI
    Inhibitory effects of tea and caffeine on UV-induced carcinogenesis: relationship to enhanced apoptosis and decreased tissue fat. - PubMed - NCBI
    Stimulatory effect of topical application of caffeine on UVB-induced apoptosis in mouse skin. - PubMed - NCBI

    2.3 Other skin conditions (caffeine)
    The effect of topically applied aspirin on localized circumscribed neurodermatitis. - PubMed - NCBI
    Topical treatment of cutaneous herpes simplex virus-1 infection in mice with a specially formulated caffeine gel (Cafon). - PubMed - NCBI
    Effect of caffeine and testosterone on the proliferation of human hair follicles in vitro. - PubMed - NCBI
    Histopathological evaluation of caffeine-loaded solid lipid nanoparticles in efficient treatment of cellulite. - PubMed - NCBI
    Role of Caffeine in the Management of Androgenetic Alopecia
    Pharmacokinetics for topically applied caffeine in the rat. - PubMed - NCBI
    Effectiveness of topical caffeine in cataract prevention: studies with galactose cataract. - PubMed - NCBI
    Evaluation of the efficacy of topical caffeine in the treatment of psoriasis vulgaris. - PubMed - NCBI
    Caffeine inhibits paresthesia induced by herpes simplex virus through action on primary sensory neurons in rats. - PubMed - NCBI

    3. ASPIRIN
    Combined patch containing salicylic acid and nicotinamide: role of drug interaction. - PubMed - NCBI
    Design of a transdermal delivery system for aspirin as an antithrombotic drug. - PubMed - NCBI
    Transdermal modification of platelet function. A dermal aspirin preparation selectively inhibits platelet cyclooxygenase and preserves prostacyclin... - PubMed - NCBI
    Topically applied aspirin decreases histamine-induced wheal and flare reactions in normal and SLS-inflamed skin, but does not decrease itch. A rand... - PubMed - NCBI
    Topically applied aspirin rapidly decreases histamine-induced itch. - PubMed - NCBI
  2. :claporange Excellent!
  3. That's really cool, thanks Haidut. That's particularly interesting about the sunscreen effect.
  4. Thanks Blossom!

    I tried to make it as versatile supplement as possible. Personally, I used it instead of sunscreen and find out I do not burn much with it. When I do burn, the inflammation subsides overnight and the redness disappears. That's probably due to the 3 substances blocking inflammation.

    A friend of mine is using it to control skin aging - specifically wrinkles and aging spots. Apparently, it is especially effective when used with EstroBan - SolBan in the morning due to the caffeine and EstroBan at night. She claims that she has ditched her expensive L'Oreal anti-aging creams, which cost her hundreds every month and cause allergic reactions. Not to mention that she has not seen much results.

    Another friend is using it to manage his acne outbreaks. He has managed to stop taking Tretinoin by using SolBan in combination with oral vitamin A. He is about to add EstoBan to see if it will reduce outbreaks even more. I will report on that in a month when he has some data / pictures to share.

    Yet another friend is using SolBan on a lypoma (benign fatty buildup in skin) since caffeine seems to be able to dissolve such buildups. It's too early to say if it works but in a week the mass has become soft and it felt like a pebble before that. So, maybe it is working but I don't know yet.

    Finally, a friend has reduced her cellulite with SolBan to the point of being able to proudly wear shorts again:): I did not think her cellulite was that bad before, but she claims it did help and at least she does not feel insecure any more.
  5. Yeah, it also seems that the sunscreen effects is amplified when niacinamide is added to the caffeine. The effects is at the very least chemical blocking of skin damage from sunlight - i.e. block damage in the skin AFTER it absorbs UV light.
    However, even more interestingly caffeine and niacinamide may be physical sunscreens as well - i.e. reflect the UV light so it reduces the amount of UV the skin gets exposed to. I don't know of a commercially sold substance that can do both and not have some dire side effects. When I find out more I will post the studies here.
  6. That's great. Just what I've been nagging you about for ages!
  7. Do you have an estimate on how many sunscreen-ish applications (face/neck/arms) a person might get from the 2oz bottle?

