Sodium/Potassium Balance

Lin

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Cronometer has come out with some new features (for gold plan members). They show a PRAL Alkalinity scale, zinc : copper ratio, calcium : magnesium ratio, and sodium : potassium ratio. Any of these could be a topic in itself.
As you probably know, RP recommended diet is pretty low in sodium because we don't eat processed foods. I can't even get the recommended amount of sodium unless I log my added salt.
But, I was wondering about sodium/potassium ratio. Usually when I log my food, potassium is lacking, and I was wondering if I should supplement it...
Now that they show the ratio, it looks like I need even more sodium to make the ratio ideal, even though the potassium is less than the recommended amount. I tried entering enough salt to get the ratio into the "ideal" range. I had to add enough salt to put sodium into the danger zone!
Suspect the developers of the program made a mistake... Their email support link doesn't work though.
Or is the so called minimum requirement of potassium too high? Seems many members report not getting enough.
 
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Mittir

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This topic has been discussed in old threads. RP thinks exact ratio of alkaline minerals
does not matter as long as total alkaline minerals are high. He also thinks body can
handle a big excess of alkaline substances like fruits, vegetables and milk.
Alkaline minerals compensate for each other to a great extent.
He also added that if calcium and sodium intake is high
then one need not to worry much about potassium and magnesium. Low thyroid people
can not hold magnesium and they have extra need for magnesium. Healthy person
can retain most of the magnesium and their requirement is much lower than RDA.
Salt / sodium is a major part of his recommendation for many reasons, it lowers
adrenaline, lowers edema, increases metabolism etc. Baking soda is a good
alternative to regular salt. Milk, coffee and fruit juices are quite high in potassium
and i do not find difficult to reach RDA for potassium.
He discussed this in many audio interviews, especially in KMUD "Alkaline and Acid".
 
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Lin

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I'm sorry, Mitter, to bring up something that has been discussed before. Sometimes, after all the discussion, I have trouble remembering what the conclusions were...
I am a 5'1" female, and it seems the others who don't get recommended potassium are short women.
On another note, I tried taking increasing my magnesium glycinate enough to balance my calcium and slept better than I have in ages! (I had been taking 400 mg, increased to 800 mg)
 

Mittir

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RP recommends sugar, T3 and magnesium for sleep problems.
In some cases magnesium acts like thyroid hormone.
Magnesium and Thyroid hormones together works best.
People can have good resting sleep just from increasing sugar or
T3 without increasing magnesium. He also mentioned how high PTH
causes insomnia and calcium intake can improve insomnia by lowering
PTH. All these things are interconnected. It is hard to conclude something
just by increasing one mineral. Increasing magnesium improves sleep,
is it a result of calcium:magnesium ratio or there is some other mechanism.
Ratio of cal:mag plays role in PTH and there other factors and ratio that
also influences PTH.

I think RDA is based on 2000 calories diet and a smaller person can have
lower caloric intake and that should have different RDA for many minerals
and vitamins. If some one believes in maintaining all the mineral ratio they
can always do that and in most cases it will increase total alkaline mineral intake.
 

pboy

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RDA potassium is quite high, youd have to have probably a 3-4000 calorie diet to actually require that much. I think the only ratio that matters as far as minerals go is calcium to phosphorus, with the rest...you just need a certain amount of them per general calories/liquid you are consuming. For someone your size...maybe a 2000 calorie diet, youd probably be fine with about 60% potassium, 30-40% mag, 90-100% calcium as a safe minimum, but don't need much more than that. It also depends on your ratio of sugar+protein to fat. Fat intake hardly requires any minerals, but the more sugar/protein the more minerals you need...so you might need more than that if your diet is predominatly carb/protein

As per sodium potassium balance, you can consume (from food) a near unlimited amount of potassium and be fine, it doesn't matter if it skews the ratio to sodium. And as per sodium, you just need a certain minimum

wanted to add also, im not sure the minimum exactly of sodium, but to light taste is a good indicator. The more energy and faster your metabolism is the more easily the body can rid any excess. Extra magnesium beyond its own requirement can help bind phosphorus so the calcium to phosphorus ratio goes up
 

chris

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When people talk about a "high" amount of sodium to be beneficial, what is a specific figure of a "high" amount of sodium that would be beneficial?
 

Mittir

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pboy said:
As per sodium potassium balance, you can consume (from food) a near unlimited amount of potassium and be fine, it doesn't matter if it skews the ratio to sodium. And as per sodium, you just need a certain minimum

He has mentioned that body can handle a a big excess of alkaline mineral intake.
But, when someone asked him about potassium bicarbonate vs sodium bicarbonate
he mentioned that sodium bicarbonate is safer as people are good at excreting
sodium more than potassium. Sodium and calcium are mostly extra cellular
electrolyte, that is probably why he mentioned if calcium and sodium intake is high
then there no need to worry much about other two alkaline mineral.
Hypothyroid people have problem retaining both sodium and magnesium.
He also mentioned about older people having problem retaining salt.
Protein intake plays a big role here, which increases albumin and ability to
hold both water and sodium.

Another interesting substance is fructose, which blocks absorption of phosphate
and increase secretion of phosphate through kidney. This causes higher retention
of both calcium and magnesium. He mentioned that if fructose intake is high
then one can get away with phosphorus intake 2-3 times the calcium.
There are so many reasons to drinks Apple juice...
 
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Lin

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Thank you, Mitter and Pboy, such good info! I have Martinelli's apple juice on my grocery list now. I get enough calcium from dairy foods usually. The only time I supplement calcium is when I have had something high in phosphorus.
This is the most intelligent website on the internet!
 

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