Sodium Chlorite(MMS)

JR75

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I purchased a product awhile back labeled as MMS(Miracle Mineral Solution) which is actually Sodium Chlorite and it was touted as a cure for many things, of which, I can or can not say are true. Has anyone here had any experience with this product and would it be beneficial for anything in line with what Dr. Peat recommends?
 

messtafarian

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It's a bleach they use to whiten paper and clean swimming pools. I think it's a poison, even though I suppose it could be some kind of chelator. Even so there are much better and safer chelators.
 

burtlancast

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The Red Cross sponsored in late 2012 an MMS trial in Uganda to verify if it could cure malaria in a few days, as advertised.

The trial took place: 154 person were ALL cured of their malaria. After the results came in, the top bosses of the red cross DENIED any trial ever took place, to the consternation of their own workers in place who administered the cure.

[BBvideo 560,340:r7vuzgkf]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrwZN1cPfX8[/BBvideo]
 

messtafarian

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In response to the gentleman who gave me a negative reputation point and told me to do some "research" before commenting, I offer the first from Wikipedia. We can start with the first sentence:

The main application of sodium chlorite is the generation of chlorine dioxide for bleaching and stripping of textiles, pulp, and paper. It is also used for disinfection of a few municipal water treatment plants after conversion to chlorine dioxide.[1]:2 An advantage in this application, as compared to the more commonly used chlorine, is that trihalomethanes (such as chloroform) are not produced from organic contaminants.[1]:25,33 Chlorine dioxide generated from sodium chlorite is approved by FDA under some conditions for disinfecting water used to wash fruits, vegetables, and poultry.[2]

Safety

Sodium chlorite, like many oxidizing agents, should be protected from inadvertent contamination by organic materials to avoid the formation of an explosive mixture. The chemical explodes on percussive impact,[15] and will ignite if combined with a strong reducing agent.

The reason it is not considered particularly safe is because it can explode; *if improperly mixed with organic materials*. On percussive impact.

Toxicity

Sodium chlorite is a strong oxidant and can therefore be expected to cause clinical symptoms similar to the well known sodium chlorate: methemoglobinemia, hemolysis, renal failure.[16] A dose of 10-15 grams of sodium chlorate can be lethal.[17] Methemoglobemia had been demonstrated in rats and cats,[18] and recent studies by the EMEA have confirmed that the clinical symptomatology is very similar to the one caused by sodium chlorate in rats, mice, rabbits, and green monkeys.[19]

There is only one human case in the medical literature of chlorite poisoning.[20] It seems to confirm that the toxicity is equal to sodium chlorate. From the analogy with sodium chlorate, even small amounts of about 1 gram can be expected to cause nausea, vomiting and even life-threatening hemolysis in Glucose-6-Phosphate Dehydrogenase deficient persons.

The EPA has set a maximum contaminant level of 1 milligram of chlorite per liter (1 mg/L) in drinking water.[21]

The citation given for the section toxicity is this one:

ISBN:9780071437639 Goldfrank's Toxicological Emergencies. It is an authoritative textbook on getting poisoned by stuff.

Here is the Wikipedia Page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_chl ... te_note-16

Here is the Issuance of the New Jersey Department of Health and Human Services Hazardous Substance Fact Sheet.

http://nj.gov/health/eoh/rtkweb/documents/fs/1689.pdf

Here is a web page entitled: Sodium Chlorite Poisoning on Medline Plus:

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency ... 002488.htm

Here is a PubMed article from 1993 detailing the fate of a person who took 10mgs of Sodium Chlorite and his kidneys failed.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8290712.

ETA: Dr. Peat continues to advice emphasizing whole foods over fractionated or chemically altered substances in order to manage optimum health. If we are concerned about the endotoxin connected to beans, wheat and rye I am not sure why it is so concerning that I would offer some personal reservations about eating chlorine.
 

burtlancast

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:lol:

Really ?

Copying and pasting wikipedia/ nih.gov articles on a Ray Peat forum ?

I guess next time you're going to tell us cholesterol causes heart disease....
 

messtafarian

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I have an idea. Since you don't believe that sodium chlorite is a toxic substance why don't you ingest a lot of it and report back here to the group? Then we'll know for sure that the government is lying to us.
 

burtlancast

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I have an idea.
Why don't you take the time to evaluate the arguments in other people's posts ( videos are part of an argument) you're claiming to respond to, and report back here , instead of posting as fact the word of certified & proven liars and thiefs ?
 

messtafarian

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Okay.

I did watch this video. It is on a Youtube channel called "MMSTestimonials." Linked beneath the video in the text is the "MMS Wiki" from which one can purchase "MMS".

