"Soft Mucles" Even Though I Work Out

[Mr.Tayto]

Does anyone know why my muscles have become soft and "floppy"?

I was always strong and athletic until the age of 22 when my chronic fatigue which i suspect set in from over training, under eating, marijuana use and SSRi's. When i was really working out from 18-22, my muscles were always solid and strong even in resting state i looked very toned.

Now no matter what kind of training i do i cant seem to keep that toned look. Im 28 now and i know thats no excuse for looking untoned as alot of my peers are still toned and ripped.

Im not going for the ripped look either as that too me its unhealty, more rugby player type build is what i want to achieve.

I have some theories but i cant really confirm them....
SSRI use causing some sort of lasting effect like muscle wasting and the SSRi throwing my natural ability to build muscle out of whack...
i took the Ssris for 1 year and that was 7 years ago, would the effects really be that long lasting if this theory was true. i couldnt find any literature to prove this theory though and also ive heard of high level athletes on SSris and it doesnt "SEEM" to hinder their abilities.
Could someone prove or disprove this theory?

My next theory is as follows:
My doctor prescribed me Viagra when my host of other other problems started happening low libido being one of them. I would have a taken a fair anount of viagra in the years from the ages of 19-23. Not so much the last 5 years though but every now and again.
Ive noticed that when ive taken supplements for the gym that raise NO that my muscles feel softer but look more "plump". I thinking because NO supplements and viagra perhaps are kind of the same (correct me if im wrong) that maybe the Viagra has slowly "softened" my muscles over the long term in the way that NO supplements do for the short term.

Also along with loss of firmness/tonedness im finding it hard to get my strength up.

Ive attached some blood work showing T levels etc,

Could someone please prove or disprove these theories or add in their own?

 

[Arrade]

Raising DHT and lowering estrogen is usually what is done to harden muscles.
You may want to measure your dht levels, and find some way to raise them

 

[Nicolas Noyola]

you have high estradiol and low progesterone as per your results; perhaps that would be an issue to start to remedy

 

[Mr.Tayto]

Hi @Nicolas Noyola, the progestrone figure is from 2015. this was prior to me supplementing with it. Started supplementing it shortly after my 2015 test, up until 2017. I didnt notice much help in muscle growth while i used it just made my skin fresher and brighter and also didnt notice much in it helping to relieve fatigue or help libido (expect for the 1st week i used it, i felt like a teenager again but that effect didnt last long). Also used dhea and pregnenolone and didnt help much for faituge, muscles or libido. It just made me skinny and "better looking". again no effect on muscles. My estradiol is at 76 now down from 121. i think you may have mixed the test dates up. unless im your opinion you reckon my estradiol is still high.?

@Arrade im a bit weary to start messing with my DHT levels as i have a full head of hair and would hate to lose it ha. I must read up more about DHT. But i will get tested for it and see what my doc reckons.

 

[Arrade]

Hi @Nicolas Noyola, the progestrone figure is from 2015. this was prior to me supplementing with it. Started supplementing it shortly after my 2015 test, up until 2017. I didnt notice much help in muscle growth while i used it just made my skin fresher and brighter and also didnt notice much in it helping to relieve fatigue or help libido (expect for the 1st week i used it, i felt like a teenager again but that effect didnt last long). Also used dhea and pregnenolone and didnt help much for faituge, muscles or libido. It just made me skinny and "better looking". again no effect on muscles. My estradiol is at 76 now down from 121. i think you may have mixed the test dates up. unless im your opinion you reckon my estradiol is still high.?

@Arrade im a bit weary to start messing with my DHT levels as i have a full head of hair and would hate to lose it ha. I must read up more about DHT. But i will get tested for it and see what my doc reckons.

I wouldn’t add synthetic DHT. Just supplement creatine or other natural things

76 is really high estrogen. For good health you want 15-30

I would wager lowering the estrogen would solve the issue

 

[Nicolas Noyola]

Hi @Nicolas Noyola, the progestrone figure is from 2015. this was prior to me supplementing with it. Started supplementing it shortly after my 2015 test, up until 2017. I didnt notice much help in muscle growth while i used it just made my skin fresher and brighter and also didnt notice much in it helping to relieve fatigue or help libido (expect for the 1st week i used it, i felt like a teenager again but that effect didnt last long). Also used dhea and pregnenolone and didnt help much for faituge, muscles or libido. It just made me skinny and "better looking". again no effect on muscles. My estradiol is at 76 now down from 121. i think you may have mixed the test dates up. unless im your opinion you reckon my estradiol is still high.?

