Social Anxiety Ruined My Life

[Social anxiety]

I think it is animalistic to think "at least I am not them" to push down social anxiety. I think that is ultimately not a good pathway or outlook. If we size up every other person we see as a dyadic relationship of who's better off, ranking each other in a dualistic way, to boost ourselves up, well, it starts to be pretty predatory. Or even creepy; like wanting only to surround yourself with "lesser" people only.

When people keep referring to things as a "band-aid" or temporary fix, I think 'so is eating.' Eating temporarily band-aids hunger. Yea, if I don't eat, I get hungry. If I don't do aikido, I begin to feel less disambiguated. If I don't remind myself of Heart Sutra, I get butterflies driving to aikido. If I don't keep my stress hormones in check, I stammer and feel panicky. If I don't sleep, I get tired. If I don't put on my winter coat, I will be cold outside.

A trendy thing happening in Chicago now is restaurant's having Salsa dancing clubs. I think that could be fun. It shares with aikido the practice of changing partners constantly and partnering with many strangers and trying to sync up with each other.
We call it ukemi (receiving the technique). It feels wonderful when your ukemi is right with the energy that is happening. Metaphorically, that helps maintain the coherency of me, the organism. We try to do the same thing; have pro-metabolic synced-up energy, i.e., no traffic-jams, no lingering, no gaps, not being attached to what happened a millisecond ago, not anticipating what is going to happen.

This is a good teacher trying to teach a kid how to do that: being only attached to the energy that is here in any given moment. He's keeping it simple by limiting it to the floor, one attack, one pin, but varying up other parameters according to what he thinks this student can tolerate.

I have a question for you. Can I take pregnenolone sublingually?

 

[amethyst]

It's curious because when I heard them for the first time, I seemed to be ready for it. I mean, I listened to them and I had this feeling of "That's it. Exactly! All my life thinking and... This is so easy.".

I believe in that too.
Even in the superficial meaning, it also makes sense (regarding learning some subject, for example).

They have already changed. Actually, they will continue changing.
But I changed a lot about myself. I mean, I used to be a guy who got drunk several times for fun, messing around and not real care about anything. Back then, when I tried to change myself forcefully, so to speak, it never happened.
All of a sudden those things I used to do seem so weird right now and I don't identify myself with them at all.
Now, I'm here trying to rearrange my life (perhaps forcefully...? I don't know. But I can't just be waiting till someone helps me like a crybaby. That's what I have been doing during 15 years. This was also a change, one could say)
However, changes are continuously happen... So I really don't know what comes next.

You know how to talk about this stuff. I wonder what have you been reading :p

Life has taught me many lessons

 

[Ukall]

On days I can't do an aikido class then the anxiety symptoms do come back.

You look like those people that need to run a mini marathon first thing in the morning, otherwise they feel stressed.
But if it helps a person, why not, right?

Also eating enough carbohydrate, whether from ripe sweet fruit or properly cooked starch, helped my brain fell satisfied. I had panic attacks when I was high fat vegan, high protein paleo, high fat Weston Price, and it wasn't until I found Peat that I realized how important carbohydrate was. I don't agree with Peat on every single little thing but I'm thankful for coming across his thoughts on carbohydrates when I did because everyone else was saying that all carbohydrate should be zero and insulin is the worst thing ever. They were so wrong. I got ganked by the crossfit, WAP Sally Fallon, paleo, low carb crowd of angry hucksters. I was so dumb. I should have just read a physiolgy textbook about glycogen and glucose and what ketosis really is, a hibernation like state for humans to survive a famine, not a state to live and be in for life.

These successful stories is what confuses me a lot.
Unlike most of people here. my first try on diets was doing a High Carb diet. All those symptoms you had on Low Carb, I started having them on High Carb. Never felt like this before.
I go Low Carb, they start disappearing...
But, now, since I've started this journey on a High Carb world, going to Low Carb is really hard for me. I was very convinced that High Carb would save my life, so to speak. And I believe most people who were doing Low Carb and start reading Ray Peat may have had the same feeling of being very confused and in a state of denial...

Do you exercise? You mention your shoulders are up to your ears when conversing. A strong yoga practice and pranayama will help with that. Looking at anxiety from a strictly materialist view may keep you anxious. Maybe your anxiety is not a pathology but a message from your body to be more introspective about yourself and what your fears are. You can spend a lot of time/money/health messing with supplements and hormones. I'd say try less invasive approaches first.

No, I don't exercise. I used to. I still had that bad posture back then... I always had a bad posture. In a party, my friends were always like "Can you be less tense, please?".

