So What's The Scoop On Oxalates

[CDT]

Bart Kay, a youtuber who provides nutritional advice, and an advocate of the carnivore diet, has had some interesting content regarding oxalates in plant foods. What do you all think about these compounds and can they be detrimental to human health in general, or are there measures that one can take to reduce said deleterious effects.

 

[mujuro]

Most of the arguments I’ve heard revolve around oxalates and “anti-nutrients”, as if the foods you eat have to be 100% nutritional with zero drawbacks, as if such a food even exists. The quinones and folate seem like a decent trade for some phytic acid and whatever else. Then there’s the kidney stones young vegans are reportedly getting after living on green smoothies year round. Not surprising. It’s ironic, too. If these people actually chewed on their food like nature — the thing they love so much — intended them to, they might find that they can’t ingest even half the amount they manage to blend into a puree and chug on.

 

[CDT]

Most of the arguments I’ve heard revolve around oxalates and “anti-nutrients”, as if the foods you eat have to be 100% nutritional with zero drawbacks, as if such a food even exists. The quinones and folate seem like a decent trade for some phytic acid and whatever else. Then there’s the kidney stones young vegans are reportedly getting after living on green smoothies year round. Not surprising. It’s ironic, too. If these people actually chewed on their food like nature — the thing they love so much — intended them to, they might find that they can’t ingest even half the amount they manage to blend into a puree and chug on.

Thanks for your response! So do you think that we should be concerned about oxalates (particularly the ones that pass into the bloodstream)

 

[tca300]

Oxalate induces breast cancer

Oxalate content of foods and its effect on humans. - PubMed - NCBI

Strategies for preventing calcium oxalate stones

I also think it can exacerbate an already sensative//damaged gut

 

[biffbelvin]

Thanks for your response! So do you think that we should be concerned about oxalates (particularly the ones that pass into the bloodstream)

I wouldn't worry about it. as Majuro said, if you're actually chewing your food (which is generally a good idea), you're not going to consume the same level of vegetables as these people are.

I personally avoid spinach because it's such an outlier. If spinach hasn't been boiled to death, it gives my teeth a really uncomfortable sensation/texture. I'm not sure if this is the high levels of oxalate or something completely different.

 

[Birdie]

Oxalate induces breast cancer

Oxalate content of foods and its effect on humans. - PubMed - NCBI

Strategies for preventing calcium oxalate stones

I also think it can exacerbate an already sensative//damaged gut

Thank you. I read the last one. Good reminder on the high oxalate foods.
Encouragement there to vary the diet and not get hung up on overdoing chocolate or whatever is high oxalate.
About half the stuff on that list I can't eat for other reasons, so good for me.

 

[aussiebaldguy]

Apparently they can build up...over time...going on a low oxalate diet they will start to come out and if you have a lot you can get some crazy symptoms.

 

[thomas00]

Recent internet news indicated the conviction of an oncologist who attempted to kill her boyfriend who was involved with another woman. The weapon of choice was ethylene glycol, popularly known as antifreeze, which had been placed in his coffee just after coitus. Although emergency measures saved the boyfriend's life, extensive deposits of oxalate crystals, the main toxic metabolite of ethylene glycol, had caused extensive kidney and liver damage, reducing the man's lifespan by about half.

Similar results in sabotaging your own health can occur through the regular consumption of a popular concoction called a "green smoothie". A recent Google search for "green smoothie" yielded 609,000 hits. In addition, a recent "improving your diet" seminar I attended promoted this same idea. Interestingly, on the same day, I reviewed test results of a urine organic acid test of a woman with oxalate values three times the upper limit of normal. A conversation with the patient indicated that she had recently turned to consuming daily "green smoothies" to "clean up her diet". The most common "green" components of the most popular green smoothies are spinach, kale, Swiss chard, and arugula. Each of these greens is loaded with oxalates. A typical internet recipe advises that two cups of packed raw spinach leaves is a good starting point for a good smoothie. In addition to the high oxalate greens added to the blender, green smoothie proponents frequently recommend adding a variety of berries or almonds, also containing high oxalate amounts. Similar high urine oxalate results were found in organic acid tests of a number of patients with kidney stones who had decided to eat large spinach salads daily as a "move to clean up my unhealthy diet". Unfortunately kidney stones are not the only health problems that people who regularly consume green smoothies and large spinach salads will experience with their new "clean" diet.

