"Soft Mucles" Even Though I Work Out

[Arrade]

How do you train? Heavier weight with lower reps vs lighter for more reps?

Also a good point

 

[Mr.Tayto]

@kreese @Arrade @jamie33 @Lowdose69
i work out 2-3 times a week try not to over do it. only lift weights no cardio, mix of compound lifts and body buidling style exercises. sets of 3-4 reps between 8-12. 30-45min sessions.

Any tips for lowering etrogen? i do carrot salads, i was on DIM but not anymore. i will try estroban again and see how is goes.

 

[Arrade]

@kreese @Arrade @jamie33 @Lowdose69
i work out 2-3 times a week try not to over do it. only lift weights no cardio, mix of compound lifts and body buidling style exercises. sets of 3-4 reps between 8-12. 30-45min sessions.

Any tips for lowering etrogen? i do carrot salads, i was on DIM but not anymore. i will try estroban again and see how is goes.

I like aromasin for quick lowering of estrogen. From there lowering bodyfat and increasing use of fat soluble vitamins, occasional use of a good Vit E like tocovit could prove a useful too.
3-4 reps would harden your muscles more, im guessing u may have known.
I'm honestly not impressed with natural ways to lower estrogen I would love to hear more myself, K and A seem too slow to me and obviously they act on their nutritional pathways.
If you set to only strength training it may increase dht more and you would harden up faster

 

[baccheion]

What's the range for the test that uses pg/mL? The result shared is given as pmol/L. It appears testosterone plummeted. Was that due to progesterone supplementation? How much did you take and how?

 

[Mr.Tayto]

@Arrade, ya i think from what you guys are saying with my estrogen being so high natural might not work or take waaayyy too long. i might try tocovit then.
i have tried 3-4 reps but i fatigue to much. think i effects my cns too much.
i dont think it reps or sets really though because when i first started training 6-8 reps was suffice for becoming strong and defined and i know you have to vary your training styles to shock the muscle to grow but not matter what training style im doing im just not holding my firmness

 

[Arrade]

Strength muscles are harder but yeah estro is the biggest issue for you atm.
You could also try exemestane it’s stronger I’m sure

CNS you overcome Through time and training just like muscle soreness. CNS fatigue shows progress in training the Beverly’s system and fast twitch muscle

 

[Mr.Tayto]

What's the range for the test that uses pg/mL? The result shared is given as pmol/L. It appears testosterone plummeted. Was that due to progesterone supplementation? How much did you take and how?

im unsure what the range is for pg/ml.
i think my test would have dropped a bit from progesterone use. i was and am every so often using it for adrenal fatigue (i know peat doesn't believe in this). i was taking between 20mg-40mg a day for a year and half. i know the 40mg is on the high side but i was uneducated about progesterone at the time and thought more was better. i was taking i topically, on my arms chest and inner thighs.

 

[baccheion]

im unsure what the range is for pg/ml.
i think my test would have dropped a bit from progesterone use. i was and am every so often using it for adrenal fatigue (i know peat doesn't believe in this). i was taking between 20mg-40mg a day for a year and half. i know the 40mg is on the high side but i was uneducated about progesterone at the time and thought more was better. i was taking i topically, on my arms chest and inner thighs.

Oh, ok. 6 mg topically is a recommended upper limit for males. You could consider iodine protocol.

 

[Mr.Tayto]

Oh, ok. 6 mg topically is a recommended upper limit for males. You could consider iodine protocol.

6mg!!! ****, i really been over doing it then so! ahhh!

what the iodine protocol? is this where you put iodine on your balls?

 

[baccheion]

6mg!!! ****, i really been over doing it then so! ahhh!

what the iodine protocol? is this where you put iodine on your balls?

Topical pregnenolone + DHEA may be better for males than taking progesterone directly. Iodine protocol involves taking milligram amounts of iodine/iodide along with companion nutrients. Among other things, it tends to reduce fatigue. Acetylcholine is associated with muscle tone.

 

[Luckytype]

I have experienced both harder softer muscles both in personal situations with normal and lower T and normal and stress higher E. All under varying body compositions. I have trained with people that are made of granite and those that arent, both types with huge physiques and power.

Life doesnt happen in a vacuum based on internet reading and "oh i read that dht does x, and anti-e does this" on steroid forums. Blindly taking things with no purpose are a good way to further unbalance yourself.

I would take a good solid look at your training, liver health, your food intakes and liquid intakes, rest, other measurable things to determine your relative health, in part anyway.

By chance do you have a liver panel? Cholesterol numbers?

What kind of body composition do you have and what does your food intake look like?

