Smoking Vs Nicotine. Is Either One A Good Solution? / Carbon Monoxide

[Travis]

The Potential Effect of Caffeine and Nicotine Co-administration against Aluminum-induced Alzheimer’s disease in Rats

Alzheimer’s disease (AD) is a progressive neurodegenerative disease characterized clinically by cognitive decline and memory loss. Caffeine and nicotine are the most commonly co-used psycho stimulants. Caffeine is one of the major contributors to the dietary antioxidants which prevent oxidative damage and may reduce the risk of chronic neurodegenerative diseases. Nicotine has the ability to decrease level of reactive oxygen species (ROS) in the hippocampus and suggested to attenuate the impairment of memory associated with AD. The study aimed to evaluate the influence of caffeine and nicotine co-administration against aluminium-induced neurotoxicity that mimics AD in rats. Five groups of rats were used and received daily for five weeks: Saline for control, aluminium chloride (AlCl₃) (70 mg/kg, IP) for AD mimic group, while treated groups received together with AlCl₃ , either Caffeine (5mg/kg, IP), Nicotine (1 mg/kg, SC) or their combination. Three behavioral experiments were performed: Forced Swimming Test (FST), Morris Water Maze (MWM) task and Conditioned-Avoidance and Learning (CAL) test. Histo pathological changes in the brain and biochemical changes in Acetyl cholinesterase (AchE) as well as oxidative parameters; malon dialdehyde (MDA), superoxide dismutase (SOD), total anti oxidane capacity (TAC) were also evaluated for all groups. Results of the behavioral tests showed that caffeine and nicotine co-administration had more pronounced protecting effect from learning and memory impairment induced by AlCl₃ than each one alone. Caffeine and nicotine co-administration also prevent neuronal degeneration in the hippocampus and the eosinophilic plagues in the striatum induced by AlCl₃ while nicotine alone still showed mild gliosis in striatum. The marked protection of caffeine and nicotine co-administration confirmed also by the significant increase in TAC and SOD and decrease in MDA and AchE in brain tissue. In conclusion, co-administration of caffeine and nicotine can reduce the risk of neuronal degeneration in the hippocampus and attenuate the impairment of learning and memory associated with AD.

In the light of what was mentioned, it is clear that co-administration of caffeine and nicotine to rats...

...during exposure to AlCl₃ neurotoxicity (a rat model that suggested to mimic human AD) shows more pronounced improving effect on learning and memory abilities, marked decrease in AchE activity as well as oxidative stress and can also protect against neuronal degeneration in the hippocampus than each one alone. Finally, it could be concluded that co-treatment with caffeine and nicotine has more pronounced protecting effect than each drug alone during induction of AD in rats.

I'm co-treating myself with caffeine and nicotine right now.

For all you non-smokers, this experiment implies that I would beat you in a Morris water maze task.

 

[Filip1993]

The benefits seem to just be listed in bullet points, but the comment section that follows presents citations for many of the bad effects. Namely CO and NO. I've also read about the mitochondrial uncoupling.



Care to share these benefits? Smoking 2-3 cigarettes a day, for me, seems to boost cognitive function a bit, but with an almost hive-minded effect often in addition. I realize this may be stabilized further along the duration of a smoking habit. Lastly, and perhaps most vexing, is the heightened level of mucous that is formed, and the accompanying congestion. I might not have noticed this effect as markedly had I not been into yoga, in which a clean, clear, uninterrupted breath through the nose is essential. After smoking for a few days, this mucous blockage begins to occur and subsides only a few days after cessation.

Of course, I would easily endure these bad effects, should the benefits be proven or agreed upon here.

I know you didn't ask me about the benefits, but I will share. It's the only thing that helps my anxiety/panic attacks which I've had since I went true some traumatic events in my life. It also helps with mood and my studies. I see it as a temporary supplement and hopefully I don't need it forever. This is just from personal experience and I'm not saying everyone should start smoking, it just helps me a lot right now. Cigarettes also keeps me regular.

Edit: I smoke maybe 5-8 cigarettes.

