So you've just eaten out an unhealthy meal with PUFA - what supplements to help counteract?

[AnonE]

As the thread title suggests - these things happen! Say you're catching up with some old friends or have an important business dinner and unfortunately (or even accidentally) end up eating some less-than-ideal foods that you suspect are high in PUFA.

What are some good regimens to help protect your body and recover afterwards?

I know vitamin E should be good for this, maybe I'd pop an extra 400IU after that greasy chinese food...

Anything else? I heard about CoQ10 for example, but I have no idea what it is or how helpful it would be.

Hopefully this thread can be helpful to people who slip up or have a cheat meal once in a while!

 

[youngsinatra]

As the thread title suggests - these things happen! Say you're catching up with some old friends or have an important business dinner and unfortunately (or even accidentally) end up eating some less-than-ideal foods that you suspect are high in PUFA.

What are some good regimens to help protect your body and recover afterwards?

I know vitamin E should be good for this, maybe I'd pop an extra 400IU after that greasy chinese food...

Anything else? I heard about CoQ10 for example, but I have no idea what it is or how helpful it would be.

Hopefully this thread can be helpful to people who slip up or have a cheat meal once in a while!

Don‘t stress about it too much. It is probably worse if you are all alone at home and being uber-careful about PUFAs all the time than if you are going out with friends, having fun and enjoying some nice food on a occasion.
Except if it really messes up your gut maybe, but if you are only concerned about PUFAs I think taking 400 IU of vitamin E is just fine.

 

[Ben.]

I agree, stressing over it might be the most problematic thing about it.

yeah vitamin e should help, yerrag posted something intersting which might be something to consider when choosing a vitamin e brand.

This is good reading I picked up from an RPF thread on Vitamin E from the early years of RPF (there sure are a lot of golden nuggets from that time, if you guys do a good search instead of posting questions that have been asked before, as you'll find many good answers that you won't find nowadays):

https://web.archive.org/web/20140222054542/https://enerex.ca/en/articles/new-old-findings-on-unique-vitamin-e

Tells you what you need to know about the original Vitamin E that worked very well, and the synthetic ones, and how "science" was used against mixed tocopherols necessitating the production of inferior esterified vitamin E such as the acetate and succinate forms. And how Hoffman LaRoche used its influence to establish the synthetic dl-alpha tocopheral as the standard.

Reading this makes my stomach churn, knowing that the fix was in already long ago to destroy our health by using "science" and propaganda to direct us into using inferior grades of vitamin E.

I don't know about you, but I don't believe any of the studies regarding how good the acetates and succinates are. Just garbage.

Probably having some saturated fat and fruit alongside the pufa might mitigate potential issues?

Ray Peat said:

° "Saturated fats activate the pyruvate dehydrogenase enzyme that is essential for the efficient use of glucose, while PUFA block it." [1, 1.5]

° "In the 1940s, Bernardo Houssay found that coconut oil protected animals from poison-induced diabetes, while a lard-based diet failed to protect them. Later, glucose itself was found to protect the pancreatic beta-cells from poisons." [2, 3, 4]

We eat sucrose, part of which is broken down to glucose, which is converted to pyruvate in the glycolysis metabolic pathway. The pyruvate is, then, converted into Acetyl-CoA, which then delivers its acetyl group to the citric acid cycle (Krebs cycle) to be oxidized for energy production, producing CO2, ATP, water, and heat. But B-oxidation of fats is also a source of substrate for the pyruvate production.

"Cancer researchers have become interested in this enzyme system that controls the oxidation of pyruvic acid (and thus sugar) by the mitochondria, since these enzymes are crucially defective in cancer cells (and also in diabetes). The chemical DCA, dichloroacetate, is effective against a variety of cancers, and it acts by reactivating the enzymes that oxidize pyruvic acid." [5]

Ahhh yes, thanks for the link. This graph (below) is one I've posted on the forum before. As you can see, Mead acid is still being made at 2% of calories. For a 2,000 calorie diet that would be a little over 4g of fat. Production seems to increase significantly at 0.5% of diet, which is slightly over 1g for 2,000 calorie diet. Keep in mind that that study was using LA which as I mentioned is more powerful than n-3 at preventing EFAD and yet most people (at least on the forum) consume a good portion of their total PUFA as n-3. In fact, mine is sometimes equal to n-6 if I consume shellfish that day. So I may get 1g of n-6 and 1g of n-3. Mead acid production would be present on that amount and if done consistently someone would probably be considered "essential fatty acid deficient" if they had their ratio checked.