    I'm asking on behalf of other people, of course. I have dark, rugged good looks that leave me with no fear of the sun.
  8. Here is some info that caffeine seems to absorb UV light and thus function as a physical sunscreen in addition to being a chemical one.

    "...Since caffeine and caffeine sodium benzoate (a related, more potent inhibitor of UVB-induced skin cancer) have appreciable UV absorption between 260 and 300 nm (with a peak at ∼273 nm), we studied the effect of topical application of these compounds prior to UVB irradiation on UVB-induced thymine dimers and sunburn lesions in the epidermis of SKH-1 mice. Topical application of caffeine or caffeine sodium benzoate 0.5 h prior to UVB irradiation inhibited UVB-induced formation of thymine dimers and inhibited UVB-induced sunburn lesions, and caffeine sodium benzoate was more effective than caffeine (Figure ​(Figure1)1) (Lu et al., 2007)."
  9. It depends on the surface area treated. I use it as a sunscreen on my face and it lasts me a little more than a month. If you use it on smaller area like a single spot or a small cluster/area (i.e. acne, eczema, mole, etc) then it would likely last a while since you'd only need 1-2 sprays per day and the bottle provides several hundred sprays.
    Finally, it would also be good method to administer the thyroid surrogate stack I created a thread about some time ago. Some people do not tolerate well oral administration of the caffeine / niacinamide / aspirin combo and topical administration should resolve those issues.
  10. Sorry for the delay! It took some time to gather all the studies and try several administration methods and solutions to see which one is most effective and produces the least amount of adverse reactions on skin.
    What's was that old American pun about the patience?? I think it went something like "Patience is a virtue, possess it if you can. Seldom found in women, never found in men". :):
  11. This seems like a great combination for skin issues. I want to try this for hairloss. There's been a few studies documenting the success of topical thyroid regrowing hair so I'd like to try dissolving a few mcg of T3 into the bottle and applying it to the scalp. Is this OK to do?
  12. Does aspirin get activated in the skin or does it have an effect as it is?
  13. What about blackheads? I tried to apply aspirin on it and it has a little effect, if caffeine and niacinamide have additive effects it may remove my blackheads?
  14. Dan? :P

  15. Yes, I listed hair loss as a possible situation where SolBan may be helpful. One of the studies listed under the caffeine section talks about topical caffeine for hair loss. The study was in vitro and use concetrations of 0.001% and 0.005% for cell cultures. Interestingly, the 0.001% stimulated hair growth more than the 0.005%. Since this was in vitro study I had to find other studies that show how much topical caffeine you need to approximate the 0.001% concentration used for the in vitro study. The consensus is that a 1% solution would do the job.
    Finally, yes you can add T3 or whatever else you like to the mixture. This page claims T3 is soluble in ethanol but I don't know how well.
    http://www.scbt.com/datasheet-204035-l- ... -acid.html

    Give it a go and let us know! Like Peat said, experimentation is the ultimate knowledge source.
  16. The Wikipedia page on blackheads has some info that vitamin B6 or retinoids (vitamin A) may be beneficial but there is no good data on the vitamin B6 effectiveness. So, you may be better off with Energin and/or EstroBan. However, it probably won't hurt to get some some ground coffee and apply it. If it works then you have an answer and can get SolBan or make your own mix.
  17. I tried aspirin and instant coffee as a shampoo a few times and noticed benefits. I will try that on my nose also. Thanks!
  18. Would this be good for removing freckles and other pigmentation? Or would estroban be a better option?
  19. Yes, both products should be able to remove these, but SolBan should be particularly good. If you look at the studies I posted on niacinamide, there is a section for "Hyperpigmentation" showing very good effects of a 4% niacinamide solution on hyperpigmentation. For freckles, maybe you can try a combination of both - SolBan in the morning due to the caffeine and EstroBan in the evening.
  20. I have spent most of my life in the sun and and now have sun damaged skin. A family member that works for a dermatologist told me I should use fluorouracil on my arms and face to take care of anything that could possibly be precancerous. (From RP- " [Topical fluorouracil for skin cancer] About 6% of the fluorouracil is absorbed systemically.") I don't really want to use the Fluorouracil especially since I don't have anything obvious that requires treatment.
    I also have a large amount of age spots from early menopause and too much sun.