@Arrade im a bit weary to start messing with my DHT levels as i have a full head of hair and would hate to lose it ha. I must read up more about DHT. But i will get tested for it and see what my doc reckons.

76 is not high but theres always room for improvement right :) . is the dhea you have topical? where do you apply it?

 

[Arrade]

76 is not high but theres always room for improvement right :) . is the dhea you have topical? where do you apply it?

Bro it shouldn’t be above 30

 

[Arrade]

The men in the balanced quintile—with the fewest deaths—had serum estradiollevels between 21.80 and 30.11 pg/mL. This is virtually the ideal range that Life Extension® has long recommended male members strive for.

The men in the highest quintile who suffered 133% increased death rates had serum estradiol levels of 37.40pg/mL or above. The lowest estradiol group that suffered a 317% increased death rate had serum estradiol levels under 12.90 pg/mL.

Estrogen Balance and Aging Men - page 1 | Life Extension

 

[Mr.Tayto]

@Nicolas Noyola the dhea i had was oral pills that i was getting through a compound pharmacy. i stopped for 3 months but recently i ordered some idealabs panesterone which is topical Dhea/pregnenolone 5mg which i have started applying on the wrist every few days

 

[Mr.Tayto]

@Arrade the range for estradiol is
28-156pg/ml in the test i took but life extension recommends lower than the lowest range. Can this be right, ive noticed that when i took DIM and estroban i felt perhaps my estrogen was too low but cant confirm this, it just "felt" that way i.e. lower libido. i heard some estrogen is needed and is healthy in men. i know 15-30pg/ml is 'some' but seem almost too low.
i will do some more research. Any idea what Peat recommends is the range for estradiol in men?

 

[Arrade]

@Arrade the range for estradiol is
28-156pg/ml in the test i took but life extension recommends lower than the lowest range. Can this be right, ive noticed that when i took DIM and estroban i felt perhaps my estrogen was too low but cant confirm this, it just "felt" that way i.e. lower libido. i heard some estrogen is needed and is healthy in men. i know 15-30pg/ml is 'some' but seem almost too low.
i will do some more research. Any idea what Peat recommends is the range for estradiol in men?

Those blood tests also say 200 tests is acceptable, which is 1/4th -1/6th what I would consider optimal.
Sorry I’m not sure but Peat is pretty anti estrogen
Estrogen makes you hold water and fat, which is why I thought it was softening your muscles

 

[Arrade]

I’m surprised because my libido is highest around 17 pg /ml
Honestly I can’t see anything above 30 being best for any man from what I understand

But maybe something like higher test it’s better to be balanced with somewhat higher estrogen. If I had to make a guess

 

[LCohen]

DHT is what you need.

 

[Nicolas Noyola]

@Nicolas Noyola the dhea i had was oral pills that i was getting through a compound pharmacy. i stopped for 3 months but recently i ordered some idealabs panesterone which is topical Dhea/pregnenolone 5mg which i have started applying on the wrist every few days

if you are willing, possibly try penile application. to my knowledge, 5-alpha reductase is expressed much more in penile tissue than other body parts, so applying dhea there will aid downstream conversion into DHT. i dont think ive ever had libido increase from applying it anywhere other than *that* area

 

[Mr.Tayto]

@Nicolas Noyola will def give that a go when i get home!

 

[kreeese]

could be your program what exactly are u doing in gym? height weight body fat % Now that Im working out properly and lowered my body fat Im hard I am also 50 years old lifetime drug and supplement free

 

[Arrade]

I don't see why people aren't agreeing the obvious issue is the high estrogen. Bodybuilders completely remove their estrogen when they go on stage.
Estrogen causes water retention. It opposes DHT
Lower the estro, which is by the way a Peaty concept

 

[YourUniverse]

How do you train? Heavier weight with lower reps vs lighter for more reps?

 

[Lowdose69]

I don't see why people aren't agreeing the obvious issue is the high estrogen. Bodybuilders completely remove their estrogen when they go on stage.
Estrogen causes water retention. It opposes DHT
Lower the estro, which is by the way a Peaty concept

This is the answer. My wife won't sleep on my arm because she says I feel too hard. I keep estrogen in check with letrozole once a week. Balanced hormones, enough carbs, and a recent workout will keep you hard and toned.

 

[Arrade]

This is the answer. My wife won't sleep on my arm because she says I feel too hard. I keep estrogen in check with letrozole once a week. Balanced hormones, enough carbs, and a recent workout will keep you hard and toned.

*Dab Emoji*