There may be many other factors potentially as well to consider. If a lot of the PUFA is consumed as fruit it's possible not all of it is absorbed. Fibre can push fat along. Vitamin E in the diet may also alter the amount slightly (assuming). Keeping FFA low could also increase production (again, assumption)

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[Stilgar]

Personally, I don’t notice much from a little extra pufa on occasions where I can’t avoid it, albeit I try to choose the a likely meal choice that isn’t excessively high (eg not the deep fried things). I agree that the socialising is good and it’s your regular routine that matters more.

I more have issues from digestion if I eat something I normally avoid. I’ve had to eat something like a full pizza on occasion and it gives me crazy insomnia. My sleep gets affected the most. Usually I take a big dose of cascara, aspirin and maybe penicillin to ease the side effects.

 

[ecstatichamster]

Aspirin, vitamin e and a little coconut oil. Mitolipin if you have it.

 

[Source Code]

If I have to eat something out I usually have a 500mg aspirin a tea spoon of coconut oil and some niacinamide... I was pretty worried there when I first read how bad pufas actually are and they are pretty much unavoidable if you eat out... I'm the fittest and healthiest I've ever been now thanks to rays work and all the clever people on this forum. ?

 

[boris]

Don‘t stress about it too much. It is probably worse if you are all alone at home and being uber-careful about PUFAs all the time than if you are going out with friends, having fun and enjoying some nice food on a occasion.

I agree, stressing over it might be the most problematic thing about it.

I always feel worse aftwerwards when I budge and dismiss my own instinct. If there are safe options available in the place we're eating, I get that, or make modifications if they accept them. If not, I just drink a cappucino or coca cola .

 

[Ben.]

I always feel worse aftwerwards when I budge and dismiss my own instinct. If there are safe options available in the place we're eating, I get that, or make modifications if they accept them. If not, I just drink a cappucino or coca cola .

Ofcourse if there is a "friendlier" option that you'd enjoy, go for it ofcourse!

 

[fr@]

Oh, I'm actually doing this quite a lot lately... hahaha.

What I take:

- Berberine, 30 minutes before a Super Glycemic meal (or even just a 1 food item; like a whole cake)
- Pancreatin Blend, 1/2 dose ('cause I get ulcerative symptoms on 500mg) that's around 15 minutes before that grand junk food eating *I use this for mukang stuff
- Protease Blend w/ DPPIV, (in hopes to obliterate the Gluteny particles) I take it once I take a bite or about to *I think taking it too soon won't attack you're eating (lol)
- Policosanol, 'cause they say it displaces PUFAs (to which I don't know how it exactly works) *but it take this regularly regardless if it's a junk food or not
- Vitamin-E, I've been taking the High Gamma-Tocopherol version *'cause it's the Gammas that scrubbs-off the PUFAs while the Alphas PUFAs not oxidize?
- Allithiamine, I just microdose it through out the day but I start this with a meal, I basically put the powder under my tongue (tastes really bad though)
- Niacinamide, I do the same with Allithiamine, I microdose it through out the day *I do it this way to avoid headaches
- Taurine, in hopes of countering Tryptophan *I also take this regardless if it's a junk food or not
- CDG, I only take this once or twice a week to avoid the swelling of Thyroid, but I'll most likely take it soon when I eat junk food
- Olive Leaf Extract, I take this mostly on my end of day meal, helps with my Blood Pressure *I swapped this from Cacao, 'cause Cacao gives me Liver Inflammation
- Aspirin, of course
- K2, for using Aspirin
- D3, so I could be more witty in social interactions
- Serrapeptase/Nattokinase/Protease, I do a DIY ratio and put in an Enteric Capsule *I take this the next day after waking up, but I also take this most day regardless

In regards to why I take a Protease Blend rather than a Full Spectrum Blend, it's because form my experience I get bloating from using a Full Spectrum.
Probably I'm reacting to some of the Bacteria in the Full Spectrum Blend rather than just the Protease Blend.