Yoga, meditation, breathing exercises always interested me a lot. I've already said this before. When I was calmer because I was taking supplements, doing those practices would make even more sense to me. They felt so smooth when I was doing them.
However, when I experimented a High Carb diet, believe me, I couldn't do them anymore. I couldn't breath because my breathing was all messy. I had shortness of breath, my heart was exploding. Hell no I could be interested on those activities.

This is to say, that I feel like if I find some peace regarding diets, one that makes me feel confident and safe about it, I can also start doing those practices (like I did before when I had peace with supplements).
I used to think like that too: first doing theses practices (mindfulness, meditation, yoga, etc) then life will be better.
But after this experience... I've changed completely the idea and started to see the other way around: first diet and then other practices.

But I have indeed tried less invasive approaches already:
- Psychologists
- Group Therapies
- Acupuncture
- Doing sports
- Meditation, Mindfulness, Spirituality, etc

This has been the first time I am experimenting diets. And I must say that it really freaks me out that eating certain foods can change how I am feeling very easily.

 

[Regina]

You look like those people that need to run a mini marathon first thing in the morning, otherwise they feel stressed.
But if it helps a person, why not, right?

Ukall,
Oh no. I'm not like that at all. It's not stress and it's not in the morning. It's the connection to other people that I like in aikido. It's about the connection, the energy and the harmonizing in a dynamic way with others.No need for words; just great deep connection.

 

[Ukall]

Oh no. I'm not like that at all. It's not stress and it's not in the morning. It's the connection to other people that I like in aikido. It's about the connection, the energy and the harmonizing in a dynamic way with others.No need for words; just great deep connection.

But I bet you know those people too :P
Never tried doing Aikido... Seems very interesting. I've only tried Tai Chi, but when I was doing it I felt like I wanted more action. I liked it though.

 

[Regina]

But I bet you know those people too :p
Never tried doing Aikido... Seems very interesting. I've only tried Tai Chi, but when I was doing it I felt like I wanted more action. I liked it though.

Yea, I know those people. I'm like the opposite. I'm kinda slothful.

 

[Social anxiety]

You guys ****88 my thread.

 

[Regina]

I have a question for you. Can I take pregnenolone sublingually?

With Haidut's drops, you can. Stressnon and/or Pansterone.

 

[Peater Piper]

There's a clear connection between physical health and mental well-being. I'm more confident and less anxious on the days I'm feeling a bit better. That said, I think if you've spent years (or the majority of your life) experiencing anxious thoughts, and then you've been reinforcing those thoughts by avoiding the behaviors that provoke them, it may take more than fixing your diet or adding supplements. The only thing that's really put a dent in my social anxiety is CBT and a lot of exposures. I tried it once when I was younger. A combination of a new therapist and a lack of motivation to really work at it sabotaged things, although I made improvements early on. Later in life I've stumbled upon a very good therapist, and have a lot of necessary motivation to improve. It's been a slow process, but I'm steadily improving. So yeah, not an exciting answer, not a quick fix, and definitely not fun, but coming from someone that's spent a significant amount of time housebound, feared even answering the phone or door, or picking up some groceries, it's the only really effective treatment I've found.

 

[bdawg]

You understood me wrong. I don't want to change who I am. I am not shy person. I have social anxiety. It is a real disorder.

"Social anxiety disorder"

It is NOT about personality.

Let's say you have low pregnenolone and social anxiety. What would you think when people say: "don't change yourself, accept who you are"?

Like I said, it is not me. It is a disorder. It's hormonal. But I understand you. Many of people who have lack of confidence think that they have social anxiety disorder. But they don't.

I don't have lack of confidence. I am not a shy person, too.

1oo%

Hey mate. I have the same issue as you. Don't blame the posters for misunderstanding the condition, as I also did at one point thinking that I was an introvert or was 'cowardly' when i later realised it was the furthest from the truth.

How extreme is your condition? I was a moderate in my late teens, now Id say im on the lower end.

I probably have similar neurochemistry to you as I am also a wanna-be socially dominant alpha male with a glutamate/GABA ratio that is way out of wack, making me timid as a mouse and ready to flight in most passive-aggressive modern world situations (its fucken maladaptive). I also love social activity and get depressed without it (like homo sapiens in general), so this is a cruel condition for me.

As @JCastro mentioned, the d2 transmission is probably also involved as we are not chasing our way out of it through dopa kicks. I suspect good dopa transmission would mitigate the effects of the social anxiety.

Let me tell you whats worked for me, I have tried so many things and have reached a point of improvement that I would say my baseline condition now is what the non-social anxiety people of this thread call anxiety. So I experience what social-anxiety negatives call their bad public speaking performance anxiety as my baseline public speaking performance. Which is manageable tbh, social anxiety can get retarded on the extreme end with people not even turning up to give the speech. I'm happy with my progress so far, but man would I like to get rid of this permanent condition.

