So Let's Talk APOE

[omnivoracious]

I recently had 23 and Me analyze my genes. The only thing that came back was that my genetic makeup indicated I had a slightly elevated risk for late onset of alzheimer's disease. No real in depth explanation of how they came up with that potenital risk factor. So I followed Chris Masterjohn's advice and I had StrateGene look at my 23 and Me raw data. It turns out I am APOE 3/4.

Doing some research I dodged the APOE 4/4 bullet which seems to greatly increase the risk of developing alzheimer's but I still have a slightly elevated risk. This has brought me to the point where I am starting to research APOE diet guidance. The "guru" in this area appears to be Dr. Steven Gundry. He seems to have an impressive track record and has spoken quite a bit on APOE. My first intro was this talk at one of the recent ancestral health seminars. Here is the video:


I guess my biggest question/concern is the amount of olive oil he is suggesting be consumed. 1 liter per week sounds staggering. Has anyone here been diagnosed with either APOE 3/4 or 4/4 and started following his protocol? If so I'd be really interested in your experience. Has anyone used a Peat style diet to deal with APOE 3/4 or 4/4?

I'm a big believer in being able to manage this so I'd greatly appreciate what anyone here has learned with regard to this particular genetic predisposition.

 

[Nathan777]

I recently discovered I'm 3/4 too. I'd looked at some of Gundry's stuff as well as Bresden, but I'm not about to use a majority of my calories in life chugging olive oil, that just seems insane and unenjoyable. It does explain why I've always struggled with LDL and sdLDL levels, even in the context of a very "clean," albeit saturated fat heavy diet, so I have gone a little non-Peat and replaced most overt saturated fat (cheese, ghee, butter, coconut oil, red muscle meat, etc.) with other sources (olive oil, little bit of avocado, seafood, and raw nuts). I believe Rhonda Patrick is a 3/4 too so I've been looking more into her work and diet, which tends to focus extremely heavily on micronutrients - fruits, veggies, sprouts, little bit of meat. I've gone a lot more plant-based, which no idea how that'll be in the long run, and definitely not Peat, but I'm feeling better I think, and meals are enjoyable again. I mean for 3/4 we're talking what, like a 2-3x increased risk? But that risk is looking at your average unhealthy, sedentary, processed vegetable oil-consuming American, so I'm not too concerned, it just motivates me to live a good life and avoid the obvious bad dietary and lifestyle factors, and never ever get a head injury. You can check out apoe4.info, but they tend to be more keto, which isn't something I'm desiring to do longterm until more research comes out: Bredesen Protocol - ApoE4.Info Wiki

 

[Robyn Louise]

I recently discovered I'm 3/4 too. I'd looked at some of Gundry's stuff as well as Bresden, but I'm not about to use a majority of my calories in life chugging olive oil, that just seems insane and unenjoyable. It does explain why I've always struggled with LDL and sdLDL levels, even in the context of a very "clean," albeit saturated fat heavy diet, so I have gone a little non-Peat and replaced most overt saturated fat (cheese, ghee, butter, coconut oil, red muscle meat, etc.) with other sources (olive oil, little bit of avocado, seafood, and raw nuts). I believe Rhonda Patrick is a 3/4 too so I've been looking more into her work and diet, which tends to focus extremely heavily on micronutrients - fruits, veggies, sprouts, little bit of meat. I've gone a lot more plant-based, which no idea how that'll be in the long run, and definitely not Peat, but I'm feeling better I think, and meals are enjoyable again. I mean for 3/4 we're talking what, like a 2-3x increased risk? But that risk is looking at your average unhealthy, sedentary, processed vegetable oil-consuming American, so I'm not too concerned, it just motivates me to live a good life and avoid the obvious bad dietary and lifestyle factors, and never ever get a head injury. You can check out apoe4.info, but they tend to be more keto, which isn't something I'm desiring to do longterm until more research comes out: Bredesen Protocol - ApoE4.Info Wiki

Hi I have just watched the video above and am now really confused I am APOe 2/4 and have been following the Peat type diet for about 3 months and although I have put on weight now have heaps more energy. Has anyone come across what might be the right thing to do with 2/4 as far as dairy etc are concerned? Thanks

 

[Robyn Louise]

I recently had 23 and Me analyze my genes. The only thing that came back was that my genetic makeup indicated I had a slightly elevated risk for late onset of alzheimer's disease. No real in depth explanation of how they came up with that potenital risk factor. So I followed Chris Masterjohn's advice and I had StrateGene look at my 23 and Me raw data. It turns out I am APOE 3/4.

Doing some research I dodged the APOE 4/4 bullet which seems to greatly increase the risk of developing alzheimer's but I still have a slightly elevated risk. This has brought me to the point where I am starting to research APOE diet guidance. The "guru" in this area appears to be Dr. Steven Gundry. He seems to have an impressive track record and has spoken quite a bit on APOE. My first intro was this talk at one of the recent ancestral health seminars. Here is the video:


I guess my biggest question/concern is the amount of olive oil he is suggesting be consumed. 1 liter per week sounds staggering. Has anyone here been diagnosed with either APOE 3/4 or 4/4 and started following his protocol? If so I'd be really interested in your experience. Has anyone used a Peat style diet to deal with APOE 3/4 or 4/4?

I'm a big believer in being able to manage this so I'd greatly appreciate what anyone here has learned with regard to this particular genetic predisposition.