 

[Mr.Tayto]

@Luckytype Im 6'1, 97kg. i was at a steady wight around the 85kg mark most my life but this year ive put on those extra kgs. Some off those kilos are from Peatying but id say ive put on 8kgs in the last 3 months with my muscles feeling EVEN MORE softer, this coincided with my taking of cyproheptadine... (i only took cyproheptadine for 5 days though)
i dont know my body comp but most my extra weight is around my waist and lower to mid back. i would say im now average build but was not always average was always stronger than average my whole life except these past few years.

My diet consists of any fruit, oranges, apples, watermelon, pears, etc (no banana) butter, coconut oil, olive oil, salt, rice, potatoes, sweet potatoes, eggs, chicken, pork, beef, liver, carrots, all vegatables, spinach, brocolli, green peas, bok choy, capsicum etc,
Haven't drank alcohol in 5 months. Prior to that wasnt really a big drinker maybe only 2 times a month.
No bread, rarely have fast food, some dark chocolate or ice cream once or twice a week. Cant drink milk at the moment as i get very bloated from it as antibiotics i took a year ago seem to have effected my gut in this way now.

I eat alot, as where i work provides free food from breakfast, lunch and Dinner and inbetween so i take full advantage of this.

ive provided my most recent liver test. My Alt is a bit high but i had a bit of a flu at the time of testing and my doctor said that what may have caused that.
I havent had a cholesterol test from what im aware but i will ask my doctor about this.

 

[Arrade]

@Luckytype Im 6'1, 97kg. i was at a steady wight around the 85kg mark most my life but this year ive put on those extra kgs. Some off those kilos are from Peatying but id say ive put on 8kgs in the last 3 months with my muscles feeling EVEN MORE softer, this coincided with my taking of cyproheptadine... (i only took cyproheptadine for 5 days though)
i dont know my body comp but most my extra weight is around my waist and lower to mid back. i would say im now average build but was not always average was always stronger than average my whole life except these past few years.

My diet consists of any fruit, oranges, apples, watermelon, pears, etc (no banana) butter, coconut oil, olive oil, salt, rice, potatoes, sweet potatoes, eggs, chicken, pork, beef, liver, carrots, all vegatables, spinach, brocolli, green peas, bok choy, capsicum etc,
Haven't drank alcohol in 5 months. Prior to that wasnt really a big drinker maybe only 2 times a month.
No bread, rarely have fast food, some dark chocolate or ice cream once or twice a week. Cant drink milk at the moment as i get very bloated from it as antibiotics i took a year ago seem to have effected my gut in this way now.

I eat alot, as where i work provides free food from breakfast, lunch and Dinner and inbetween so i take full advantage of this.

ive provided my most recent liver test. My Alt is a bit high but i had a bit of a flu at the time of testing and my doctor said that what may have caused that.
I havent had a cholesterol test from what im aware but i will ask my doctor about this.

Take tudca or drink a lot of water, while stopping the cypro or other supplement. My liver literally healed just from drinking lot of water. I'm assuming you're below middle aged.
Stop the cypro. I don't trust it. It seems to cause bloat in users which may mean it raises estrogen (contrary to what I read) Could also be cortisol.

When did you start bloating? Is there anything like synthetic thyroid you're taking? List everything that isn't food

 

[Arrade]

I have experienced both harder softer muscles both in personal situations with normal and lower T and normal and stress higher E. All under varying body compositions. I have trained with people that are made of granite and those that arent, both types with huge physiques and power.

Life doesnt happen in a vacuum based on internet reading and "oh i read that dht does x, and anti-e does this" on steroid forums. Blindly taking things with no purpose are a good way to further unbalance yourself.

I would take a good solid look at your training, liver health, your food intakes and liquid intakes, rest, other measurable things to determine your relative health, in part anyway.

By chance do you have a liver panel? Cholesterol numbers?

What kind of body composition do you have and what does your food intake look like?

He clearly has high estrogen... aromasin exists for this reason.
I like how you are imagining this vacuum. What hormones do are often cut and dry, estrogen increases water weight and fat gain, especially the face and abdomen. This is the direct problem OP is complain of.
DHT increases myofibrillar muscle, which is "harder" and fast twitch, creating more power and is denser than sarcoplasmic. If I made something up feel free to point it out.
I agree with looking into liver health and food intake.

 

[Arrade]

Sorry for the multiple posts.
List progesterone, DHEA, anything like that you are taking.
Are you taking an herb? that could raise estrogen.
Are you using essential oils?
What supplements?

If I were you I would want to know why the estro is high, which ray peat and Danny Roddy seem to agree is one of the worst things to afflict a man.
Your liver value doesn't seem too high, I don;t think that is the sole reason for high estrogen (liver detoxes estrogen from blood)

Your diet seems pretty solid. Coconut oil could partly increase estrogen because it removes the 5 alpha reductase enzyme and DHT, so be ware of that. Could prove helpful to abstain for a bit.