I have spent a lot of time with scholarly journals, controlled and clinical trials and other types of published discovery science dealing mainly with the biology of the human gut. I would be happy to explain to you the historical reasoning behind the convention of offering citations of published research and the process of peer review, and why citations are a bit more compelling as evidence than a so-called "leaked" youtube video that sells toxic industrial salts as medicine.

But since you consider youtube videos more convincing than published peer-reviewed scholarly or government research, textbooks or hazardous material warnings, here is a video for you. This is what happens when you mix sodium chlorite with vitamin c, and stir them together:

[BBvideo 560,340:1y2n9u7m]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLawcrgIUsU[/BBvideo]
 

burtlancast

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messtafarian said:
Okay.
and why citations are a bit more compelling as evidence than a so-called "leaked" youtube video that sells toxic industrial salts as medicine.

You can go to wiki's citations on Burzynski claiming his anti cancer therapy hasn't been proven effective in medical trials.

In the meantime he's curing hundreds of patients of brain tumors, while doing his possible to avoid the governament stealing his patents.

My video proves The Red Cross sponsored MMS trials in Uganda in 2012 to see if it could cure malaria in a few days, just as Jim Humble wrote in his books for the past ten years.

The Red Cross workers has no dog in the MMS race, they were just there to test it.
They were as independent as one can be.

The trial proved successful in 100% of the cases.
Yet the Red Cross top management disavowed their own medical trials once it was known to be successful.

And the local Red Cross workers are obviously not cooperating with the coverup of their bosses.

All your citations will do nothing to disprove these facts.
 

messtafarian

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I don't have to disprove anything because the things you are saying are not facts.

Jim Humble is the archbishop of *his own church.* Literally the man founded a church he is the archbishop of.

Neither the International Federation of the Red Cross and Red Crescent Societies nor the International Committee of the Red Cross performs clinical trials at all -- ever. These are not medical research organizations. If you are unfamiliar with the scope of their international social work, you can read about it here:

http://www.ifrc.org/en/what-we-do/health/

This is their statement regarding MMS:

http://www.ifrc.org/en/news-and-media/o ... t-malaria/

One reason they would dissociate from such a claim is that if they did perform such a test it would be highly unethical and exploitative. One does not test the effects of a potentially lethal chemical by asking a naive population to ingest it. Unless one happens to be a Nazi; they were kind of big on this.

If such a "trial" was performed it would certainly be something to dissociate from not because " the government" ( the government being a separate entity from the International Red Cross, which is a chartered NGO -- an acronym for "non government organization") is trying to hide it but because doing so would be a violation of the human rights of that population. Considering the Red Cross is one of the only organizations that is even interested in international human rights, it seems quite unlikely they would suddenly ignore these for any reason, much less to discover miracle cures.
 

burtlancast

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messtafarian said:
nor the International Committee of the Red Cross performs clinical trials at all -- ever

You idiot.
Just a quick google search with the words " red cross clinical trial" shows your statement to be a lie.
Clinical Research

Pilot implementation of an iron replacement program in female donors aged 18-45 years
Genetic polymorphisms that Predict Response to RhD and Other Red Blood Cell Antigens
Clinical studies of evidence-based IVIG dosing
Incidence of Transfusion-Acquired Microchimerism (TAM) in massively-transfused individuals.
Autologous serum eye drops (ASED) II
A placebo controlled three arm interventional study assessing the safety and efficacy giving young donors Gatorade prior to normal whole blood donation.
Evaluating appropriate use of blood products in mothers and babies (OBOE)
Age of Blood Pilot Study - ANU Collaborative Project
Sax Institute - 45 & Up study
Transfusion Outcomes Research Collaborative (TORC)
Transfusion Outcomes Research Collaborative (TORC) II - Extension
Transfusion Research: Improving Outcomes (TRIO)
StandarRd issue trANsfusion versuS Fresher red blood cell Use in intenSive carE - TRANSFUSE (Age of Blood)

The HIV Netherlands Australia Thailand Research Collaboration (HIV-NAT) is the largest international HIV clinical research unit within the Thai Red Cross AIDS Research Centre (TRC-ARC). It was established in 1996 as a collaboration between the TRC-ARC, the Kirby Institute of Infections and Immunity in Society/University of New South Wales in Sydney, Australia and the Amsterdam institute in Global Health and Development in Amsterdam, The Netherlands. HIV-NAT has been in the forefront in the field of HIV clinical research in Thailand and in the SEA region.

So much for the Red Cross ever initiating clinical trials !


messtafarian said:
If such a "trial" was performed it would certainly be something to dissociate from not because " the government" is trying to hide it but because doing so would be a violation of the human rights of that population

Again, idiot.

