Skin Problem After Peating

[raypeatclips]

there are many people I've noticed that are doing many things that are not in line with Peat's guidelines on this forum.

What if that is the Peat way? Find things from his "guidelines" that work for you, and create your own diet?

Peat has said before it is important to food that tastes good. Where does that leave the guidelines to the diet?

I have seen and enjoyed all of Danny Roddy's videos and he has done an excellent job of making people aware of Peat. Roddy has his own interpretation of Peat, which is successful for him and you seem to be more following Roddy, than Peat. I could tell you about all the book Catch 22 and as much as I tell you, you still wouldn't have read it yourself. Start to read the transcripts of Peat's interviews burtlancast has produced on the forum, if you struggle to listen to his voice.

 

[Emstar1892]

What if that is the Peat way? Find things from his "guidelines" that work for you, and create your own diet?

Peat has said before it is important to food that tastes good. Where does that leave the guidelines to the diet?

I have seen and enjoyed all of Danny Roddy's videos and he has done an excellent job of making people aware of Peat. Roddy has his own interpretation of Peat, which is successful for him and you seem to be more following Roddy, than Peat. I could tell you about all the book Catch 22 and as much as I tell you, you still wouldn't have read it yourself. Start to read the transcripts of Peat's interviews burtlancast has produced on the forum, if you struggle to listen to his voice.

Yes, I agree with all of this.

If I was to live on Danny Roddy's diet, I would be going against 'Peat' guidelines, because I know that such a restrictive and anti-social diet would make me depressed, isolated and frustrated, which would create all the wrong 'Peatian' hormonal responses haha!

 

[Hasen]

What if that is the Peat way? Find things from his "guidelines" that work for you, and create your own diet?

Ok...but again I don't think he's said that...or at least you haven't provided any source for anything so far you claim he has said.

If you check here he's certainly very much against starches. The nearest he get's to approving them is saying that they're ok if you can't get hold of better carbohydrates.

Glycemia, starch, and sugar in context

Peat has said before it is important to food that tastes good. Where does that leave the guidelines to the diet?

....the same as they were? Not sure what you're trying to say. If you just want to eat whatever seems to work for you that's fine, but its no more Peat than it is Primal or GAPS.

Sorry but if Peat writes an article about starches and how they are grossly inferior to simple sugars then you proceed to eat loads of muesli, rice and bread every day then you just aren't following Peat. He's stated certain things that are good, certain things that are bad...but overall he's stating an ideal. There is room for flexibility but some things but others are just against his theories.

He's particularly against fish oil for example, writes (rants) about it a lot so if you're eating oily fish you can't really say you're following Peat's eating guidelines.

I have seen and enjoyed all of Danny Roddy's videos and he has done an excellent job of making people aware of Peat. Roddy has his own interpretation of Peat, which is successful for him and you seem to be more following Roddy, than Peat.

Haha you give him too much credit. He's a good independent researcher and an intelligent guy, but he takes all his cues from Ray Peat and follows it to the letter and is in constant contact with him. The Peat Whisperer book is also fully approved by Ray. You can follow Ray and eat slightly differently but there are certain things you can do that Ray wouldn't approve of. Danny Roddy gives three example diets in his baldness videos where you can see some flexibility but they are all diets Ray would approve of. There's no raw mushrooms....there's no muesli......there's no french bread....because all these things are not approved by Ray.

Put it this way, say I'm following Paleo but later on into the diet I decide I want to drink milk - am I still following Paleo? What about if I start to have cheese too? Maybe its just once a week or every day...maybe I want to eat some processed junk food now and again each week. Where do you draw the line? All you can say is that none of these things are in keeping with the principles of Paleo.

 

[Hasen]

Yes, I agree with all of this.

If I was to live on Danny Roddy's diet, I would be going against 'Peat' guidelines, because I know that such a restrictive and anti-social diet would make me depressed, isolated and frustrated, which would create all the wrong 'Peatian' hormonal responses haha!

Yes of course you're welcome to eat anything you want and follow any diet protocol or guidelines you like.

 

[Emstar1892]

I'm slightly confused about your perspective.

