SolBan - Liquid Aspirin/Caffeine/Niacinamide Mix

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haidut

haidut

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oxidation_is_normal said:
haidut said:
oxidation_is_normal said:
haidut said:
oxidation_is_normal said:
It is not correct to call this "sunscreen" - it does not block UV like sunscreen. It blocks the effects of UV. This is good because we want the UV-cholestrol reaction from the sun to produce vitamin D (which traditional sunscreen blocks). Simultaneously, we want to decrease the damage that UV radiation has on the skin (which is why most people use traditional sunscreen). These substances are not "screens" as the substances in traditional sunscreen are, though. Correct labeling will increase understanding.

I am sorry but I believe you are incorrect - SolBan is in fact a sunscreen. There are two types of "sunscreens", and I explained this in some of my other posts - a physical sunscreen and chemical sunscreen.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/chemical-vs ... 1402354797

Maybe this is a misnomer and only physical sunscreens should be called sunscreens, but for better or worse the convention is to call both types sunscreens. Physical sunscreen like zinc oxide will prevent the actual UV light from reaching the skin by reflecting it away. Chemical sunscreens prevent the damage caused by sunlight by absorbing the light or redirecting its energy in a way that prevents an increase in local inflammation and immunosuppression. SolBan does the second one, and one of the studies I posted at the beginning of this thread itself calls caffeine a sunscreen precisely b/c it absorbed the light like chemical sunscreen and also prevented most of the skin damage.
Thoughts?

So you're saying caffeine is the UV filter in SolBan? How is it blocking the UV? Especially @ 4% of the substance?

Some more info:
http://www.theguardian.com/science/2011 ... kin-cancer
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=3692

Again, I realize that, but it isn't via the mechanism of "blocking" the UV. Any evidence that it blocks or absorbs UV? Then it isn't a screen - it is a "tanning oil" or something. Again, I'm not saying it isn't better than sunscreen - just that it shouldn't be called sunscreen.

How about this study:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16864596

"...Topical application of caffeine sodium benzoate (caffeine-SB) immediately after UVB irradiation of SKH-1 mice enhanced UVB-induced apoptosis by a 2- to 3-fold greater extent than occurred after the topical application of an equimolar amount of caffeine. Although topical application of caffeine-SB or caffeine enhanced UVB-induced apoptosis, both substances were inactive on non-UVB-treated normal skin. Topical application of caffeine-SB or caffeine (each has UVB absorption properties) 0.5 h before irradiation with a high dose of UVB decreased UVB-induced thymine dimer formation and sunburn lesions (sunscreen effect). Caffeine-SB was more active than an equimolar amount of caffeine in exerting a sunscreen effect."

If something reduces the occurrence of sunburn lesions, then it is a sunscreen in my opinion. Since the study also calls it a "sunscreen" effect so am I. I guess like said Such_Saturation, at some point it may come down to where draw the line. Caffeine is known to increase CO2 in skin, so this may be an additional chemical sunscreen effect.
 
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haidut

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oxidation_is_normal said:
haidut said:
oxidation_is_normal said:
haidut said:
oxidation_is_normal said:
It is not correct to call this "sunscreen" - it does not block UV like sunscreen. It blocks the effects of UV. This is good because we want the UV-cholestrol reaction from the sun to produce vitamin D (which traditional sunscreen blocks). Simultaneously, we want to decrease the damage that UV radiation has on the skin (which is why most people use traditional sunscreen). These substances are not "screens" as the substances in traditional sunscreen are, though. Correct labeling will increase understanding.

I am sorry but I believe you are incorrect - SolBan is in fact a sunscreen. There are two types of "sunscreens", and I explained this in some of my other posts - a physical sunscreen and chemical sunscreen.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/chemical-vs ... 1402354797

Maybe this is a misnomer and only physical sunscreens should be called sunscreens, but for better or worse the convention is to call both types sunscreens. Physical sunscreen like zinc oxide will prevent the actual UV light from reaching the skin by reflecting it away. Chemical sunscreens prevent the damage caused by sunlight by absorbing the light or redirecting its energy in a way that prevents an increase in local inflammation and immunosuppression. SolBan does the second one, and one of the studies I posted at the beginning of this thread itself calls caffeine a sunscreen precisely b/c it absorbed the light like chemical sunscreen and also prevented most of the skin damage.
Thoughts?

So you're saying caffeine is the UV filter in SolBan? How is it blocking the UV? Especially @ 4% of the substance?

