Sleep Times the cause of low testosterone in contemporary society?

[Drareg]

I believe this is one of the most overlooked aspects of testosterone decline in males, I understand the argument about diet, drug use etc, the claim that humans are becoming weaker all over the world because of this doesn’t add up, records are being broken regularly and sports performance is increasing, this maybe a select few at elite levels but the point still stands, we have the capacity to do more now.

Most elite athletes know this about sleep times, 10.30 pm seems to be the ideal time to sleep.
Most non athletes are staying up until 12am and later and then up for work/school at 7.30am, in university many stay up late also, it’s been shown that sleep deprivation for 1 week for 5 hours per night causes 10-15% decline in Testosterone levels.
The internet and gaming is probably causing many young people to stay up later also.

We see plenty of articles about male testosterone decline but little about female hormone decline, this is probably difficult because of contraception use and how the medical establishment view estrogen, also women have higher progesterone levels which is protective so maybe they are better at maintaining a better sleep routine, most women I know do have good sleep routines compared to males I know.

Im hearing this topic everywhere now and it seems like it’s veering toward a moral panic, it’s seems easily rectified, my argument would be that if males get to sleep before 11pm every night and follow a "peaty" lifestyle testosterone levels would be higher than at any point in history, even higher than hunter gatherers, it’s really overstated the hunter gatherer health, they were/are extremely primitive and have reduced lifespans because of this primacy, everybody hops on about their jaw structure also but their heads/skulls were smaller, this needs to be factored in.

 

[Kayaker]

I think the traditional American diet was plenty Peaty, furthermore, there are toxins everywhere, such as fat soluble DDT and PCB in dietary fat that build up in adipose tissue, brain tissue, and probably the testes since they have lipids.

When it comes to sleep, I don't see how testosterone level is anything but a rough indicator of health for a given male. When there's stress of any kind, such as sleep deprivation, more gets turned into estrogen and thyroid function falls, which reduces testosterone production as well.

The internet and gaming are a big problem, which include but aren't limited to causing damage through sleep deprivation.

Keep in mind that the rate of depression is very high due to the artificial environments and ways of life we find ourselves in. Even though we may have gone hungry in the hunter-gatherer days, life was simpler and more natural for our instincts. Things have become very complicated and it overwhelms people and makes them feel helpless, lost, and more receptive toward authoritarianism.

 

[TheCalciumCad]

‘During the night, there are many changes that suggest that the thyroid functions are being blocked, for example a surge in the thyroid stimulating hormone, with T4 and T3 being lowest between 11pm and 3am, while temperature and energy production are at their lowest. This suggests that the problems of hypothyroidism will be most noticeable during the night.’
'People who are awake in the dark have higher levels of cortisol than when they are asleep in the dark, that is, sleep is a partial defense against the stress of darkness.'
'The absence of bright light would create a progesterone deficiency, and would leave estrogen and prolactin unopposed.' - Ray Peat

 

[yerrag]

Lately, I've struggled with getting enough sleep, the 7hr target is hard to achieve. Even when I sleep by 1030pm. My libido has been falling off as well.

Any attempt to sleep towards my 7hr goal would just be me kidding myself, as I lay in bed awake past 6 hours of sleep. And it's not because I am recharged.

Thyroid is the least of my problems. I doze off quickly, and if it weren't for the. need to wake up 3x a night, I would have a good slumber.

I think the reason I would wake up often to urinate is why my testosterone is low. Getting into the habit of sleeping early isn't helping me, but this is just me. My issues are different.

I think though that lifestyle factors play a lot into this. And if sleeping late were a major cause, I wonder if testosterone levels in general were boosted from the restrictions placed on night life, which allowed us to get to sleep earlier. Of course, gamers can play all day and night with out without restrictions. And online addicts of social media. And binge watchers of Netflix.

 

[Drareg]

‘During the night, there are many changes that suggest that the thyroid functions are being blocked, for example a surge in the thyroid stimulating hormone, with T4 and T3 being lowest between 11pm and 3am, while temperature and energy production are at their lowest. This suggests that the problems of hypothyroidism will be most noticeable during the night.’
'People who are awake in the dark have higher levels of cortisol than when they are asleep in the dark, that is, sleep is a partial defense against the stress of darkness.'
'The absence of bright light would create a progesterone deficiency, and would leave estrogen and prolactin unopposed.' - Ray Peat

Great quotes.

 

[Drareg]

I think the traditional American diet was plenty Peaty, furthermore, there are toxins everywhere, such as fat soluble DDT and PCB in dietary fat that build up in adipose tissue, brain tissue, and probably the testes since they have lipids.

When it comes to sleep, I don't see how testosterone level is anything but a rough indicator of health for a given male. When there's stress of any kind, such as sleep deprivation, more gets turned into estrogen and thyroid function falls, which reduces testosterone production as well.

The internet and gaming are a big problem, which include but aren't limited to causing damage through sleep deprivation.

Keep in mind that the rate of depression is very high due to the artificial environments and ways of life we find ourselves in. Even though we may have gone hungry in the hunter-gatherer days, life was simpler and more natural for our instincts. Things have become very complicated and it overwhelms people and makes them feel helpless, lost, and more receptive toward authoritarianism.

I agree, testosterone conversion pathways need to be discussed, lack of sleep, toxins, stress will cause it to convert to estrogen.

 

[Alex Jaramillo]

I’ve been having a hard time sleeping much at all. The best sleep I’ve ever had in my life was in Colorado. I rarely ever sleep good here in Florida.