- If you follow all of Ray Peat's suggestions, for every kind of health issue, to an absolute tee, then you will eat about 10 things in total, and supplement all day long.
- If you follow some of Ray Peat's suggestions, for certain kinds of health issue, or to upkeep good health, then you will eat more things in total, and supplement sometimes/specifically.
- If you follow none of Ray Peat's suggestions for any kind of health issue, then you will eat many things in total, and supplement never (or take iron/cod liver oil types of supplement)

I don't think anyone here disagrees? Are you frustrated that some of us who claim to "follow" Peat don't match the first category? If so, and if this is because slight tweaks led to better health markers from Peat's perspective, then which is of more value: living according to Peat's understanding of healthy biomarkers, or living according to Peat's particular dietary guidelines? Which one is Peat, and which is non-Peat? The last thing I would do is follow principles that contradict the lab values and external markers they were made to enhance.

Case in point - I still have low thyroid and cortisol, and when I eat fruit, or juice, it gives me reactive hypoglycemia. Even with fat and/or protein. Even with ample calories. Even when I try for months. Over time, this gives me even further decreased FT3 and FT4 values, pulse, and temperature, and makes me feel terrible. What would the 'Peat' answer be? I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be "keep following my fruit guidelines". Rather, I reckon it would be "eat what was keeping thyroid, temp, pulse and moods up," which often happens to be starch. If this was the case, then the guidelines you refer to as 'Peatian' would be overruled by Peat himself.

Another case in point - I have never been able to tolerate dairy (probably because of the above conditions). Any attempt leads to digestive hell, a face full of cysts and a build up in my lymphatic system. The stress of that alone isn't good for my hormones, and the insecurity from my external reaction worsens that even more. What would the 'Peat' answer be?

So again, I don't think the constituents of a plate really reflect whether or not one is 'truly' Peatian in isolation, because biochemical responses to foods are variable according to prior/underlying conditions. I've learned a lot from this forum, and from Peat himself, but my protocol is much more complex than food alone. For some people, being a 'danny roddy' is the solution. For others (where I have pituitary and hypothalmic dysfunction, just so ya' know), being a 'danny roddy' would be a disaster.

 

[raypeatclips]

you haven't provided any source for anything so far you claim he has said.

Read the transcripts of his interviews. You will learn more than your questions about diet. Good luck in the future.

 

[Agent207]

I discovered Peat being in an almost-utter health state, having being on eating habbits that some would look contrary to some of this forum dogmas Peats interpretation. I ate almost every kind of food: little sugar (just from fruit and honey), LOTSSSSSSSSSSS of starches like bread (sourdough), pasta (from einkorn mostly lately), rice (white and brown), potatoes, legumes, salt cured ham, calf meat, vegetables (for garnish, not tons os salads), calf meat, pufas from oily and non oily fishes, nuts here and there (not abusing but not restricting neither), avocados, raw EVOO, coconut oil (yes, from long time ago for many coconut oil /mct was not introduced by peat), cheeses (most from raw and goat milk), local-made yogurth and cottage, undenatured whey protein, cocoa... mainly. Always did very low on shelfish intake becouse heavy metal concern. No milk (I think most commercial milk is poison), coffee just decaf, no sodas neither.

Above all, 90% of my food was natural food, avoided processed or packaged supermarket food always I could. My digestion was always inmaculated with almost every food -even when I ate crap at mcdonalds or restaurants-, never had an issue with my skin, and I was at 10-12% BF at 33yo, eating around 3500kcal and doing moderate strenght training. I see exercise, specially strenght training (non-lactic ATP+Glycogen fuelled) to be a BIG key and one of the most powerfull health pillars for me, phisical and mental. And not constant overthinking and stressing too much about possibly dangers of any single food.

I found Peat not becouse I was in a under-optimun health state, but becouse Im a very curious person who is always looking to learn new things and open to new perspectives. I can freely say after applying some "RP ideas" it didnt produce any feeling of improvement in 2 years, although I believe internally it did (thanks I never thought for a moment on doing things like that "2quarts OJ and 2quarts milk", or trying to push "near 0 pufas" with "fully hydrogenated" oils or commercial treated OJ and so on...). I didn't worsen either except the a little dryer skin issue.

Either way I honestly think its discovering was good overall, and some things I incorporated like a little less pufa and other minor things will be for positive; not to mention the unvaluable health and body-functioning info I learnt from his work and knowledge. Thats priceless and the best of Peat for me. That and the general free and open mindset of this forum (very Peatish btw ) and his members, which contribute with knowledge and interesting ideas.