Some more info:
http://www.theguardian.com/science/2011 ... kin-cancer
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=3692

Again, I realize that, but it isn't via the mechanism of "blocking" the UV. Any evidence that it blocks or absorbs UV? Then it isn't a screen - it is a "tanning oil" or something. Again, I'm not saying it isn't better than sunscreen - just that it shouldn't be called sunscreen.

Also, from the same study:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16864596

"...Since our UV lamps emit light predominately between 280 and 320 nm (see Materials and methods section) and caffeine and caffeine-SB have appreciable UVB absorption between 260 and 300 nm (with a peak at ∼273 nm), we studied the time course for the effects of pretreatment with caffeine or caffeine-SB on UVB-induced thymine dimer formation in the epidermis."

So, caffeine does in fact absorb UV light. In addition, from the same study you can see that caffeine reduced the occurrence and size/area of sunburn lesions, which is consistent with it being an actual sunscreen. I don't think the study would have called it a "sunscreen effect" otherwise.
Does that answer your question?
 
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I think the line should be drawn in the place of the paradigm each person is trying to promote. If we think that the primary beneficial mechanism of topical caffeine is a property to block a certain wavelength of energy, then we should call it a sunscreen. However, if we think that the primary beneficial mechanism of topical caffeine is via its effects to enhance the cellular state, then we should call it "protective" or a nutrient.
 
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haidut

haidut

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oxidation_is_normal said:
I think the line should be drawn in the place of the paradigm each person is trying to promote. If we think that the primary beneficial mechanism of topical caffeine is a property to block a certain wavelength of energy, then we should call it a sunscreen. However, if we think that the primary beneficial mechanism of topical caffeine is via its effects to enhance the cellular state, then we should call it "protective" or a nutrient.

I agree. The only reason I called caffeine a sunscreen was due to the study calling it that as well.
 

DKBS

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Is there a reason for the bottle change? My order with the plastic bottles leaked during mailing process. The blue glass delivered without any problem.
 

onioneyedox

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I will attempt to make this myself, as ordering pharmaceuticals is bit risky for me.

Just to confirm, the recipe is in volumes, can I convert everything to weights without problem. For example, I need to dissolve aspirin from tablets, would 1ml aspirin equate to 1.40 g (density from wikipedia)? And I will have a odd amount of alcohol (37.5%) to work with, so probably working with weights is easier.
 
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onioneyedox said:
I will attempt to make this myself, as ordering pharmaceuticals is bit risky for me.

Just to confirm, the recipe is in volumes, can I convert everything to weights without problem. For example, I need to dissolve aspirin from tablets, would 1ml aspirin equate to 1.40 g (density from wikipedia)? And I will have a odd amount of alcohol (37.5%) to work with, so probably working with weights is easier.

Yes, if you can dissolve 1.4g of aspirin into 1ml of water, but that's unlikely. Each ingredient has different solubility and the calculation of the exact weight of each ingredient that goes in SolBan is beyond the scope of the thread. Also, we do some tricks to increase aspirin solubility such as combining it with a base. My suggestion is to dissolve each ingredient separately and then mix the liquids into one.
 

Peata

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Philomath said:
Ray Peat on lipofuscin (email):

Yes, the body can clear lipofuscin gradually when it stops reforming, and vitamin E helps.
Some skin pigmentation is neither melanin nor lipofuscin. Ordinary alcohol, such as vodka, can have an effect similar to vitamin E, if it's lipofuscin. Niacinamide is effective if it's melanin. Caffeine and aspirin help with other types of skin discoloration.

That's good info, thanks.
 

onioneyedox

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haidut said:
onioneyedox said:
I will attempt to make this myself, as ordering pharmaceuticals is bit risky for me.

Just to confirm, the recipe is in volumes, can I convert everything to weights without problem. For example, I need to dissolve aspirin from tablets, would 1ml aspirin equate to 1.40 g (density from wikipedia)? And I will have a odd amount of alcohol (37.5%) to work with, so probably working with weights is easier.

Yes, if you can dissolve 1.4g of aspirin into 1ml of water, but that's unlikely. Each ingredient has different solubility and the calculation of the exact weight of each ingredient that goes in SolBan is beyond the scope of the thread. Also, we do some tricks to increase aspirin solubility such as combining it with a base. My suggestion is to dissolve each ingredient separately and then mix the liquids into one.