The governament has allowed for tens of years the pharma industry to poison the population with chemicals whose safety and efficiency was fabricated out of thin air ( not my words: Ray's !!)

Worse, it has conducted unlawful experments on unsuspecting civilians with biological warfare agents for the same time period .
(even your beloved Wikipedia has an article about it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Sta ... ndividuals)
Google the radiation experiment, the Tuskgee experiment, etc...
(http://www.whale.to/a/cantwell9.html)
 

burtlancast

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And, just to set the record straight with all those who don't like me putting idiot people who use Wikipedia as a trusted source for alternative medecine and make up things as they go along into their place:

i have already mentioned on these forums i have used MMS multiple times ( and others members of my family as well) for these last three years to treat heavy colds, with always spectacular results.

:2cents
 

charlie

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Oh come on burt. I think you can share your view on something without calling someone an idiot. The world is full of lies right now, and it can be really hard to wade through them all. Even if you are right, calling someone an idiot is going to make it harder for the truth to get through.

I do appreciate you sharing your views on what you think is right about the MMS. I just would hope we could do it a little bit more peacefully. :hattip

[BBvideo 560,340:eek:qceyexg]http://youtu.be/1sONfxPCTU0[/BBvideo]
 

burtlancast

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Charlie said:
Oh come on burt. I think you can share your view on something without calling someone an idiot. The world is full of lies right now, and it can be really hard to wade through them all. Even if you are right, calling someone an idiot is going to make it harder for the truth to get through.

Charlie,

I believe this forums attracts a lot of trolls who argue against all facts and evidence and turn away a lot of knowledgeable posters who care more about PR than i do.

Health and medecine misconduct isn't like any other topic; some people come here for life saving advice; i don't believe thus trolls should be handled gently.

I can deal with a genuine difference of opinion and stay polite and civile, i've demonstrated it multiple times, but not with someone just making up things as he goes along.

I'm just going to make a suggestion which you're free to ignore; why not divide this forum into two sections: one would comprise the people distrusting official medecine, governament and wikipedia, and the other those trusting them.

I can't fathom after everything Ray has written that some "fans" would come here and argue with a straight face the exact opposite of what he demonstrated multiple times.
 

messtafarian

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No. You are thinking of the Thai Red Cross Research Center, which specifically does AIDS Research. This is not the International Red Cross. Here is the Thai Red Cross Research Center web page:

http://english.redcross.or.th/content/page/954

This is a specific AZT initiative that has a specific charter through the World Health Organization. It is not the International Red Cross. Now -- if there had been such a clinical trial or test done by the International Red Cross you would be able to clearly see it by going to PubMed and searching for it. PubMed is an extremely advanced and useful resource that is used by researchers the world over, including, I am quite certain; Ray Peat -- since I really don't know where else one can get easily get to an array of published research of that breadth--- something like the Web of Science would also index research but it is very expensive to subscribe.

However since the only research they do is specifically AIDs research it is highly unlikely that *they* ever did any clinical trials on anything but AIDs medicine.

When any research is funded for any reason, there must be a paper trail of it somewhere because this is an ironclad condition of any funding grants. You can't just grab some salt and give it to some villagers and pretend you never did it. I mean you can, but if you did, it would be, as I said, an extreme ethical violation.

Please note that the research indexed on PubMed is not archived from the US only. This is an international database. Although you may not trust the government, research scientists tend to be extremely ethical for the most part and when they are not they get into big trouble and lose their careers. Speaking of which -- if there *was* an MMS trial there would have been a research group supervising it and you would have heard something from them by now.

Here is the search I did, on PubMed -- under "sodium chlorite."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?ter ... m+chlorite

The only listings have to do with cases of poisoning and toxicity.

By the way -- medicine is spelled with an "i". "Medicine". And that is a fact.

I am glad you are having success eating chlorine burtlancast but this is snake oil of the most transparent kind.
 

charlie

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messtafarian said:
PubMed is an extremely advanced and useful resource that is used by researchers the world over, including, I am quite certain; Ray Peat -- since I really don't know where else one can get easily get to an array of published research of that breadth--- something like the Web of Science would also index research but it is very expensive to subscribe.

What Ray Peat has said about Pubmed.