Hi In your studies was there any mention of how people with the 2/4 gene need to eat as weare just 2% of the population . I am currently following a Peat type diet now it seems its worng with all its sugar fructose dairy etc. Oh what to do!!

 

[David PS]

I am an APOE 3/4. I have found APOE4. info Home to be a good resource.

 

[omnivoracious]

Hi In your studies was there any mention of how people with the 2/4 gene need to eat as weare just 2% of the population . I am currently following a Peat type diet now it seems its worng with all its sugar fructose dairy etc. Oh what to do!!

I am not sure but I think 2/4 has much less risk for CVD and Alzheimer's. Don't take my word for it, but based on my very limited research the main concern seems to be with 4/4 and to a lesser extent 3/4. I also did the Found My Fitness genetic deep dive and found out I'm not likely to have a high HDL count or high levels of serum Vitamin D. That's good to know as I was wasting money taking a Vitamin D supplement for a couple years. For 4.5 years my serum Vitamin D levels have not budged despite taking high doses of Vitamin D.

I've been following the Gundry protocol fairly closely with the main adoption being a spinach salad every day with olives, mushrooms, avocado and liberal amounts of olive oil poured over the salad. I'm not quite at a liter per week but not far off. The one modification I've made to it so far is to add in some garbanzo beans to the salad and some pinto beans refried with my breakfast egg white omelette. Beans are a no-no with Gundry unless they have been pressure cooked which helps kill off the lectins. The Eden brand soaks and pressure cooks them and they seem to be OK for me.

Overall my C-Reactive Protein, Histamine and Fibrinogen are all very low. Omega 3 levels are very high and Omega 6s are fine. The thing I am focusing on right now is keeping Apo B in line. It's moderately high but hasn't gone up in 4.5 years. Like Nathan I am getting a very large percentage of my calories from monounsaturated fat. Lots of EVOO, avocado and macadamia nuts.

I'm planning to do the Valter Luongo 5 day fasting mimicking diet next month and will see how that impacts Apo B.

 

[omnivoracious]

Interesting update on the fast mimicking diet and increased extra virgin olive oil/monounsaturated fat consumption: I've improved my serum vitamin d levels by 50% over the past year. I am not sure what exactly to attribute this massive improvement to as I have completely given up on vitamin d supplements. I've read caffeine can impede vitamin absorption and I have definitely cut back on caffeine consumption. During the 5 day FMD I didn't drink an ounce of caffeine. I also wonder if going with such a fat heavy diet has improved absorption. I know many vitamins are fat soluble. With lots of olive oil, olives, avocado, sardines, salmon, and macadamia nuts I should be fully optimizing any vitamins that require fat in order to be absorbed.

I cut out spinach due to oxalate content and am now eating romaine lettuce in my salads. Still eating some pinto beans but would greatly prefer to get off beans. I just need to figure out the best carb/protein source to use in place of beans.

 

[omnivoracious]

Also TSH has gone down by 29% from 4.3 to 3.04. So that's a pretty big move in the right direction. Still waiting on cholesterol readings but there's a lot of indicators to suggest the Gundry protocol works out pretty well if you are APOE 3/4.

 

[Liam311]

An interesting take on intestinal absorption of vitamin D:
Animal Pharm: Apo ε4: Less UV-Triggered Vitamin D Required... Evolutionary Adaptation

 

[omnivoracious]

An interesting take on intestinal absorption of vitamin D:
Animal Pharm: Apo ε4: Less UV-Triggered Vitamin D Required... Evolutionary Adaptation

Thanks, really interesting find! A few copy+paste and comments.

"...there is a conspicuous south-to-north gradient of APOE*4 frequencies in Europe, with the proportion of APOE*4 carriers rising from only 10-15% in the south to 40-50% in the north."

This is certainly true for my ancestry as my family comes from Sweden and England.

"From Gerdes' thesis, I restated, see the below. Lard, other pastured animal fats, foraged grub, and organ meats contain substantial, rich sources of fat soluble vitamins including vitamin D. For the ancestral hunter-scavenger-forager 200,000 years ago, these fatty sources of vitamin D, K and A may have been crucial and critical for growth, maintenance and reproduction."

This is interesting as I have increased salmon and sardine consumption but those are likely my only significant source of vitamin d. I also used to take 5000 IU of vitamin d and it did absolutely nothing for my serum vitamin d levels so I am a bit skeptical on the gut absorption angle. I do think the big increase in monounsaturated fat content has played a major role in the improvement in my serum vitamin d levels. This study indicates monounsaturated fat increases serum vitamin d levels while polyunsaturated fat likely reduces absorption of vitamin d.

 

[omnivoracious]

Got my cholesterol readings back. LDL-P has decreased 12% which is good but still needs some work. Increased HDL by 23% which my doctor thinks is due to getting in some regular 30 minute runs. My HDL has typically been below the standard range so this is a good sign that I'm well above the low end of the standard range. I'm guessing I'm getting too much fat and that may explain why the LDL-P and trigs are higher than they should be. Trigs are currently 151 so just above the standard threshold. So I'm going to cut out salmon and sardines and see if I can get the LDL-P under control. This is my only real concern at this point. Blood glucose reading was 88 so no real concerns there.

I'm also going to follow some of what Chris Masterjohn recommends in his latest podcast as far as diversifying my carb sources. I want to stick with carbs that contain fiber given my APOE status so I'll mix in some oats, organic white jasmine rice, beans, berries, and sweet potatoes.

 

[Motif]

Updates? @Nathan777