Ok, thanks. I just meant that when I would need 1ml aspirin (1% of 100ml completed solution) I could just measure 1.4g, without going too far wrong (and similarly for other ingredients). But yeah, I suppose the volumes wouldn't be simply additive (I vaguely remember some experiment from school :).

Maybe good "homebrew" process would be to weight the active ingeredient and (while dissolving) top container with ready made solvent to, say, 100ml mark. And do this separately, like you say. Would this result in somewhat comparable product, not too diluted or strong?
 
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onioneyedox said:
haidut said:
onioneyedox said:
I will attempt to make this myself, as ordering pharmaceuticals is bit risky for me.

Just to confirm, the recipe is in volumes, can I convert everything to weights without problem. For example, I need to dissolve aspirin from tablets, would 1ml aspirin equate to 1.40 g (density from wikipedia)? And I will have a odd amount of alcohol (37.5%) to work with, so probably working with weights is easier.

Yes, if you can dissolve 1.4g of aspirin into 1ml of water, but that's unlikely. Each ingredient has different solubility and the calculation of the exact weight of each ingredient that goes in SolBan is beyond the scope of the thread. Also, we do some tricks to increase aspirin solubility such as combining it with a base. My suggestion is to dissolve each ingredient separately and then mix the liquids into one.

Ok, thanks. I just meant that when I would need 1ml aspirin (1% of 100ml completed solution) I could just measure 1.4g, without going too far wrong (and similarly for other ingredients). But yeah, I suppose the volumes wouldn't be simply additive (I vaguely remember some experiment from school :).

Maybe good "homebrew" process would be to weight the active ingeredient and (while dissolving) top container with ready made solvent to, say, 100ml mark. And do this separately, like you say. Would this result in somewhat comparable product, not too diluted or strong?

I think your best bet would be to dig through your chemistry notes otherwise get some water, dump some niacinamide, crush some caffeine and aspirin pills and voila! Your very own budget "homebrew" Solban.
 
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And a suggestion for haidut:

Like someone else mentioned, for some of us that use all your supps on a monthly basis, perhaps you could think about the idea of having a 'mega pack' that includes all your monthly supps (stressnon, energin, estroban, solban) for one good price.
 

Slippy

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So I bought some of this and have been using it for a week. It makes my skin nice - a touch on the dry side within a couple of hours after application, but there is a softness and slight tightening of the skin thereafter. Would the former be explained by the aspirin's anti-inflammatory effect, and the latter by the caffeine content? I'd also noticed in the past that niacinimide made my skin soft when applied topically, but that was a very rough and overall unsuccessful topical approach due to the powder remaining partially dissolved. SolBan seems much better.

I wanted to ask: would it be possibly to dump some T3 into this, to turn it into a hair growth boosting topical? I've struggled to find info on topical T3, such as vehicles, dosages etc, so some guidance would be appreciated.

As a side note: I was out at a bar last night and got ID'd for the first time ever. I'm 23 years old and have looked older than my age since hitting puberty. This is despite having full beard, so... I think this product may well be legitimate. :)
 
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onioneyedox said:
haidut said:
onioneyedox said:
I will attempt to make this myself, as ordering pharmaceuticals is bit risky for me.

Just to confirm, the recipe is in volumes, can I convert everything to weights without problem. For example, I need to dissolve aspirin from tablets, would 1ml aspirin equate to 1.40 g (density from wikipedia)? And I will have a odd amount of alcohol (37.5%) to work with, so probably working with weights is easier.

Yes, if you can dissolve 1.4g of aspirin into 1ml of water, but that's unlikely. Each ingredient has different solubility and the calculation of the exact weight of each ingredient that goes in SolBan is beyond the scope of the thread. Also, we do some tricks to increase aspirin solubility such as combining it with a base. My suggestion is to dissolve each ingredient separately and then mix the liquids into one.

Ok, thanks. I just meant that when I would need 1ml aspirin (1% of 100ml completed solution) I could just measure 1.4g, without going too far wrong (and similarly for other ingredients). But yeah, I suppose the volumes wouldn't be simply additive (I vaguely remember some experiment from school :).

Maybe good "homebrew" process would be to weight the active ingeredient and (while dissolving) top container with ready made solvent to, say, 100ml mark. And do this separately, like you say. Would this result in somewhat comparable product, not too diluted or strong?

You can try to dissolve the same concentrations as SolBan but I suspect they will not dissolve completely, even though it may be effective (but less than SolBan). Like I said, to fully dissolve all 3 ingredients (and magnesium) we have to do some trick to increase solubility. If you choose to dissolve less than 3 ingredients then you may be able to dissolve more than what is available in SolBan.
 