As with other stuff that works (from the way it was described to me) is this ZBiotics thing, to me it doesn't work, I just get bloated.
But it's basically used to counteract the hangover or intoxication from drinking alcohol (not my thing though).

So far, I'm okay with my approach -- but I'd also want to learn more from others experiences :)

 

[AnonE]

^ wow nice lots of stuff. I'm re-designing my supplement protocol and have a fair few similarities. Quick question, is it hard to digest all those supplements throughout the day? I'm trying to cover all my bases (fat solubles, some AAs, B vits, a few minerals, etc) but find that it's so many damn pills. At least I have to split it up throughout the day, all within the span of 1 meal seems like too much gel caps lol.

 

[FocusedOnHealth]

If I have to eat something out I usually have a 500mg aspirin a tea spoon of coconut oil and some niacinamide... I was pretty worried there when I first read how bad pufas actually are and they are pretty much unavoidable if you eat out... I'm the fittest and healthiest I've ever been now thanks to rays work and all the clever people on this forum. ?

How does aspirin counteract the pufa? I know it’s good for lowering cortisol.

 

[youngsinatra]

How does aspirin counteract the pufa? I know it’s good for lowering cortisol.

It lowers free fatty acids and subsequently the amount of PUFAs in the blood stream, thus preventing some of the damaging effects of PUFAs on energy production and so on.
Niacinamide would work in the same direction.

 

[FocusedOnHealth]

It lowers free fatty acids and subsequently the amount of PUFAs in the blood stream, thus preventing some of the damaging effects of PUFAs on energy production and so on.
Niacinamide would work in the same direction.

Thanks!

 

[AnonE]

It lowers free fatty acids and subsequently the amount of PUFAs in the blood stream, thus preventing some of the damaging effects of PUFAs on energy production and so on.
Niacinamide would work in the same direction.

I have a question, how does it lower PUFA in the blood stream? Does this mean it shuttles it into the cells? Then this would create a problem to be dealt with later on. Wondering how it relates to people having trouble when they lose weight, particularly burn fat, because they end up releasing their PUFA stores. Or maybe I'm understanding this wrong.

 

[fr@]

^ wow nice lots of stuff. I'm re-designing my supplement protocol and have a fair few similarities. Quick question, is it hard to digest all those supplements throughout the day? I'm trying to cover all my bases (fat solubles, some AAs, B vits, a few minerals, etc) but find that it's so many damn pills. At least I have to split it up throughout the day, all within the span of 1 meal seems like too much gel caps lol.

I wouldn't say that it's hard to digest those supplements, I'd say it's tedious to prepare; 'cause I have to make sure that what I'm taking is actually what it is.

But if you want to cover you bases, I'll just consume:

- Beef Liver/Heart
- Eggs
- Potatoes *you can skip potatoes if you can put most of your budget in non-starchy carbs
- Citrus Fruits
- Milk
- Taurine
- K2
- Magnesium
- Vitamin-E

I'm lacking on the Glycine part though, since I can't find time to cook a large batch of Beef Bones then put the Gelatin in a chest freezer.
So far supplementing Gelatin & Glycine doesn't work for me, as w/ Gelatin I get digestive issues (like things just get glued-up on my insides).
And for Glycine, I'm only getting irritability and some familiar pain symptoms that you could associate w/ Fibromyalgia.
Though I could try a Real Collagen supplement, but it's way too out of my budget.

 

[dabdabdab]

Aspirin, vitamin e and a little coconut oil. Mitolipin if you have it.

its hard to find a mitolipin that doesn't contain pufa

 

[fr@]

Serrapeptase/Nattokinase/Protease, I do a DIY ratio and put in an Enteric Capsule

I forgot to mention that I also add-in Bromelain to this.

 

[golder]

its hard to find a mitolipin that doesn't contain pufa

What does this mean? Mitolopin is one of Georgis products made in tocopherol.

 

[Velve921]

Coffee + aspirin. Any time I have a restaurant meal I always have coffee with it.

 

[dabdabdab]

What does this mean? Mitolopin is one of Georgis products made in tocopherol.

oh sorry, I mistook it with cardiolipin