Focus on DHT, it promotes GABA. Creatine, 11-keto-dht, heavy lifting, anything that increases test and 5-AR as they also increase allopreg and other GABA modulators. Butea superba worked for me, but no idea on how to cycle this. Make sure you avoid PUFA and other 5-AR inhibitors. I have no genetic issue with MPB so not sure if you want to reconsider this advice based on that.
Haiduts pansterone and androsterone are the best idealabs supps for this (DHEA can convert directly to DHT and androsterone hits the AR), though I havent measured benefits from this regime as of yet. Not sure if you want to raise progesterone as i've heard it antagonises DHT. Pregnenolone is what you want.

Focus on dopa to escape the clutches of the disease, high dopa will let you ignore the condition and create positive CBT style experiences that could lead to fear extinction. Let me know if you want me to elaborate. I use mucuna pruriens seed powder and caffiene, they are tried and tested for my biochemistry. Though the initial rush through mucuna and caffeine will eventually downregulate the receptors a little and you will never get that initial feeling back.

Focus on GABA itself. Taurine (large dose) and, due to haidut talking about theanine, I have started to use it (love it). Effects are subtle and build up, so that if you journal, you can see yourself improving slowly. Theanine is also a great cortisol fighter.

There are heaps of other substances out there to try, i think one of the racetams, gabaergic anticonvulsants and phenelzine, the gold standard which I know will work for us but not sure if I want the sides as it smashes a lot of other receptors too. Some selective GABA-T inhibitors are the solution, they need to be developed. But too much GABA is also not a great think (being drunk)

Could you please share with me whats worked for you?

There is still hope! we will figure this out or die trying!

 

[bdawg]

There's a clear connection between physical health and mental well-being. I'm more confident and less anxious on the days I'm feeling a bit better. That said, I think if you've spent years (or the majority of your life) experiencing anxious thoughts, and then you've been reinforcing those thoughts by avoiding the behaviors that provoke them, it may take more than fixing your diet or adding supplements. The only thing that's really put a dent in my social anxiety is CBT and a lot of exposures. I tried it once when I was younger. A combination of a new therapist and a lack of motivation to really work at it sabotaged things, although I made improvements early on. Later in life I've stumbled upon a very good therapist, and have a lot of necessary motivation to improve. It's been a slow process, but I'm steadily improving. So yeah, not an exciting answer, not a quick fix, and definitely not fun, but coming from someone that's spent a significant amount of time housebound, feared even answering the phone or door, or picking up some groceries, it's the only really effective treatment I've found.

+1, this is the only way. Though neurochemistry changes make CBT a whole lot easier

 

[Peaterpeater]

How old were you when you started taking DHEA

I was 35 then.

 

[sprinter]

let you ignore the condition and create positive CBT style experiences that could lead to fear extinction

I think things like Phenibut and Kratom can be useful for this reason. Phenibut allows one to experience what it is like to be anxiety free. I think these experiences could lead to behavioral changes. You have to be careful with Phenibiut though. Do alot of research first.

 

[Social anxiety]

1oo%

Hey mate. I have the same issue as you. Don't blame the posters for misunderstanding the condition, as I also did at one point thinking that I was an introvert or was 'cowardly' when i later realised it was the furthest from the truth.

How extreme is your condition? I was a moderate in my late teens, now Id say im on the lower end.

I probably have similar neurochemistry to you as I am also a wanna-be socially dominant alpha male with a glutamate/GABA ratio that is way out of wack, making me timid as a mouse and ready to flight in most passive-aggressive modern world situations (its fucken maladaptive). I also love social activity and get depressed without it (like homo sapiens in general), so this is a cruel condition for me.

As @JCastro mentioned, the d2 transmission is probably also involved as we are not chasing our way out of it through dopa kicks. I suspect good dopa transmission would mitigate the effects of the social anxiety.

Let me tell you whats worked for me, I have tried so many things and have reached a point of improvement that I would say my baseline condition now is what the non-social anxiety people of this thread call anxiety. So I experience what social-anxiety negatives call their bad public speaking performance anxiety as my baseline public speaking performance. Which is manageable tbh, social anxiety can get retarded on the extreme end with people not even turning up to give the speech. I'm happy with my progress so far, but man would I like to get rid of this permanent condition.

Focus on DHT, it promotes GABA. Creatine, 11-keto-dht, heavy lifting, anything that increases test and 5-AR as they also increase allopreg and other GABA modulators. Butea superba worked for me, but no idea on how to cycle this. Make sure you avoid PUFA and other 5-AR inhibitors. I have no genetic issue with MPB so not sure if you want to reconsider this advice based on that.
Haiduts pansterone and androsterone are the best idealabs supps for this (DHEA can convert directly to DHT and androsterone hits the AR), though I havent measured benefits from this regime as of yet. Not sure if you want to raise progesterone as i've heard it antagonises DHT. Pregnenolone is what you want.