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Slippy said:
So I bought some of this and have been using it for a week. It makes my skin nice - a touch on the dry side within a couple of hours after application, but there is a softness and slight tightening of the skin thereafter. Would the former be explained by the aspirin's anti-inflammatory effect, and the latter by the caffeine content? I'd also noticed in the past that niacinimide made my skin soft when applied topically, but that was a very rough and overall unsuccessful topical approach due to the powder remaining partially dissolved. SolBan seems much better.

I wanted to ask: would it be possibly to dump some T3 into this, to turn it into a hair growth boosting topical? I've struggled to find info on topical T3, such as vehicles, dosages etc, so some guidance would be appreciated.

As a side note: I was out at a bar last night and got ID'd for the first time ever. I'm 23 years old and have looked older than my age since hitting puberty. This is despite having full beard, so... I think this product may well be legitimate. :)

Thanks for the nice words! I am really glad you are seeing some results. Btw, if you have spots or moles you can try both SolBan and EstroBan directly on them, as the two supplements should have additive effects.
 

Slippy

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Would SolBan work well with Retin-A? I've personally used it for over a year and don't plan on stopping usage any time soon. But, I tried applying both at once one night, and in combination it made a smeary, creamy mess. Do you recommend staggering the usage of other topicals to be a few hours apart?

Also would just vitamin E (ie. no progesterone/pregnenelone added in) have benefits as a skin topical? It would not necessarily be in the form of Estroban, as I don't have the budget for that and already own all its content vitamins in isolation anyway.
 

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I used SolBan daily, sometimes 2x a day for a few weeks or maybe a little long on what I believe was a squamous or basal cell carcinoma. I also used some estroban but only for a few days. I am happy to report that the spot is almost completely healed. There is still a small hard nodule that I might try to treat again but it no longer has the characteristics of a skin cancer. Prior to using SolBan, I tried Progest-e for several days and did not notice any improvement. Progest-e had worked on another spot that had popped up that I assumed was a skin cancer.

Thanks for the great product, haidut! :carrot2
 
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Slippy said:
Would SolBan work well with Retin-A? I've personally used it for over a year and don't plan on stopping usage any time soon. But, I tried applying both at once one night, and in combination it made a smeary, creamy mess. Do you recommend staggering the usage of other topicals to be a few hours apart?

Also would just vitamin E (ie. no progesterone/pregnenelone added in) have benefits as a skin topical? It would not necessarily be in the form of Estroban, as I don't have the budget for that and already own all its content vitamins in isolation anyway.

SolBan should have synergy with any of the fat-soluble vitamins, so if you want to use in conjunction with vitamin A then I don't see any issues but ask your doctor just in case. SolBan should also work well with Energin as there are studies showing reduction in lipofuscin and other skin conditions from topical vitamin B6 and biotin.
 
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HDD said:
I used SolBan daily, sometimes 2x a day for a few weeks or maybe a little long on what I believe was a squamous or basal cell carcinoma. I also used some estroban but only for a few days. I am happy to report that the spot is almost completely healed. There is still a small hard nodule that I might try to treat again but it no longer has the characteristics of a skin cancer. Prior to using SolBan, I tried Progest-e for several days and did not notice any improvement. Progest-e had worked on another spot that had popped up that I assumed was a skin cancer.

Thanks for the great product, haidut! :carrot2

Excellent! I am so glad it is working for you. Now, the other big test would be if SolBan would reduce/prevent sunburn. So, if you are interesting in testing that I am sure many people on the forum will appreciate it since I have been getting a lot of questions about that.
 

HDD

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I was going to post about using it for sunscreen but thought maybe I should wait until I tried it again for sunscreen. So this us my first time using it for sunscreen. I sprayed arms, chest, face, and a little on my back before going to the beach for a few hours this past week. I also used some coconut oil but I don't recall how thorough or exactly where I rubbed the oil. I also took an aspirin. It was late afternoon mid 80's. I did not burn. My back was a little red but it was the least covered by SolBan along with my forehead (bangs). I am blond, I tan, but also burn. Everything turned to tan, no discomfort or peeling. So, next I will need to test in the morning and midday sun.

Haidut, would I need to reapply after a certain amount of time or after swimming? I usually don't stay in the sun too long anymore because I burn and don't like using zinc oxide. This will be great if it enables me to be out longer.
 

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