    Do you think SolBan could help with either?
  21. Both of these conditions have been successfully treated by 4% topical niacinamide and topical vitamin A. I posted studies covering both, especially sun damaged skin. So, SolBan and EstroBan combined should work very well, but I would try SolBan first as the caffeine and aspirin additions are supposed to help a lot with sun damaged skin and won't stain or grease your skin. The SolBan liquid is completely transparent and the only way you find out you have been applying a substance is that if some of the ingredients don't get absorbed so you may get a white powdery residue on your skin which is easily rubbed off. Just don't use too much SolBan in the evening. If I use it after 8pm I find it hard to fall asleep. It seems that caffeine is very well absorbed through the skin in this preparation. Finally, here is a report of niacinamide helping sun burn a lot. Not exactly what you have but similar enough.
  22. Thanks, haidut. Are there instructions for frequency? Since it can be used as a sunsreen, would sitting in the sun pose a problem. I have an otc product, Ambi, and some retinol samples that require blocking sun in order for spots to not darken. It is hard to avoid the sun in Florida.

    Is the EstroBan also used topically?

    I will probably need a gallon. :eek:
  23. I am not sure if sitting in the sun would pose a problem, since everybody responds differently to the sun. All I am saying is that there are studies showing topical caffeine working well as both a chemical and physical sunscreen. So, using it before going under the sun should reduce sunburn. Using it after sunburn should speed up healing and reduce skin damage.
    EstroBan is fat-soluble mixture of vitamins and as such can be used topically as well. It is not to be used as sunscreen since you may get vitamin toxicity if you apply a whole bottle needed to cover a large area. EstroBan is better used on a small area of specific damage (spot, mole, etc). SolBan can be sprayed on a larger area including the problematic spot / mole, and after it dries out EstroBan can be applied on the specific spot.
    Makes sense?
    I recommend reviewing the studies I posted, even if it's just reading the abstracts. This should answer a number of potential questions on skin issues that SolBan can be helpful for. The FDA regulations prohibit me from recommending the product for specific conditions that FDA considers a disease, but I can refer you to the studies discussing the effects on substances used in SolBan for those conditions.
  24. Yes, that makes sense. Thank you. I am excited to try this product!
  25. I am going to order for other issues but curious if you think solban would be helpful for sebaceous cysts or excess sebum at all. I have found estroban makes a significant difference with blackheads and sebum in general. Maybe estroban or even just vitamin A directly applied to a sebaceous cyst? Thanks
  26. Here is a study claiming that 2% niacinamide solution was effective for reduction of facial sebum.

    "...The results of the Japanese study demonstrated that the SER of the two groups was not significantly different at baseline, but the 2% niacinamide treated group demonstrated significantly lowered SER after 2 and 4 weeks of application. The results were somewhat different in the Caucasian study. After 6 weeks of treatment, the CSL was significantly reduced, but the SER was not significantly reduced."

    I don't have much knowledge of sebaceous cysts, but caffeine is known to be lipolytic so applying it directly on the cyst should help. In other words, I do expect SolBan to be helpful but I just don't know how much it would help reduce the actual cyst. Since there are no reports in the medical literature of caffeine exacerbating these conditions I think it would be fine to try and keep increasing the number of times per day of application until no more benefit it seen or the person starts getting symptoms of too much caffeine (i.e. anxiety, jitteriness, etc).

  27. cantstoppeating - Are you experimenting with the T3 in solban? I've ordered some and tempted to mix some T3 in it for hair loss.
  28. Not quite yet but I will be.

    Ray has commented about how caffeine and aspirin together mimic T3's metabolism-boosting effects, so it may not be necessary but I'm leaning towards its addition being beneficial, especially given these two studies:

    In humans, the above used a solution containing T4, insulin and some other good stuff.