Focus on dopa to escape the clutches of the disease, high dopa will let you ignore the condition and create positive CBT style experiences that could lead to fear extinction. Let me know if you want me to elaborate. I use mucuna pruriens seed powder and caffiene, they are tried and tested for my biochemistry. Though the initial rush through mucuna and caffeine will eventually downregulate the receptors a little and you will never get that initial feeling back.

Focus on GABA itself. Taurine (large dose) and, due to haidut talking about theanine, I have started to use it (love it). Effects are subtle and build up, so that if you journal, you can see yourself improving slowly. Theanine is also a great cortisol fighter.

There are heaps of other substances out there to try, i think one of the racetams, gabaergic anticonvulsants and phenelzine, the gold standard which I know will work for us but not sure if I want the sides as it smashes a lot of other receptors too. Some selective GABA-T inhibitors are the solution, they need to be developed. But too much GABA is also not a great think (being drunk)

Could you please share with me whats worked for you?

There is still hope! we will figure this out or die trying!

Nothing worked for me. Benzos only...

Zinc and energy drinks are good, too. Energy drinks have taurine.

Do you know what's the difference between taurine and l-taurine?

 

[Elchapchapchapo]

Some of the best things that have helped assist my social anxiety has really been by trying stuff on this forum.

I finally touched a state of wellbeing within myself which had been out of my life for I dont know how long. But there have been days where I finally finally touched feeling like an OG - a state I refer to with no anxiety and feeling myself 100%.

I personally have high estrogen and high prolactin. I also had thyroid issues which I believe contributed to the problem as well. I think the meat of the issues I experience are within the estrogen and prolactin.

Adding in calories was huge for me and I was definitely underrating before.

Magnesium has been a key player as well in creating a sense of calmness.

Creating quality sleep also another key player.

Don't give up mate...together we shall conquer this

 

[Social anxiety]

Some of the best things that have helped assist my social anxiety has really been by trying stuff on this forum.

I finally touched a state of wellbeing within myself which had been out of my life for I dont know how long. But there have been days where I finally finally touched feeling like an OG - a state I refer to with no anxiety and feeling myself 100%.

I personally have high estrogen and high prolactin. I also had thyroid issues which I believe contributed to the problem as well. I think the meat of the issues I experience are within the estrogen and prolactin.

Adding in calories was huge for me and I was definitely underrating before.

Magnesium has been a key player as well in creating a sense of calmness.

Creating quality sleep also another key player.

Don't give up mate...together we shall conquer this

Have you ever tried pregnenolone?

 

[Elchapchapchapo]

Yes, I have however I actually have mixed reactions with it. I need to just dial in with pregnenolone without DHEA as I have found DHEA to make me get cold hands and feet.

But I also recently had a DHEA-S test done and I was at 510 and the top of the range is 530. I think this is the reason for the cold hands/feet. I just need to figure out the ranges..

Pregnenolone alone can bring me feelings of warmth and wellbeing. I don't like messing with it anymore as my estrogen is so high.

I acutally just took nicianmide b-3 1000mg a while ago and that really worked wonders.

I am currently on an estrogen blocker for my high estrogen.

My estradiol was 41.8 with the top range being 42..

Have you done blood tests and all that? How does pregnenolone effect you, I noticed above you said you think / or were estrogen dominant. I wonder how close our blood tests are...?

 

[Social anxiety]

Yes, I have however I actually have mixed reactions with it. I need to just dial in with pregnenolone without DHEA as I have found DHEA to make me get cold hands and feet.

But I also recently had a DHEA-S test done and I was at 510 and the top of the range is 530. I think this is the reason for the cold hands/feet. I just need to figure out the ranges..

Pregnenolone alone can bring me feelings of warmth and wellbeing. I don't like messing with it anymore as my estrogen is so high.

I acutally just took nicianmide b-3 1000mg a while ago and that really worked wonders.

I am currently on an estrogen blocker for my high estrogen.

My estradiol was 41.8 with the top range being 42..

Have you done blood tests and all that? How does pregnenolone effect you, I noticed above you said you think / or were estrogen dominant. I wonder how close our blood tests are...?

My estradiol is 45. Not sensitive test.

 

[Elchapchapchapo]

Have you done prolactin - imagine it would be high as well...

Yeah I'm thinking that estrogen has a lot to play with social anexity

 

[Social anxiety]

Have you done prolactin - imagine it would be high as well...

Yeah I'm thinking that estrogen has a lot to play with social anexity

My prolactin is good. Not high.