Sodium, Lithium, Parkinson's

Discussion in 'Scientific Studies' started by Such_Saturation, Oct 19, 2014.

  1. Such_Saturation

    Such_Saturation Member

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    Ray Peat has grouped Parkinson's disease with other effects of insufficient energy and calcium hyperexcitation. It can bee seen that lithium selects for healthier mitochondria: [http://www.raypeatforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=4169&p=50330].

    Lithium has many commonalities with sodium.

    [​IMG]

    Lithium - a new weapon in the fight against Parkinson's?

    Investigating the Mechanism of Lithium Treatment of a Parkinson’s Disease Model with SRF Intern Sean Batir

    Malignant syndrome in Parkinson's disease without dopaminergic drug withdrawal

    Bipolar disorder is treated with lithium and has associations with Parkinson's disease. [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12548347]

    Bipolar Disorder And Gene Abnormalities: Sodium, Calcium Imbalances Linked To Manic Depressive Episodes

    [Calcium antagonists and lithium in preventive treatment of manic-depressive disorder].

    Hyponatremia-induced change in mood mimicking late-onset bipolar disorder.

    So we have, according to Ling's Association-Induction "hypothesis", that chronic hyperexcitation deranges the seesaw of sodium and calcium, depleting energy in the process.

    Sodium Influx Plays a Major Role in the Membrane Depolarization Induced by Oxygen and Glucose Deprivation in Rat Striatal Spiny Neurons

    When the mitochondria work well, they order the water around them, keeping the nerve polarized and bringing themselves where their field is most needed.

    Motile Axonal Mitochondria Contribute to the Variability of Presynaptic Strength

    Mitochondrial transport in neurons: impact on synaptic homeostasis and neurodegeneration

    A high density of Na+ channels and Na+/K+ ATPases at the nodes of Ranvier is essential for myelinated axons to conduct high-velocity nerve impulses and to permit repetitive firing. Thus, regions near nodes of Ranvier have a high energy demand.


    Owing to the complex geometry of neurons, specialized mechanisms are required to transport mitochondria to their destinations and to ensure that mitochondria remain stationary in regions with a high demand for energy production and Ca2+ homeostatic capacity.
     
  2. OP
    Such_Saturation

    Such_Saturation Member

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    It is hard to say, part of its effects on stabilizing the balance seem to be due to its differences with sodium. Perhaps it is easier or harder to displace by calcium, it is closer to calcium than sodium is on the Hofmeister series. It is more electronegative than sodium on the Pauling scale. Sodium has an opposite effect than calcium on NMDA but lithium lacks this apparently. Ray Peat has written that lithium binds with ammonia, a substance which kills through NMDA excitation [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/12020609/]

    Best I can think of is comparing solubilities in the hydroxide form (???) which for sodium is around five to ten times that for lithium. Personally i find three or more grams of salt soothing.
     
  3. pboy

    pboy Member

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    interesting, lithium used to be sold at drug stores for mood purposes...it was the main ingredient in 7 up originally. I wonder if its toxic or not long term
     
  4. sunmountain

    sunmountain Member

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    I've heard that lithium orotate is safe.
     
  5. BigPapaChakra

    BigPapaChakra Member

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    Despite her emphasis on genetics (and epigenetics), methylation, etc. Dr. Yasko has spoken a lot about the effects of lithium, calcium balance (or, at least a lack of excitotoxicity induced by intracellular calcium), and so forth. She discussed buying this water for her and her children to drink: http://lithiamineralwater.com/

    If I'm not mistaken, there's just under a milligram of lithium in the water. Sounds like very little, but low dose lithium appears to have the potential to increase the lifespan via mitochondrial protection/enhancement, decrease the rate of suicide, etc:

    Low-dose lithium uptake promotes longevity in humans and metazoans (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3151375/)

    Effects of Lithium on Age-related Decline in Mitochondrial Turnover and Function in Caenorhabditis elegans (http://biomedgerontology.oxfordjournals ... 0.abstract)
     
  6. Memento

    Memento Member

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  7. OP
    Such_Saturation

    Such_Saturation Member

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  8. Travis

    Travis Member

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    Nice find. A modern investigation of the Mg²⁺–ATP complex.

    Just earlier is closing-out some of the excessive windows I have open, on my computer, and had decided to leave this one up:
    • Khan, MM Taqui, and A. E. Martell. "Metal Chelates of Adneosine Triphoshate." The Journal of Physical Chemistry 66.1 (1962): 10-15.

    atp.png

    . ..looks like I'll just -that one out as well. The study you'd posted makes this older one look crude (but the data seems reliable in case anyone wants to cross-check Dudev's work.)

    Dudev has graphically-represented the most stable Mg²⁺–ATP complex as having hydrogen bonds to the phosphates in addition to one with a hydroxyl.. . ..on the pentose ring! This must surely be true, and I wonder why nobody had imagined such a thing before.. . ..one of those "why didn't I think of that" kind of moments.

    atp2.png
     
  9. magnesiumania

    magnesiumania Member

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    I find 5 mg of lithium orotate to lift my mood but not when taken too often. Actually its been about 3-4 weeks since i had any lithium and i took 5mg and had a brain orgasm. The iinfo on NMDA receptors to these minerals was very insightful and revealing as to how i react the way i do to each electrolyte/mineral.
     
  10. Herbie

    Herbie Member

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  11. magnesiumania

    magnesiumania Member

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    Could you please summarize the key points quickly if you worked through the whole thing? Altered thyroid function seem neutral when considering the pros and cons of supplementing. Personally ive found that lithium give me a positive effect when taken very occasionally so thats what i do =)
     
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