So overall, for an already healthy person who eats the most VARIED diet and food sources with no problem, who eats CLEAN TRUE FOOD aditive/pesticide-free, non-industrial uprocessed, organic, seasonal and local when possible (this special with animal foods), clean water... etc, I seriously think going more "Peat" is going to improve much of a thing, and what it may improve its probably gonna be negligible in comparision with the former. But you could do it very bad doing that "strict Peat" crazy idea going all milk, OJ and the habitual 7-8 more known foods.

I speak for myself after having tried. For an ill person, the scenario could be different.

 

[Emstar1892]

So overall, for an already healthy person who eats the most VARIED diet and food sources with no problem, who eats CLEAN TRUE FOOD aditive/pesticide-free, non-industrial uprocessed, organic, seasonal and local when possible (this special with animal foods), clean water... etc, I seriously think going more "Peat" is going to improve much of a thing, and what it may improve its probably gonna be negligible in comparision with the former. But you could do it very bad doing that "strict Peat" crazy idea going all milk, OJ and the habitual 7-8 more known foods.

I speak for myself after having tried. For an ill person, the scenario could be different.

Yes. And for an ill person, its sometimes really dangerous. I thought my issues were caused by my diet alone, so I tried to 'ramp up' my metabolism and raise my thyroid the HCLF way for ages, before becoming seriously ill.

 

[EIRE24]

I discovered Peat being in an almost-utter health state, having being on eating habbits that some would look contrary to some of this forum dogmas Peats interpretation. I ate almost every kind of food: little sugar (just from fruit and honey), LOTSSSSSSSSSSS of starches like bread (sourdough), pasta (from einkorn mostly lately), rice (white and brown), potatoes, legumes, salt cured ham, calf meat, vegetables (for garnish, not tons os salads), calf meat, pufas from oily and non oily fishes, nuts here and there (not abusing but not restricting neither), avocados, raw EVOO, coconut oil (yes, from long time ago for many coconut oil /mct was not introduced by peat), cheeses (most from raw and goat milk), local-made yogurth and cottage, undenatured whey protein, cocoa... mainly. Always did very low on shelfish intake becouse heavy metal concern. No milk (I think most commercial milk is poison), coffee just decaf, no sodas neither.

Above all, 90% of my food was natural food, avoided processed or packaged supermarket food always I could. My digestion was always inmaculated with almost every food -even when I ate crap at mcdonalds or restaurants-, never had an issue with my skin, and I was at 10-12% BF at 33yo, eating around 3500kcal and doing moderate strenght training. I see exercise, specially strenght training (non-lactic ATP+Glycogen fuelled) to be a BIG key and one of the most powerfull health pillars for me, phisical and mental. And not constant overthinking and stressing too much about possibly dangers of any single food.

I found Peat not becouse I was in a under-optimun health state, but becouse Im a very curious person who is always looking to learn new things and open to new perspectives. I can freely say after applying some "RP ideas" it didnt produce any feeling of improvement in 2 years, although I believe internally it did (thanks I never thought for a moment on doing things like that "2quarts OJ and 2quarts milk", or trying to push "near 0 pufas" with "fully hydrogenated" oils or commercial treated OJ and so on...). I didn't worsen either except the a little dryer skin issue.

Either way I honestly think its discovering was good overall, and some things I incorporated like a little less pufa and other minor things will be for positive; not to mention the unvaluable health and body-functioning info I learnt from his work and knowledge. Thats priceless and the best of Peat for me. That and the general free and open mindset of this forum (very Peatish btw ) and his members, which contribute with knowledge and interesting ideas.


So overall, for an already healthy person who eats the most VARIED diet and food sources with no problem, who eats CLEAN TRUE FOOD aditive/pesticide-free, non-industrial uprocessed, organic, seasonal and local when possible (this special with animal foods), clean water... etc, I seriously think going more "Peat" is going to improve much of a thing, and what it may improve its probably gonna be negligible in comparision with the former. But you could do it very bad doing that "strict Peat" crazy idea going all milk, OJ and the habitual 7-8 more known foods.

I speak for myself after having tried. For an ill person, the scenario could be different.

Did you just get dry skin or did you see some acne form with this too? What did you do to get rid of it?