    And this study done on mice using topical T3:

    "These data suggest that follicles in the telogen phase can be induced to enter the anagen phase by the topical application of T3. This thyroid hormone may reverse graying of the terminal hair. In the in vitro experiments, T3 stimulated hair shaft growth."

    What's interesting about the above study is that it was done after the researchers remarked:

    "Darkening of gray and white hairs occurred in 2 patients with increased exogenous triiodothyronine (T3) due to treatment of myxedema coma in one case and iatrogenic hyperthyroidism in the other. We hypothesized that thyroid hormone may affect the homeostasis of hair follicles."

    So they noticed reversal of white and grey hairs when 2 people were given T3, in each case to correct their deranged metabolism. The study also tells us the dose they used when attempting to replicate the results in mice:

    "T3 (0.5 microg) dissolved in ethanol was applied topically once daily for 10 days to a depilated area in the telogen phase on the backs of the mice"

    I'm probably going to use SolBan on my left temple and SolBan + T3 on my right temple and note the effects. If haidut can let us know how many ml of the solution is dispersed per pump, then we should be able to workout how much T3 to add to get 0.5mcg per dose/day.
  29. Haidut, is there any possibility of SolBan causing peach fuzz to turn to terminal hair where hair loss is not a problem? For example the light fuzz on a woman's face or arms. I imagine not, but better safe than sorry :)
  30. Well, nothing is impossible, right?! However, I don't know of a single study or anecdotal report of the SolBan ingredients causing fuzz to turn into hair. Caffeine stimulates progesterone synthesis, which should prevent facial hair development in women rather than cause it.
  31. Are you monitoring your temples by taking photographs?
  32. Yes.
  33. Haidut,
    I know it's only been a couple more weeks, but any update on your friend who is using the SolBan on her lypoma? Also, what's her protocol? Does she spray the lypoma with a certain number of sprays per day?
  34. I don't know for sure it is a lypoma and neither does she, it just looks like one. The mass/nodule has shrunk and is now of the same height as her normal skin. Daily sprays (2-3) in the morning is all she claimed to have done.
  35. Thanks for the update! Is it a growth on top of the skin? Or is it more of a fatty deposit under the skin?
  36. A fatty deposit under the skin that was raised before treatment and is now apparently flat.
  37. Thanks for your response.
  38. haidut, off the top of your head, do you know of any issues/interference when applying Solban along with other topical creams/gels?

    I'm using Solban over a custom vitamin C + E + Ferulic acid topical solution and I'm assuming I'm still getting the benefits of Solban. Or perhaps I should be using Solban first, waiting for it to dry, then using the custom solution?
  39. Haidut, not sure how transparent you want to be but can you discuss the pricing of your supplements, namely the mark up? I'm just curious because I notice a trend of $20 for 2oz (30 day supply or less for most?) Instead of a price based on ingredients.

  40. I would apply SolBan first, let it dry and then apply any fatty cream/ointment.
  41. The facility we use to bottle the supplements, the labor cost, the prices of bottles, and the organic fillers (olive oil, coconut oil, vitamin E, ethanol) make the bulk of the cost. Since these are largely the same across the various supplements I decided to keep the cost flat for simplicity. StressNon is the only supplement where the actual raw material (pregnenolone) is significantly more expensive as a ratio of the total cost, so the supplement is also more expensive. Also, I did a survey almost a year ago and most people stated that the price of $20 a month is the sweet spot for them.
  42. Thanks for the quick response. $20 a month is not bad but most of the people who order your products are probably interested in using a few if not all of them. That adds up quick.