 

[opethfeldt]

I know you didn't ask me about the benefits, but I will share. It's the only thing that helps my anxiety/panic attacks which I've had since I went true some traumatic events in my life. It also helps with mood and my studies. I see it as a temporary supplement and hopefully I don't need it forever. This is just from personal experience and I'm not saying everyone should start smoking, it just helps me a lot right now. Cigarettes also keeps me regular.

Edit: I smoke maybe 5-8 cigarettes.

I have PTSD and cigarettes really help me. I just started smoking about a week and a half ago just to see. It made a huge difference. I believe the fact cigarettes raise dopamine so effectively makes them excellent for treating PTSD, which, as we all know, is characterized by increased serotonin and cortisol. Cigarettes are not all good, though. My hands always get cold and I feel revved up every time I smoke. Even if I eat a large meal and inhibit FFA with aspirin and niacinamide, I still get this stress response. I was smoking them pretty heavily at first, trying to find the optimal dose for me and honestly, 1-2 cigs a day seems optimal. I imagine that will reduce the drawbacks associated with them as well.

 

[Constatine]

Remember that if you do decide to smoke for the benefits than you should take some anti-cancer precautions. Mushrooms would be a good place to start.

 

[Filip1993]

I have PTSD and cigarettes really help me. I just started smoking about a week and a half ago just to see. It made a huge difference. I believe the fact cigarettes raise dopamine so effectively makes them excellent for treating PTSD, which, as we all know, is characterized by increased serotonin and cortisol. Cigarettes are not all good, though. My hands always get cold and I feel revved up every time I smoke. Even if I eat a large meal and inhibit FFA with aspirin and niacinamide, I still get this stress response. I was smoking them pretty heavily at first, trying to find the optimal dose for me and honestly, 1-2 cigs a day seems optimal. I imagine that will reduce the drawbacks associated with them as well.

How much nicotine is there in your cigarettes? I usually smoke really light cigarettes. Cigarettes with higher nicotine will raise stress hormones. I won't smoke a cigarette with more than 0,6 mg per cigarette, usually I smoke 0,4 mg nic cigarettes when they're available.

 

[zztr]

Talking about how light a cigarette is or how much nicotine is in it has never made any sense to me. You don't eat the thing; you control dosing by the size and number of puffs, and by how deeply you inhale.

 

[Filip1993]

Talking about how light a cigarette is or how much nicotine is in it has never made any sense to me. You don't eat the thing; you control dosing by the size and number of puffs, and by how deeply you inhale.

Valid point, but I still feel the difference between cigarettes with different nicotine content. But your right, you can control it, just throw it away when you've had enough.

 

[opethfeldt]

How much nicotine is there in your cigarettes? I usually smoke really light cigarettes. Cigarettes with higher nicotine will raise stress hormones. I won't smoke a cigarette with more than 0,6 mg per cigarette, usually I smoke 0,4 mg nic cigarettes when they're available.

I believe they are 1.8mg, so extremely high. I did that because I figured it was better to smoke less and get more of the active ingredient I'm trying to get with less of the cancer causing smoke. Considering I only smoke twice a day at most, I'm not too worried about a brief increase in adrenaline and/or cortisol. Stress responses that are brief are not really that harmful. I also take theanine throughout the day, so that should blunt some of the stress hormones I would think.

 

[Filip1993]

I believe they are 1.8mg, so extremely high. I did that because I figured it was better to smoke less and get more of the active ingredient I'm trying to get with less of the cancer causing smoke. Considering I only smoke twice a day at most, I'm not too worried about a brief increase in adrenaline and/or cortisol. Stress responses that are brief are not really that harmful. I also take theanine throughout the day, so that should blunt some of the stress hormones I would think.

Personally I think they're too high in nicotine, i think it's better to smoke a couple of lower nicotine cigarrettes instead. Sure you can control it like someone in the thread said. Just my opinion.