 

[Mr.Tayto]

@Arrade Im 29. i only took the cyproheptadine for 5 days and then one other time.

I drink a fair amount of water. i work in the dessert so need to always be hydrated. Cyproheptadine is supposed to lower cortisol, thats why i took it. As i thoughts perhaps high cortisol was causing soft muslces but it (cyproheptadine) only made them softer. My bloating started about this time last year after taking antibiotics to get rid of a parasite infection which ive had for 3 years now and still have. Never had bloating or food intorlence prior to this. now im gluten intolerant and milk makes me bloated.

I take panesterone every 3 days 5mg.
progestrone every 3 days 20mg
Magnoil by idealabs 333mg most nights
vitamin k once every 2 weeks
Gab
MB once a week

no thyroid supplements...im abit weary of taking it

no essential oils

i was on a heap of different stuff, b vitamins, calcium, adrenal cortex, ashwanda, DIM, for 2 years but since stopped all of that, way too expensive and wasnt seeing results compared to price. In the last 6 months ive dramatically reduced the amount of supplements i use.

i am aware of the whole coconut oil-estrogen thing so i have been cylcing the cocunut oil every few days.

 

[baccheion]

im unsure what the range is for pg/ml.
i think my test would have dropped a bit from progesterone use. i was and am every so often using it for adrenal fatigue (i know peat doesn't believe in this). i was taking between 20mg-40mg a day for a year and half. i know the 40mg is on the high side but i was uneducated about progesterone at the time and thought more was better. i was taking i topically, on my arms chest and inner thighs.

Units of pg/mL seems to have the following range:
7.6 - 42.6. That is, the recommended 21.80 - 30.11 pg/mL target roughly translates to 80 - 110 pmol/L.

 

[Arrade]

@Arrade Im 29. i only took the cyproheptadine for 5 days and then one other time.

I drink a fair amount of water. i work in the dessert so need to always be hydrated. Cyproheptadine is supposed to lower cortisol, thats why i took it. As i thoughts perhaps high cortisol was causing soft muslces but it (cyproheptadine) only made them softer. My bloating started about this time last year after taking antibiotics to get rid of a parasite infection which ive had for 3 years now and still have. Never had bloating or food intorlence prior to this. now im gluten intolerant and milk makes me bloated.

I take panesterone every 3 days 5mg.
progestrone every 3 days 20mg
Magnoil by idealabs 333mg most nights
vitamin k once every 2 weeks
Gab
MB once a week

no thyroid supplements...im abit weary of taking it

no essential oils

i was on a heap of different stuff, b vitamins, calcium, adrenal cortex, ashwanda, DIM, for 2 years but since stopped all of that, way too expensive and wasnt seeing results compared to price. In the last 6 months ive dramatically reduced the amount of supplements i use.

i am aware of the whole coconut oil-estrogen thing so i have been cylcing the cocunut oil every few days.

I don’t even know what panesterone is.
I don’t know why prog would increase estrogen but it’s anti androgen as much as people want to deny that

I don’t see why you need any of that.
Maybe you should try dropping all the supplements except K and
Magnoil.
The prog is apparently an abnormal amount so I would think that’s something to target change.
I mean I drank like 12-16 glasses of water in a normal temp day. You want to pee a lot it actually works for liver. It’s not just hydration it’s like a flushing

I don’t know what’s with Peatists with the pansterone, prog, MB, thyroid syntethic hormone supplements. What’s wrong with a well rounded diet?

Seriously though what is pansterone

 

[Mr.Tayto]

Units of pg/mL seems to have the following range:
7.6 - 42.6. That is, the recommended 21.80 - 30.11 pg/mL target roughly translates to 80 - 110 pmol/L.

@baccheion
So by your calculations my estradiol numbers are within range is it?
my apologies im bad with numbers/conversions.
My doctor did say mine was slightly low at 76 that would make sense if the range is 80-110. I thought it was an odd comment by her because my estradiol had historically been high but if your calculations are right she is right too but nothing to be too concerned about at the moment perhaps?

so what REALLY is causing to soft muscles...

 

[baccheion]

@baccheion
So by your calculations my estradiol numbers are within range is it?
my apologies im bad with numbers/conversions.
My doctor did say mine was slightly low at 76 that would make sense if the range is 80-110. I thought it was an odd comment by her because my estradiol had historically been high but if your calculations are right she is right too but nothing to be too concerned about at the moment perhaps?

so what REALLY is causing to soft muscles...

Maybe you're taking too much progesterone.