Ray Peat said:
People have told me that when they looked for articles on fructose in PubMed they couldn't find anything except articles about its bad effects. There are two reasons for that. PubMed, like the earlier Index Medicus, represents the material in the National Library of Medicine, and is a medical, rather than a scientific, database, and there is a large amount of important research that it ignores. And because of the authoritarian and conformist nature of the medical profession, when a researcher observes something that is contrary to majority opinion, the title of the publication is unlikely to focus on that. In too many articles in medical journals, the title and conclusions positively misrepresent the data reported in the article.
messtafarian said:
Although you may not trust the government, research scientists tend to be extremely ethical for the most part and when they are not they get into big trouble and lose their careers.
Well I dunno bout that. If these research scientists were so ethical us humans would not be in the pickle that we are in with our health. So I would like to respectfully disagree with your statement. :hattip
 
J

j.

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messtafarian said:
Although you may not trust the government, research scientists tend to be extremely ethical for the most part and when they are not they get into big trouble and lose their careers.

That's absolutely ridiculous, otherwise there wouldn't be such harmful recommendations almost a century after it was proven they're bad (it was shown that PUFAs slow down metabolism about 100 years ago, and still today they deny that PUFAs affect metabolism. Just ask your endocrinologist: would eating PUFA slow down my metabolism? He'll likely laugh.).

So if they're ethical, they're absolute idiots. One or the other, absolute idiots or people who don't care about doing harm to others.

Also, I disagree with this: "when they are not they get into big trouble and lose their careers". It's the opposite. When they act ethically is that they lose their careers. When their studies show results contrary to what the people funding them wanted, they never get funding again.
 

messtafarian

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:). Charlie:

What Ray Peat is saying is correct: there are experiments that are not published on PubMed. It is a *medical* database -- it does not archive experiments on all kinds of things. He is also saying something else that makes tremendous sense: these reports have to be *read* and that is one of the things I like about Ray Peat. Dr. Peat does not say, however, that he does not use PubMed. What he does do is actually read the research and point out glaringly obvious problems with it once is is published.

I work for a DNA research group of scientists that does receive funding from the NIH as well as many other government and corporate sponsors. The men and women involved in this endeavor are deeply committed what they do. They do not lie or cheat and they are not trying to hide or cover up anything they discover. They also face extreme reprimand and sometimes prison for falsifying research.

I think people have an extremely cinematic and simplistic view of what goes on in research labs. For all those splashy headlines you've got a million people patiently growing and documenting generation after generation of fruit flies and rat gut motility and the DNA of lactobacilli. It is painstaking work. I have seen what happens when researchers chase big grant money and it does tend to lead even the most resolute of researchers down, let's say, a garden path. Mostly they complain that they can not extend their discovery to what they *really* want to know -- because the government or big business is not interested in discovery science -- it is interested in public policy and consumer applications.

How researchers get their *own* research done....that might be, I'd say -- somewhat of an open secret :)

By the way -- the biggest crime in all this is that if "big pharma" pays for research, it gets to keep it. Their research endeavors are breathtaking in scope and expense. These companies are appropriating the hardest and best work of the some of the smartest and most committed people on the planet in order to turn bucks on a gargantuan scale. Whatever they know, whatever they *don't know -- they aint telling. And they don't have to.
 
J

j.

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I think you might be confusing "being ethical" with "following orders".
 

messtafarian

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How research science comes about is -- the principal investigator and his team propose research to the government in the form of an intention to *research exactly what the government wants to know about.*. There is a review board at the government agency that sifts through these grant applications which, before the age of the internet, would be a stack of paper knee to thigh-high. In other words, these grants are applications to answer exactly the questions the government is asking; a process that can take three to six months to compose. In order to receive funding, one must prove that one *already* has the facilities in place to conduct it -- for example a research lab, and millions of dollars of equipment and labor -- in place before the fact, to even be considered.

When the grant is awarded, it is awarded in yearly chunks to cover only *exactly* what the researcher has documented he needs to get his experiments done. There is a meticulous budget that is approved by the funding agency and no deviation is allowed.

Five years pass.

At the end of the five years, the researcher will present his findings to the grantor and MUST publish what his experiments have uncovered in the five years and five million dollars' worth of painstaking work.

And the publication will say -- "Effects of banana starch molecules on the gut motility in the common mus musculus.'

And that's it. For all of that, what you get is the results of one investigation. After this, there is an audit of the entire protocol over the entire period. If any money has been spent without approval, if *anything* is amiss -- the researcher has to give the money back. It happens and I've seen it happen. And if a researcher has to give the money back, then people lose their jobs *because they lose their funding.* And their invitation to apply for more grants. So they don't lie. And they don't misappropriate funds. And they compete to do the best research they can given the limitations they are working under.

If scientific and medical research is misguided or contaminated by special interests of one kind or another, then it takes an outsider like Ray Peat to point this out. I admire him very much for his intelligent reading of the body of knowledge that exists already under this imperfect system. Because frankly it's all we've got.
 
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