 

[Ukall]

I discovered Peat being in an almost-utter health state, having being on eating habbits that some would look contrary to some of this forum dogmas Peats interpretation. I ate almost every kind of food: little sugar (just from fruit and honey), LOTSSSSSSSSSSS of starches like bread (sourdough), pasta (from einkorn mostly lately), rice (white and brown), potatoes, legumes, salt cured ham, calf meat, vegetables (for garnish, not tons os salads), calf meat, pufas from oily and non oily fishes, nuts here and there (not abusing but not restricting neither), avocados, raw EVOO, coconut oil (yes, from long time ago for many coconut oil /mct was not introduced by peat), cheeses (most from raw and goat milk), local-made yogurth and cottage, undenatured whey protein, cocoa... mainly. Always did very low on shelfish intake becouse heavy metal concern. No milk (I think most commercial milk is poison), coffee just decaf, no sodas neither.

Above all, 90% of my food was natural food, avoided processed or packaged supermarket food always I could. My digestion was always inmaculated with almost every food -even when I ate crap at mcdonalds or restaurants-, never had an issue with my skin, and I was at 10-12% BF at 33yo, eating around 3500kcal and doing moderate strenght training. I see exercise, specially strenght training (non-lactic ATP+Glycogen fuelled) to be a BIG key and one of the most powerfull health pillars for me, phisical and mental. And not constant overthinking and stressing too much about possibly dangers of any single food.

I found Peat not becouse I was in a under-optimun health state, but becouse Im a very curious person who is always looking to learn new things and open to new perspectives. I can freely say after applying some "RP ideas" it didnt produce any feeling of improvement in 2 years, although I believe internally it did (thanks I never thought for a moment on doing things like that "2quarts OJ and 2quarts milk", or trying to push "near 0 pufas" with "fully hydrogenated" oils or commercial treated OJ and so on...). I didn't worsen either except the a little dryer skin issue.

Either way I honestly think its discovering was good overall, and some things I incorporated like a little less pufa and other minor things will be for positive; not to mention the unvaluable health and body-functioning info I learnt from his work and knowledge. Thats priceless and the best of Peat for me. That and the general free and open mindset of this forum (very Peatish btw ) and his members, which contribute with knowledge and interesting ideas.


So overall, for an already healthy person who eats the most VARIED diet and food sources with no problem, who eats CLEAN TRUE FOOD aditive/pesticide-free, non-industrial uprocessed, organic, seasonal and local when possible (this special with animal foods), clean water... etc, I seriously think going more "Peat" is going to improve much of a thing, and what it may improve its probably gonna be negligible in comparision with the former. But you could do it very bad doing that "strict Peat" crazy idea going all milk, OJ and the habitual 7-8 more known foods.

I won't say that I don't agree with you, because I think when a person starts to change his diet radically, it has more bad consequences than good...
However, in summary, what you are writing here is pretty much a 'normal' diet and avoiding processed foods.

I speak for myself after having tried. For an ill person, the scenario could be different.

Yeah, I wish it was that simple for those people too...

Yes. And for an ill person, its sometimes really dangerous. I thought my issues were caused by my diet alone, so I tried to 'ramp up' my metabolism and raise my thyroid the HCLF way for ages, before becoming seriously ill.

And lots of people get seriously ill doing a 'normal' diet, or trying vegetarianism/veganism, or trying paleo, or trying fasting cleanses...
I think the way you seem to talk is very negative and pessimist. Ok, it didn't work for you, but there is no need to beat yourself up. Everybody fails. Perhaps if it wasn't here, you may ended up with the same results trying another diet. But, godammit, at least you've tried.

 

[Agent207]

Did you just get dry skin or did you see some acne form with this too? What did you do to get rid of it?

Never had acne since my 16s. Just recently developed a bit dry hair skin; it could be related to lots of things not the Peat oriented diet -been on it almost 2 years-, but I saw minor improvement from rescuing a fraction of the habbits I used to before Peat.

I eat oats again, ~a cup for breakfast (which I always loved with cottage, honey and cocoa nibs) that I had initially removed "becouse pufas"; I introduced back too avocados (I like avocados so much when ripe, soft and "buttery"). I also I lowered on sugar from fruit/honey that I had it increased when introduced to Peat diet ideas; now I reduced to 1/3 max. of total carbs. Starches for the rest -which I find very palatable-, and soaked and well-cooked legumes one a week or so.