    In the future maybe think about bigger bottles at a reduced price point!
  43. Yep, definitely keeping that in mind. Eventually, if this scales it can be produced more cheaply. Right now, being a small family venture, you have two biochemistry Ph.D. scientists doing most of the actual supplement production, so the cost adds up:):
    On the other hand, I think there is an inherent benefit of having a person knowledgeable in the matters of the supplements doing the mixing, bottling and purity testing. And the people working on those supplements kind of "care" about this since it's close to their hearts and what they did in school. Outsourcing it eventually will kill all of that, but maybe the lower price would be a good enough justification for most people. I may do another survey if we get to that point and ask directly.
    Thanks for asking though!
  44. Oh I agree, the fact that knowledgeable people are making it and actually posting and responding to questions and comments make a huge difference when it comes to price point. Plus the purity is a huge issue for me When it comes to supplements so that's another plus.

    another question. With your estroban, do you have any idea the % of vitamins that get absorbed through the skin? I see that you post the amount per dose in the bottle but I'm guessing it's not a 100% efficiency rate when applied topically. So trying to figure out a certain dose, any thoughts on how to factor that in?
  45. Ray has apparently said that topical absorption is 1/4 of oral. However, I have not seen this in writing and there are other factors to consider. With topical absorption, even if the plasma concentration is lower, half-life is much much longer. This is shown for caffeine and aspirin and is even more true for fat-soluble vitamins. So, for things like vitamin K2 (MK-4), which have a half-life of 3-4 hours you want to prolong the half-life as much as possible. With topical absorption, vitamin K2 (MK-4) probably stays in your blood for several days. Given that the major selling point for other vitamin K analogs like MK-7 is their long half-life (but largely unproven efficacy), having a long half-life of vitamin K2 (MK-4) at least removes the advertised advantage of other K analogs. Most studies with MK-4 had people take the vitamin 3-4 times daily due to its short half-life. With topical absorption, you probably get the same AVERAGE plasma concentrations by using less than 10% of the oral daily dose, and by using it only once daily.
  46. Thanks! I love Denzel btw, he is a smooth playa.
  47. Thanks for the reply, that's some good news!

    Also Denzel is still a badass, the Equilizer was great!
  48. It is not correct to call this "sunscreen" - it does not block UV like sunscreen. It blocks the effects of UV. This is good because we want the UV-cholestrol reaction from the sun to produce vitamin D (which traditional sunscreen blocks). Simultaneously, we want to decrease the damage that UV radiation has on the skin (which is why most people use traditional sunscreen). These substances are not "screens" as the substances in traditional sunscreen are, though. Correct labeling will increase understanding.
  49. I am sorry but I believe you are incorrect - SolBan is in fact a sunscreen. There are two types of "sunscreens", and I explained this in some of my other posts - a physical sunscreen and chemical sunscreen.

    http://www.wsj.com/articles/chemical-vs ... 1402354797

    Maybe this is a misnomer and only physical sunscreens should be called sunscreens, but for better or worse the convention is to call both types sunscreens. Physical sunscreen like zinc oxide will prevent the actual UV light from reaching the skin by reflecting it away. Chemical sunscreens prevent the damage caused by sunlight by absorbing the light or redirecting its energy in a way that prevents an increase in local inflammation and immunosuppression. SolBan does the second one, and one of the studies I posted at the beginning of this thread itself calls caffeine a sunscreen precisely b/c it absorbed the light like chemical sunscreen and also prevented most of the skin damage.
  50. Ray Peat on lipofuscin (email):

    Yes, the body can clear lipofuscin gradually when it stops reforming, and vitamin E helps.
    Some skin pigmentation is neither melanin nor lipofuscin. Ordinary alcohol, such as vodka, can have an effect similar to vitamin E, if it's lipofuscin. Niacinamide is effective if it's melanin. Caffeine and aspirin help with other types of skin discoloration.
  51. Haidut, why do you recommend spraying Solban on the skin without rubbing it in? Is it ok to spread it around with your hands just enough to get an even distribution? Thanks!
  52. Well, some people are probably going to use it on a mole and I would not recommend rubbing the mole since it may irritate it and even break the skin. But if the skin is clear then you can rub it if you want. Not sure if this will improve absorption in any way though...
  53. So you're saying caffeine is the UV filter in SolBan? How is it blocking the UV? Especially @ 4% of the substance?
  54. Thanks Such, this study is very interesting. It certainly begs a few questions:

    1. Is the "Vitamin E deficiency" really estrogen excess?
    2. Are they implying a "cure" for celieacs disease?
    3. Is supplementation through oral or rectal means nearly useless?
    "Bolus supplementiation of 2g vit e (per day) were ineffective at raising serum levels. Parenteral vitamin E administration (900 mg/day) was able to normalize the plasma values only after 6 months of chronic administration"
  55. Some more info:
    http://www.theguardian.com/science/2011 ... kin-cancer
  56. I think that guy had a hard time digesting anything at all!
  57. Again, I realize that, but it isn't via the mechanism of "blocking" the UV. Any evidence that it blocks or absorbs UV? Then it isn't a screen - it is a "tanning oil" or something. Again, I'm not saying it isn't better than sunscreen - just that it shouldn't be called sunscreen.
  58. But what if it produces carbon dioxide which is protecting the protein, I mean where do we draw the line?
  59. How about this study:

    "...Topical application of caffeine sodium benzoate (caffeine-SB) immediately after UVB irradiation of SKH-1 mice enhanced UVB-induced apoptosis by a 2- to 3-fold greater extent than occurred after the topical application of an equimolar amount of caffeine. Although topical application of caffeine-SB or caffeine enhanced UVB-induced apoptosis, both substances were inactive on non-UVB-treated normal skin. Topical application of caffeine-SB or caffeine (each has UVB absorption properties) 0.5 h before irradiation with a high dose of UVB decreased UVB-induced thymine dimer formation and sunburn lesions (sunscreen effect). Caffeine-SB was more active than an equimolar amount of caffeine in exerting a sunscreen effect."

    If something reduces the occurrence of sunburn lesions, then it is a sunscreen in my opinion. Since the study also calls it a "sunscreen" effect so am I. I guess like said Such_Saturation, at some point it may come down to where draw the line. Caffeine is known to increase CO2 in skin, so this may be an additional chemical sunscreen effect.
  60. Also, from the same study:

    "...Since our UV lamps emit light predominately between 280 and 320 nm (see Materials and methods section) and caffeine and caffeine-SB have appreciable UVB absorption between 260 and 300 nm (with a peak at ∼273 nm), we studied the time course for the effects of pretreatment with caffeine or caffeine-SB on UVB-induced thymine dimer formation in the epidermis."

    So, caffeine does in fact absorb UV light. In addition, from the same study you can see that caffeine reduced the occurrence and size/area of sunburn lesions, which is consistent with it being an actual sunscreen. I don't think the study would have called it a "sunscreen effect" otherwise.
    Does that answer your question?
  61. I think the line should be drawn in the place of the paradigm each person is trying to promote. If we think that the primary beneficial mechanism of topical caffeine is a property to block a certain wavelength of energy, then we should call it a sunscreen. However, if we think that the primary beneficial mechanism of topical caffeine is via its effects to enhance the cellular state, then we should call it "protective" or a nutrient.
  62. I agree. The only reason I called caffeine a sunscreen was due to the study calling it that as well.
  63. All good. I just wanted to add value to the discussion :)
  64. Is there a reason for the bottle change? My order with the plastic bottles leaked during mailing process. The blue glass delivered without any problem.
  65. I will attempt to make this myself, as ordering pharmaceuticals is bit risky for me.

    Just to confirm, the recipe is in volumes, can I convert everything to weights without problem. For example, I need to dissolve aspirin from tablets, would 1ml aspirin equate to 1.40 g (density from wikipedia)? And I will have a odd amount of alcohol (37.5%) to work with, so probably working with weights is easier.
  66. Yes, if you can dissolve 1.4g of aspirin into 1ml of water, but that's unlikely. Each ingredient has different solubility and the calculation of the exact weight of each ingredient that goes in SolBan is beyond the scope of the thread. Also, we do some tricks to increase aspirin solubility such as combining it with a base. My suggestion is to dissolve each ingredient separately and then mix the liquids into one.
  67. That's good info, thanks.
  68. Ok, thanks. I just meant that when I would need 1ml aspirin (1% of 100ml completed solution) I could just measure 1.4g, without going too far wrong (and similarly for other ingredients). But yeah, I suppose the volumes wouldn't be simply additive (I vaguely remember some experiment from school :).