Seventy-five years ago, a food scientist of the Campbell Soup Company (1) reported: "Only a few foods, notably spinach, Swiss Chard, New Zealand spinach, beet tops, lamb's quarter, poke, purslane, and rhubarb have high oxalate content. In them, expressed as anhydrous oxalic acid, it is often considerably over 10% on a dry basis. In fifty-three samples, including practically all commercial and many experimental varieties grown in California and in Maryland as well as those shipped from Texas, Florida and Carolina, the average anhydrous oxalic acid content was 9.02% on the dry basis (maximum 12.6, minimum 4.5). Whereas spinach greatly increases the calcium content of the low calcium but well performing basal diet, it decidedly interferes with both growth and bone formation. If to a diet of meat, peas, carrots and sweet potatoes, relatively low in calcium but permitting good though not maximum growth and bone formation, spinach is added to the extent of about 8% to supply 60% of the calcium, a high percentage of deaths occurs among rats fed between the age of 21 and 90 days. Reproduction is impossible. The bones are extremely low in calcium, tooth structure is disorganized and dentine poorly calcified. Spinach not only supplies no available calcium but renders unavailable a considerable amount of the calcium in the other foods. Considerable amounts of the oxalate appear in the urine, much more in the feces."

https://www.greatplainslaboratory.com/articles-1/2015/11/13/the-green-smoothie-health-fad-this-road-to-health-hell-is-paved-with-toxic-oxalate-crystals

 

[JudiBlueHen]

I had a kidney stone a couple of months ago. You DO NOT want to have a kidney stone! It is unlike other back pain in which you can change positions to moderate the pain. There is no position of comfort and I could not sleep. Went to the Urgent Care the next day (a weekend of course), and when they asked me where the pain was (left side of my back between upper ribs and hip), they did a urine test. Blood in urine. Small stone(s) passed within 24 hours and pain stopped. Now I am paying a lot more attention to reducing overall oxalate in my diet, but I have not tried an actual low oxalate diet yet.

 

[Xisca]

I wouldn't worry about it. as Majuro said, if you're actually chewing your food (which is generally a good idea), you're not going to consume the same level of vegetables as these people are.

Sorry but there is already too much oxalate in ONE leaf of spinach. And in the same familly you have quinoa and buckwheat, high oxalate too...

Apparently they can build up...over time...going on a low oxalate diet they will start to come out and if you have a lot you can get some crazy symptoms.

Very accurate comment! Lowering oxalate must be slow.

The most common "green" components of the most popular green smoothies are spinach, kale, Swiss chard, and arugula. Each of these greens is loaded with oxalates. A typical internet recipe advises that two cups of packed raw spinach leaves is a good starting point for a good smoothie.

Unfortunately kidney stones are not the only health problems that people who regularly consume green smoothies and large spinach salads will experience with their new "clean" diet.

Seventy-five years ago, a food scientist of the Campbell Soup Company (1) reported: "Only a few foods, notably spinach, Swiss Chard, New Zealand spinach, beet tops, lamb's quarter, poke, purslane, and rhubarb have high oxalate content."

https://www.greatplainslaboratory.com

This lab tests it in its OAT.
You can ask for a special test to your local lab though, ask for the 24h urine test of oxalate.
A heavy bladder with need to pee often and at night is a sign, up to false cystitis or candida, and burning / itching eyes. also white tartar inside the lower insisive is typical.

Take the try low oxalate group list of food!
More accurate!
The cruciferous familly is safe, and arugula is low oxalate, not high!
The last list is quite accurate but list the worse only, and did not know about buckwheat and quinoa... Also, spices are super high like turmeric and cinnamon. Don't eat cloves, but the broth is ok, just remove them.
Coffee is ok!

 

[TobyBjorn]

Sorry but there is already too much oxalate in ONE leaf of spinach. And in the same familly you have quinoa and buckwheat, high oxalate too...


Very accurate comment! Lowering oxalate must be slow.



This lab tests it in its OAT.
You can ask for a special test to your local lab though, ask for the 24h urine test of oxalate.
A heavy bladder with need to pee often and at night is a sign, up to false cystitis or candida, and burning / itching eyes. also white tartar inside the lower insisive is typical.

Take the try low oxalate group list of food!
More accurate!
The cruciferous familly is safe, and arugula is low oxalate, not high!
The last list is quite accurate but list the worse only, and did not know about buckwheat and quinoa... Also, spices are super high like turmeric and cinnamon. Don't eat cloves, but the broth is ok, just remove them.
Coffee is ok!

I have heard a these suggested, but I have not been able to find any supporting research. Can you point me in the right direction to find some?

 

[Xisca]

Trying Low Oxalates (TLO)

Suzan Owen is a researcher and made this group. But it is not funded so it goes slow. Even 10% of people having one day a stone is not enough? That should be funded with public money!

They publish what there is though... and have the best list of testings. Measures vary because they have not researched either what in the growth of a plant makes it form more oxalate or less...
There is only one sure thing they found out: avocados have more oxalate when unripe.

I suggested, but they never even had the idea to test a young carrrot and an old one from the same field!

Some people sponsor testiing for 60$ each, but they often send their favorite processed food for testing! Instead of testing only single ingredients!