But the most important, I plan to give some more weight to instint and cravings, inside the whole spectrum of fresh natural foods. If one day I crave for salmon (wild) I'll have it and wont over-think about that.

I won't say that I don't agree with you, because I think when a person starts to change his diet radically, it has more bad consequences than good...
However, in summary, what you are writing here is pretty much a 'normal' diet and avoiding processed foods..

Food source for me is paramount, a crucial start point. A "normal" diet is fine as long as it keeps you in a well-being and energetic mind/body state, and you do fine with the most variety of foods possible.

Its OK if any particular food doesnt agree with you; but when you have to be quitting an increasing number of foods -see wheats bc gluten, milk/lactose, legumes/lectins, nightshade/alkaloids, nuts/allergens...etc, etc- you should have to start considering maybe is not the food that is bad, but something that is wrong inside you, and why. A healthy-normal person should be able to cop with the most possible range of foods, reaping most of its benefits and dealing with the "bad" part with no problem. When you're strong enough you can even benefit of the "bad part" via hormesis which will make you stronger. Balance and self-knowledge is key here.

 

[tara]

Well no you can't follow him 'exactly', but its quite easy to see the ones who are going against what he says. Like not consuming more calcium than phosphate, eating any kind of vegetables, not eating high amounts of protein, eating PUFAs, oily fish, not really consuming any sugar etc etc. So far Danny Roddy is the only one I've come across actually following Peat.

You mean Danny Roddy is the only one following a simplified protocol defined by Danny Roddy based on his interpretation of Peat's work applied to his own situation? I think DR's writing has value for a number of people, and I've appreciated what I've read of it too. But you can't know very much of what Peat thinks just by reading DR.

OK on that note let's rephrase what I said: I've noticed many not following Ray Peat's advice and guidelines like Danny Roddy does.

OK, I buy that, lots of people don't do what Danny does. Not sure why you think they should, or why yo equate that to not following Peat.

Does he allow... now?

Importantly, from my point of view, Peat doesn't 'allow' or 'disallow ' anyone from doing anything. He shares information, hypotheses, ideas; he doesn't issue a lot of orders, as far as I've seen.
From my PoV, strict lists of 'allow' and 'disallow' foods seem to fit with potentially problematic orthorexic approaches to diet. Orthorexia can sometimes result in such restrictive diets as to be a serious health hazard in themselves (including the social implications).

If it has changed then let me know what has changed? Does he allow chicken now? Does he not approve of oysters anymore? Does he think phosphate should be higher then calcium intake instead of the other way around?

Does he allow chicken now?

And on the particular, I'm pretty sure I've seen a quote from him suggesting not to eat chicken more often than ever 10 days or so. Muscle meats preferably balanced with collagenous parts. Last I heard, he favours calcium at least as high as phosphorus, as you say - probably somewhere in the range 1:1 - 2:1. That's one of the benefits of leafy greens. Olive oil 1tsp/day maybe OK. Goitrogenic foods have little effect in small quantities, but become a problem in larger quantities (though some particularly estrogenic substances such as those in soy may be an exception for sensitive people). He's said that spinach, if it is not high in nitrates from fertilisers, can be good food.

As far as I'm aware, Peat's guidelines haven't changed much or otherwise Danny would have changed his diet.

Are you assuming that DR is an always reliable and complete authority and spokesperson on what Peat recommends as a diet for everybody? I don't recall Peat authorising him in that role.

Give me some details.

Plenty more details here:
Ray Peat Resources & Quotes | Ray Peat Forum
You can't get a very full picture in a very short summary.

If you check here he's certainly very much against starches. The nearest he get's to approving them is saying that they're ok if you can't get hold of better carbohydrates.

Funny how people can interpret a single sentence so differently. I don't read that as 'very much against starches'. Not like he's very much against using large quantities of seed or fish oils for fuel, for instance.

Sorry but if Peat writes an article about starches and how they are grossly inferior to simple sugars then you proceed to eat loads of muesli, rice and bread every day then you just aren't following Peat.

Oversimplification. I have read that article. I've not seen Peat say that all starchy foods are grossly inferior to all simple sugars or foods in which most calories come from mono- and di-saccharides.

