"Soft Mucles" Even Though I Work Out

Discussion in 'Exercise' started by Mr.Tayto, Oct 20, 2018.

  1. OP
    Mr.Tayto

    Mr.Tayto Member

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    @Arrade
    A well rounded diet hasnt been doing it for me hence im thinking im missing some link in the chain...
    i drink m enough water i know that for sure. ive heard drinking excess water can be excitatory for the cells which is bad and can cause excess estrogen Water: swelling, tension, pain, fatigue, aging
    i actually think that could have a contributing factor to my fatigue drinking excess water, training too hard and sweating way to much and not replacing enough salt.
    Panesterone is idealabs mix of Dhea/pregnenolone 5mg

    @baccheion the tests above are before i started back on progesterone 3 weeks ago after being off it for a year. And ive had more than gradual softening mucles the last few years whether ive been on and or off progesterone.

    Would glucose have that much of a role in soft or hard mucles? i know after i eat a big carb meal i get more pump but not neccessarily hard muscles?
     
  2. baccheion

    baccheion Member

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    That much progesterone would worsen muscle tone by further countering estrogen. Lower amounts of progesterone (<= 6 mg) tend to increase androgens in males, while higher amounts tend to be inhibitory.

    Estrogen increases acetylcholine release (/depletion), though I suppose testosterone does as well. Acetylcholine is associated with muscle tone.
     
  3. OP
    Mr.Tayto

    Mr.Tayto Member

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    @baccheion ok il lay off the progestrone for now amd see how i go. might look into getting a lower does product.
     
  4. baccheion

    baccheion Member

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    Pansterone (5 mg pregnenolone + 5 mg DHEA) should fill any progesterone gaps anyway.
     
  5. superhuman

    superhuman Member

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    Your too fat
     
  6. OP
    Mr.Tayto

    Mr.Tayto Member

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    @superhuman this softness started waaay before i got supposedly fat back when i sat at 85kgs. "Fat" is not the cause.
     
  7. superhuman

    superhuman Member

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    It is. Combined with little muscles
     
  8. aquaman

    aquaman Member

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    His oestradiol was measure in pmol/L !!!

    76 pmol converts to 20.6 pg/mL :)

    So he’s below the life extension target range!
     
  9. Arrade

    Arrade Member

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    My bad
    Also that’s not below that’s in range and ideal
     
  10. OP
    Mr.Tayto

    Mr.Tayto Member

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    @superhuman hahaha i dont have a ego man so yeah there smaller than what i would like, hence the reason im here.
     
  11. OP
    Mr.Tayto

    Mr.Tayto Member

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    @aquaman @Arrade thanks guys! glad we got to the bottom of the estrogen conundrum!
     
  12. OP
    Mr.Tayto

    Mr.Tayto Member

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    Does anyone have any theories or proof of ssris effecting muscle tone?
     
  13. Arrade

    Arrade Member

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    Did we agree it was the progesterone?
    You should get ur DHT checked
     
  14. Luckytype

    Luckytype Member

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    Intersting mention about "this vacuum" considering if you search enough of my posts thats a theme I push strongly.

    Yes I can read his results, his estradiol is higher than ideal.

    Whether you care to admit it or not, or dig further to understand intermingled relationships of the body systems the reality is that hormones do have distinct(I believe is the word you should use here) actions but to say "cut and dry" is a term relative to the environment around it.

    If these actions were so incredibly cut and dry, the scalp progesterone thread here would have larger successes, hair loss a major symptom here on the forum would have already been rectified by all the shotgun approaches because "x does y". The guys still suffering from hairloss would be as simple as cramming tons of nutrient dense calories, thyroid for accelerator, AI to control E, prog for pro thyroid and protection, aspirin for reduction in PG and other food based inflammation - boom, fixed. Orrrmaybe since the new discussion is moving toward less prog and more E, guys should be topically applying E and then shut down all DHT and floor their cortisol since...wait...(sarcasm).

    Unfortunately it doesnt work like that as you probably know.

    Respectfully, I can appreciate your efforts of sharing information you read but assimilation is different than analysis and considerably different than a full long term comprehensive understanding of homeostasis. Obviously pharm intervention is useful and helpful when application is correct but without knowing the entire picture recommending something may be mildly irresponsible and probably a bit premature. For example not being able to envision how progesterone affects things that effects an increase in estrogen in a stressed is probably good cause not to recommend blindly. But hey, anything in theory could work.