Edit: This study might be relevant for you: Nicotine from cigarette smoking increases circulating levels of cortisol, growth hormone, and prolactin in male chronic smokers. - PubMed - NCBI

 

[opethfeldt]

Personally I think they're too high in nicotine, i think it's better to smoke a couple of lower nicotine cigarrettes instead. Sure you can control it like someone in the thread said. Just my opinion.

Edit: This study might be relevant for you: Nicotine from cigarette smoking increases circulating levels of cortisol, growth hormone, and prolactin in male chronic smokers. - PubMed - NCBI

I'm fairly content with the trade-off. I take a multitude of substances that reduce cortisol, growth hormone and prolactin, so if having a couple high nicotine cigarettes increases those, I'm not particularly worried.

 

[raypeatclips]

I remember Dewitt on the old peatarian site saying there was incidence of cancer with smoking and beta carotene. All smokers here maybe research that and rethink any carrots you eat so you don't hurt yourself

 

[denise]

Care to share these benefits? Smoking 2-3 cigarettes a day, for me, seems to boost cognitive function a bit, but with an almost hive-minded effect often in addition. I realize this may be stabilized further along the duration of a smoking habit. Lastly, and perhaps most vexing, is the heightened level of mucous that is formed, and the accompanying congestion. I might not have noticed this effect as markedly had I not been into yoga, in which a clean, clear, uninterrupted breath through the nose is essential. After smoking for a few days, this mucous blockage begins to occur and subsides only a few days after cessation.

Of course, I would easily endure these bad effects, should the benefits be proven or agreed upon here.

What kind are you smoking? My own experience isn't conclusive in the slightest, because previously I had been smoking almost half a pack for a couple years, and now I've been smoking 4/day for 8 months, but since restarting and smoking only my organic hand-rolled ones, I haven't noticed any mucus production at all (I was starting to cough before I quit, which is one of the reasons I wanted to quit).

There's another smoking thread around here (from a couple years ago) in which a couple people mentioned that tobacco used to be used to help respiration--it was actually prescribed for those with asthma. They said that since they started smoking tobacco they got from leafonly.com, they each had experienced the bronchial-opening effects for the first time. So that may be something to consider.

 

[denise]

I remember Dewitt on the old peatarian site saying there was incidence of cancer with smoking and beta carotene. All smokers here maybe research that and rethink any carrots you eat so you don't hurt yourself

I hate carrots in any form, so now I have another good excuse not to eat them!

 

[tfcjesse]

What kind are you smoking? My own experience isn't conclusive in the slightest, because previously I had been smoking almost half a pack for a couple years, and now I've been smoking 4/day for 8 months, but since restarting and smoking only my organic hand-rolled ones, I haven't noticed any mucus production at all (I was starting to cough before I quit, which is one of the reasons I wanted to quit).

There's another smoking thread around here (from a couple years ago) in which a couple people mentioned that tobacco used to be used to help respiration--it was actually prescribed for those with asthma. They said that since they started smoking tobacco they got from leafonly.com, they each had experienced the bronchial-opening effects for the first time. So that may be something to consider.

A variety, but they are all within the Camel/Marlboro spectrum. Additives and all the nasty stuff. Perhaps that is why? I never developed a cough, only the nasal congestion and mucous buildup (most often upon waking). I have a hunch that smoking these organic hand-rolled would be superior. Where do you get those, and how is the cost?

 

[denise]

A variety, but they are all within the Camel/Marlboro spectrum. Additives and all the nasty stuff. Perhaps that is why? I never developed a cough, only the nasal congestion and mucous buildup (most often upon waking). I have a hunch that smoking these organic hand-rolled would be superior. Where do you get those, and how is the cost?

I smoke American Spirit organic, and roll them in RAW organic hemp papers with RAW tips (no filter). It costs about $12.50, and I get about 40-45 cigarettes out of it (I use a roller, which cost me about 3 bucks). So it's definitely cheaper than buying organic smokes by the pack. I'm not sure how it compares to Marlboro prices. And the taste is far superior even than regular American Spirits. I buy everything from a local head shop, though i can also get it from a local tobacco shop. It's definitely not the sort of thing you can just run down to the corner gas station for, which I rather like.