    Maybe good "homebrew" process would be to weight the active ingeredient and (while dissolving) top container with ready made solvent to, say, 100ml mark. And do this separately, like you say. Would this result in somewhat comparable product, not too diluted or strong?
  69. I think your best bet would be to dig through your chemistry notes otherwise get some water, dump some niacinamide, crush some caffeine and aspirin pills and voila! Your very own budget "homebrew" Solban.
  70. And a suggestion for haidut:

    Like someone else mentioned, for some of us that use all your supps on a monthly basis, perhaps you could think about the idea of having a 'mega pack' that includes all your monthly supps (stressnon, energin, estroban, solban) for one good price.
  71. So I bought some of this and have been using it for a week. It makes my skin nice - a touch on the dry side within a couple of hours after application, but there is a softness and slight tightening of the skin thereafter. Would the former be explained by the aspirin's anti-inflammatory effect, and the latter by the caffeine content? I'd also noticed in the past that niacinimide made my skin soft when applied topically, but that was a very rough and overall unsuccessful topical approach due to the powder remaining partially dissolved. SolBan seems much better.

    I wanted to ask: would it be possibly to dump some T3 into this, to turn it into a hair growth boosting topical? I've struggled to find info on topical T3, such as vehicles, dosages etc, so some guidance would be appreciated.

    As a side note: I was out at a bar last night and got ID'd for the first time ever. I'm 23 years old and have looked older than my age since hitting puberty. This is despite having full beard, so... I think this product may well be legitimate. :)
  72. You can try to dissolve the same concentrations as SolBan but I suspect they will not dissolve completely, even though it may be effective (but less than SolBan). Like I said, to fully dissolve all 3 ingredients (and magnesium) we have to do some trick to increase solubility. If you choose to dissolve less than 3 ingredients then you may be able to dissolve more than what is available in SolBan.
  73. Thanks for the nice words! I am really glad you are seeing some results. Btw, if you have spots or moles you can try both SolBan and EstroBan directly on them, as the two supplements should have additive effects.
  74. Would SolBan work well with Retin-A? I've personally used it for over a year and don't plan on stopping usage any time soon. But, I tried applying both at once one night, and in combination it made a smeary, creamy mess. Do you recommend staggering the usage of other topicals to be a few hours apart?

    Also would just vitamin E (ie. no progesterone/pregnenelone added in) have benefits as a skin topical? It would not necessarily be in the form of Estroban, as I don't have the budget for that and already own all its content vitamins in isolation anyway.
  75. I used SolBan daily, sometimes 2x a day for a few weeks or maybe a little long on what I believe was a squamous or basal cell carcinoma. I also used some estroban but only for a few days. I am happy to report that the spot is almost completely healed. There is still a small hard nodule that I might try to treat again but it no longer has the characteristics of a skin cancer. Prior to using SolBan, I tried Progest-e for several days and did not notice any improvement. Progest-e had worked on another spot that had popped up that I assumed was a skin cancer.

    Thanks for the great product, haidut! :carrot2
  76. SolBan should have synergy with any of the fat-soluble vitamins, so if you want to use in conjunction with vitamin A then I don't see any issues but ask your doctor just in case. SolBan should also work well with Energin as there are studies showing reduction in lipofuscin and other skin conditions from topical vitamin B6 and biotin.
  77. Excellent! I am so glad it is working for you. Now, the other big test would be if SolBan would reduce/prevent sunburn. So, if you are interesting in testing that I am sure many people on the forum will appreciate it since I have been getting a lot of questions about that.
  78. I was going to post about using it for sunscreen but thought maybe I should wait until I tried it again for sunscreen. So this us my first time using it for sunscreen. I sprayed arms, chest, face, and a little on my back before going to the beach for a few hours this past week. I also used some coconut oil but I don't recall how thorough or exactly where I rubbed the oil. I also took an aspirin. It was late afternoon mid 80's. I did not burn. My back was a little red but it was the least covered by SolBan along with my forehead (bangs). I am blond, I tan, but also burn. Everything turned to tan, no discomfort or peeling. So, next I will need to test in the morning and midday sun.