    You havent considered this guys energy state. Look at the guys LH/FSH. Look at the accumulation of Estrogen and how it relates to clearance.

    Not saying its even specifically related but you havent considered neural input and resting tone. There are metabolic states of dysfunction that have inputs on the nervous system - again, not pointing to but informing you of the big picture that you may not be aware of..

    @Mr.Tayto - how many calories do you get in a day and what is the macro breakdown of it? Are you using cronometer by chance?

    Whats your waking temp and your daily average temp?
     
  15. aquaman

    aquaman Member

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    NP.

    One thing that has worked for me for hardening muscles, is resistance band exercises (not only, in combo with normal weights). Because you can't use momentum, they massively increases the brain-muscle connection for me. Doing a slower rep cadence comes automatically - I like to go 4 seconds up, 4 down (or often, just do the concentric part, but that's another story), with a 1 second hold at the top and bottom of the rep.

    Lifters rarely talk about Time Under Tension, but talk in reps. But if 1 rep is 1 second, 8 reps is 8 seconds of time under tension, and certain portions of the movement the muscle is hardly being utilised. Slowing down to a 4-1-4-1 second cadence, means you're getting 10 seconds of TUT per rep. So 6 reps you're doing 60 seconds of work.

    I use this rep cadence with normal free weights, machines and bands. But the bands seem to get the best muscle connection.

    Bodybuilders practice tensing their muscles for shows. This helps with their mind-muscle connection, but is also a concentric followed by isometric exercise. I haven't checked, but I assume this also helps with hardening their muscles.
     
  16. Lowdose69

    Lowdose69 Member

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    Your recent labs don't show SHBG or Free test, so you aren't seeing the whole picture. If E2 is good then checking DHT would be a good next step. DHT is what makes a man a man. You also mentioned lack of libido, which could indicate low dht if your total test is in range. Can you grow a beard? Hairy body?

    I eat a lot of salt (per Stan Efferding) and it keeps my muscles full/hard/strong, but I don't know if that works for everyone.

    I did not realize that coconut oil interfered with DHT. I have to start reading up on that now.
     
  17. Arrade

    Arrade Member

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    I believe it's both lineolic and lauric acid that mess with the 5ar enzyme. Topically it can directly enter the blood, I have yet to ascertain orally what its effects are.
     
  18. OP
    Mr.Tayto

    Mr.Tayto Member

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    i wouldnt know my calorie intake but it would be something like
    breakfast: 5.30am 4 egg omelette with vegetables, 3 sausages, 2 oranges and a large glass of OJ

    maybe a piece of fruit of 2 inbetween

    lunch 10am, potatoe/rice with meat or 2 chicken breasts with a salad with butter drizzled all over, almost always finished with a large fruit salad.

    fruit or carrot in between

    lunch 2pm rice/potatoes meat 2 pieces of fruit

    fruit in between

    dinner 6.30pm: rice/potatoes, vegetables, meat

    i dont know my temps. i bought thermometer so i mist start measuring.

    @aquaman its funny u mention the mind/muscle connection about 3 weeks ago i started some Maxick training, excerising the mind muscle connection through a series of poses and holding for a number of seconds. i spend about 20mins 3 nights a week doing it and wow!!! i havent trained in the gym in the last 3 weeks and this had been an outstanding substitute for it! highly recommend it!! but still there is something missing is regards to having hard muslces. i do eat a fair bit of salt more than i used too and more than from what i observe other people but i dont know is it alot. il up my intake for a few weeks a see how i go.

    i do find it hard to grow a beard so from what a few here are suspecting it could be DHT. j will definitely be looking into getting it checked... should be an interesting result either way.

    I found out last night that my cortisol is above the range so that would definitely have something got to with it aswell. Also TSH is outside the Peat range.
     

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  19. baccheion

    baccheion Member

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    TSH could be lower, as 0.8 - 2.0 is optimal. Free T4, free T3, reverse T4, reverse T3, etc are more telling.
     
  20. superhuman

    superhuman Member

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    Thats good. So just build some muscle and loose fat and you dont need to worry about all the ***t people are talking about here in terms of estrogen and all that ***t being the problem
     
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