The Peat Whisperer book is also fully approved by Ray.

Peat said he thought is was a pretty ood book. He didn't say it was an full and authorised presentation of all his important ideas.

He's particularly against fish oil for example, writes (rants) about it a lot so if you're eating oily fish you can't really say you're following Peat's eating guidelines.

Well, if you were eating a couple of kilos of salmon or mackerel a day, when you had obviously better choices available, I'd probably agree. But there's a difference between that and eating a little now and then. Did you read his response in the email depository to someone enquiring about salmon in a meal?

Put it this way, say I'm following Paleo but later on into the diet I decide I want to drink milk - am I still following Paleo? What about if I start to have cheese too? Maybe its just once a week or every day...maybe I want to eat some processed junk food now and again each week. Where do you draw the line? All you can say is that none of these things are in keeping with the principles of Paleo.

various people have defined different versions of 'The Paleo Diet' or template or whatever, and you can do what you like with them. Peat has not defined 'The Peat Diet'. If DR has, that's his definition, not Peat's.

What would the 'Peat' answer be? I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be "keep following my fruit guidelines". Rather, I reckon it would be "eat what was keeping thyroid, temp, pulse and moods up," which often happens to be starch. If this was the case, then the guidelines you refer to as 'Peatian' would be overruled by Peat himself.

+1

Read the transcripts of his interviews. You will learn more than your questions about diet. Good luck in the future.

+1

But the most important, I plan to give some more weight to instint and cravings, inside the whole spectrum of fresh natural foods

I agree - I reckon listening to cravings and instincts can sometimes be a very important factor, and very much aligned with Peat's idea about paying attention to the effects of foods for us as individuals.

Hasen, I think you have picked up some of the general ideas Peat has drawn attention to, and as general guidelines they are likely useful as part of a broader picture - I've pointed to some of those general suggestions in advice to people at times too - like minimising PUFA, calcium to phosphorus ratio, getting enough protein.
But trying to treat them as rigid rules isn't likely to work for everyone, and as far as I can tell, isn't how Peat has intended them.
Possibly you are basically healthy and have money and time to have fairly free choices. Maybe you have not had to deal with serious health issues that can mess with ones ability to digest and use normal foods. If so, lucky you. That doesn't mean that what currently appears to work for you (or Danny Roddy) will necessarily work for everyone.

From my PoV, some of Peat's important principles and advice include encouraging people to seek information, to learn about physiology, to think for ourselves about what makes sense in our own context, to observe the effects of foods and other factors on us. Not to simply follow instructions from some external authority. There isn't a single narrowly defined diet that will be optimal for everyone, partly because we all have different imbalances and damage. This last bit is not just a trivial footnote - it applies to many of us here, as you'll see if you read more.

As an example, there are a number of people here who clearly do better eating lots of potatoes, for instance, than the OJ they have available. Whether starchy potatoes are a hazard for a particular person depends on things like the current state of various parts of their glucose control systems, their microbiome, their gut barrier, their physical activity levels and their glycogen storage capacity, and no doubt other factors. How well people do with large quantities of sugar may depend on at least the state of their liver, their mineral and vitamin reserves, etc. (Haidut and tyw and others have made some good posts on these subjects.)

As another example, Peat is very favourable in general to milk and some cheeses. But some of us can't digest and use milk well. He has some suggestions about ways to get around such problems. But it doesn't make much sense for anyone to force feed milk and cheese when it is clearly causing distressing and probably harmful symptoms. So then we are down to figuring out where else to get protein and calcium from. Every possibility has it's potential downsides - there are not a lot of perfect-for-everyone foods out there. Muscle meats have unbalanced inflammatory amino acids; some people have serious trouble digesting gelatine and collagen; eggs are great, but large quantities give too much PUFA. Same with shellfish, plus they are prone to developing high histamine levels quite quickly, which is a problem for some of us; leaves have some good protein and calcium and magnesium, but too much greens can be a bit high in antinutrients, and depending on circumstances, it may be hard to get greens that are high in nitrates from fertilises. Potatoes have great protein, but some of us don't handle starch so well, or nightshades. Fruits probably contribute useful protein, but the ketoacid contents of various fruits is not well enough known to establish how much one might need of various kinds.