    Haidut, would I need to reapply after a certain amount of time or after swimming? I usually don't stay in the sun too long anymore because I burn and don't like using zinc oxide. This will be great if it enables me to be out longer.
  79. I think if you give it 30min-45min to absorb then it stays in the epidermal layer of the skin for up to a day. So, you should be OK with only one application per day. I guess the test would be if you feel a little rush after applying it. Most people do, and that's a sign that at least caffeine is already absorbed. But like I said above, studies show that 30min-45min is enough for the substances to get into the epidermis and not be easily washable.
    I hope that helps.
  80. Could solban heal scars?
  81. I don't have direct studies that show it could, but I don't think it would hurt either. For scars, there are studies showing vitamin E and vitamin A are helpful so I guess EstroBan would be a better option, or you could mix vitamin E and A yourself and apply.
  82. Cool, im gonna try it. It work with stitching also?
  83. It should help with any scar really, even from stitches. Also, if there is a recent wound Ray said that covering it completely so that CO2 can build up should reduce/remove the scar after healing.
  84. Could naringenin be added to increase its sunscreen effect - and produce a tanning effect?

    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... .3302/full
    Citrus flavanone naringenin enhances melanogenesis through the activation of Wnt/β-catenin signalling in mouse melanoma cells
    Yu-Chun HuangChao-Hsun YangYi-Ling Chiou

    The sun-tanning process occurs as a spontaneous response to ultraviolet (UV) irradiation. UV will induce tanning and DNA damage, processes that can lead to photoaging and skin disorders such as hyperpigmentation and cancer. The pigment melanin protects skin from UV damage; therefore, an efficient melanin-promoting suntan lotion could be highly beneficial. In this study, a process was developed to increase the content of naringenin in citrus extracts and to determine whether a higher Hydrolysates of citrus plants stimulate melanogenesis protecting against UV-induced dermal damagenaringenin content of citrus would induce melanogenesis. Melanin content and tyrosinase expression in mouse B16 melanoma cells were assayed after treatment with citrus plant extracts and their hydrolysates. The results indicate that hydrolysis increased the naringenin content in citrus extracts and that citrus preparations stimulated cellular melanogenesis and tyrosinase expression. It is suggested that this method is applicable to the industrial production of melanin-promoting suntan lotions with antiphotocarcinogenic properties derived from citrus rind and citrus products. Copyright © 2010 John Wiley & Sons, Ltd.
  85. I am working on a separate supplement with naringenin and some other things shown to work on "difficult" moles, if you understand what I mean.
  86. :thumbleft
  87. I'm guessing it will have a nice orange sent too! :clap
  88. Pure naringenin is actually green-brownish in color and has a very vague citrus scent. But yes, it should smell like citrus.
  89. will this help bald people or not at all ?
  90. does


    mimic t3 to some level ?
  91. so basically rubbing poor man's t3 on the head ?

    I will accept that.
  92. Yeah, aspirin and caffeine. Another thing Ray mentioned was the story of a man who burned his scalp and hair grew back over the burned area. Interestingly, I just heard about a new therapy where they pull small clumps of hair around the bald spots to stimulate new hair growth. If I'm not mistaken, it's a surge of parathyroid hormone that initiates a regenerative process.
    Another thing to consider would be infra red light therapy.
  93. is liquid salycylic acid

    similar to aspirin ?

    it is used in a lot of shampoos
  94. I know its similar, but I don't know how similar. That would be a good question for Haidut or another chemist.
  95. The salicylic acid we use is magnesium salicylate and it's sold over the counter for back pain. Peat has said that all the salicylates have similar effect on metabolism and health and he said the magnesium salt would be a good supplement to take, but he does not take it personally since all magnesium supplements upset his stomach.
  96. Thank you for the clarification.