Previously, I did develop nasal congestion first. Then the cough showed up, and that's what tipped the scales.

 

[zztr]

The Hestia smokes are worth ordering. They're fantastic in terms of the quality. The problem is they're huge and burn a bit harsh. I only ever smoke about half of one. They made them big enough to qualify as cigarillos for federal regulatory purposes. That's why you can buy them online. They actually burn a bit more like cigarillos. I take mouth hits and inhale relatively tiny draws.

As for a cigarette available at shops, Dunhills are the only brand that doesn't annoy me.

Widely available non-"luxury" cigarettes are total crap and I don't understand how people can smoke them. American Spirit is crap. I tried buying some rolling tobacco locally and it wasn't good. The mainline BAT/Altria/etc. brand cigarettes are total crap.

I've never tried sourcing organic tobacco and shredding it myself, but that seems like a hell of a lot of effort for ten or fifteen cigarettes a week. I'd just say that if you want to experiment with smoking as a tool, getting a cigarette that's at all useful is a bit of a chore. Most of them are really, really bad.

 

[Travis]

As for a cigarette available at shops, Dunhills are the only brand that doesn't annoy me.

Dunhill Internationals are great. I just told my Indonesian friend to send me some along with the Dunhill Cloves (yes, Dunhill makes clove cigarettes).

Non-FSC Dunhill's can still be found in Russia and Asia I think. Ciggiesworld still appears to have them:

 

[Travis]

I remember Dewitt on the old peatarian site saying there was incidence of cancer with smoking and beta carotene. All smokers here maybe research that and rethink any carrots you eat so you don't hurt yourself

I was just reading about this. In the first study, The Beta-Carotene and Retinol Efficacy Trial (CARET), the active group were given both 30 milligrams of β-carotene and 25,000 IU of retinol. The participants were smokers and people exposed to asbestos, so-called "high-risk" participants. They stopped the study short because the risk ratio increased to about 1.36 for raw data and 1.59 for their "weighted analysis".

Drinking increased the rate, and when analyzed separately in the retinol/carotene groups yield risk ratios of...

The difference in the intervention RR between the highest quartile of alcohol intake (RR = 1.99; 95% CI = 1.28-3.09) and nondrinkers (RR = 1.07; 95% CI = 0.76-1.51) was statistically significant (P = .02).

But what is unusual in this study is that the serum β-carotene showed a protective effect:

This was followed by a larger study called The Alpha-Tocopherol, Beta-Carotene Cancer Prevention Study (ATBC). This was the Cadillac of cancer studies and had 29,133 participants broken into four groups: vitamin E, 20 milligrams of β-carotene, both of these, and a placebo.

They noticed a light reduction of cancer with vitamin E and a slight increase with β-carotene.

The risk ratio for 20 milligrams of β-carotene was only 1.16.

The risk ratio in the highest alcohol quintile was 1.35.

The risk ratio in the lowest alcohol quartile was 1.03.


It's well-known that retinol acts like a hormone; it binds with the nuclear retinol X receptor and induces transcription. Retinol induces proliferation of cells.

Betacarotene is two retinol molecules stuck together but cannot influence the growth receptor. When it is found intact in the blood, it's antioxidant function prevents cancer. It is only when it is cleaved into two molecules of retinol that it promotes cancer.

I think the focus should have been more on retinol, and more importantly, retinol plus alcohol. I don't think that β-carotene can promote cancer without becoming retinol first.

The second study was for β-carotene with no retinol, so higher plasma β-carotene levels would necessarily indicate lower carcinogenic retinol levels.

 

[Lucenzo01]

There was a study where they gave to different animals the equivalent human dose of 200 cigarettes a day for decades. Do you know how many animals developed cancer? Cero. None. The smokers animals had every parameter better than control.

 

[raypeatclips]

There was a study where they gave to different animals the equivalent human dose of 200 cigarettes a day for decades. Do you know how many animals developed cancer? Cero. None. The smokers animals had every parameter better than control.

Yeah gonna need a source on that study.