Context also includes which foods are actually readily available to each of us. Many of us do not, for instance, have ready access to sufficient quantities of good quality, fresh, ripe suitable fruit to be able to make this the bulk of our diets, even if it would work for us. Or budget or time or other practical constraints restrict us, or we are feeding a family that does not all want to eat all the same things as us, or ... . So we make the best of what is available and practical for us.
As far as I'm concerned, anyone who is learning from and figuring out how to apply some of Peats ideas is following Peat to some extent.

 

[tara]

If you check here he's certainly very much against starches.

Btw, the most recent listing I've seen of what Peat himself actual eats regularly (~ 2years ago) does seem to include some starch. Not that he has said everyone should eat exactly what he eats. But perhaps you don't think Peat was following 'The Peat Diet'?

1. sprinter - "I would love to hear everything Ray Peat consumes for one week. Including all food and supplements. 10 days would be even better."

Ray Peat - The details vary slightly according to what's available. Daily, milk, fruit (mainly orange juice), eggs, butter, cheese, and coffee. As available, liver, shrimp, squid, oysters, cod, sole, ox-tail soup, chicharrones (puffed pork rind), sapotas, pawpaws, cherimoyas, guanabanas, guavas, carrots, bamboo shoots, small turnips, corundas.

20 Questions With Ray Peat.

 

[Agent207]

From the email advice depository, and having mention to dry skin:

"The dry skin and weak pulse suggest very low thyroid function. The salmon, avocado, and rice are a good balance of fat, protein, and carbohydrate; maybe fat cheese could be substituted for the salmon sometimes. Both sugar and fat stimulate the digestive system hormone that stimulates brain cell renewal. Progesterone helps to reduce tension and excitation, and protects nerves. Pregnenolone reduces stress, and protects nerves."

 

[Hasen]

I'm slightly confused about your perspective.

- If you follow all of Ray Peat's suggestions, for every kind of health issue, to an absolute tee, then you will eat about 10 things in total, and supplement all day long.
- If you follow some of Ray Peat's suggestions, for certain kinds of health issue, or to upkeep good health, then you will eat more things in total, and supplement sometimes/specifically.
- If you follow none of Ray Peat's suggestions for any kind of health issue, then you will eat many things in total, and supplement never (or take iron/cod liver oil types of supplement)

I agree completely. The ultimate goal is to increase temperature and pulse etc so if you do that with your adaptions or by following Paleo it doesn't matter, I'm sure Ray is not gonna disapprove.

You mean Danny Roddy is the only one following a simplified protocol defined by Danny Roddy based on his interpretation of Peat's work applied to his own situation? I think DR's writing has value for a number of people, and I've appreciated what I've read of it too. But you can't know very much of what Peat thinks just by reading DR.

No....I mean what I said, he's the only one I've come across that is following Ray Peat's blueprint.

Importantly, from my point of view, Peat doesn't 'allow' or 'disallow ' anyone from doing anything. He shares information, hypotheses, ideas; he doesn't issue a lot of orders, as far as I've seen.
From my PoV, strict lists of 'allow' and 'disallow' foods seem to fit with potentially problematic orthorexic approaches to diet. Orthorexia can sometimes result in such restrictive diets as to be a serious health hazard in themselves (including the social implications).

OK that's just semantics. His writings explain what he deems to help achieve his goals and what doesn't.

And on the particular, I'm pretty sure I've seen a quote from him suggesting not to eat chicken more often than ever 10 days or so. Muscle meats preferably balanced with collagenous parts. Last I heard, he favours calcium at least as high as phosphorus, as you say - probably somewhere in the range 1:1 - 2:1. That's one of the benefits of leafy greens. Olive oil 1tsp/day maybe OK. Goitrogenic foods have little effect in small quantities, but become a problem in larger quantities (though some particularly estrogenic substances such as those in soy may be an exception for sensitive people). He's said that spinach, if it is not high in nitrates from fertilisers, can be good food.

Well again, I'm welcome to accept these things if there are any sources but so far anyone is yet to provide any source. A simple google search should provide the evidence if it exists.

Funny how people can interpret a single sentence so differently. I don't read that as 'very much against starches'. Not like he's very much against using large quantities of seed or fish oils for fuel, for instance.

No one said he said if you eat these things once they're gonna kill you. Ray's guidelines are all about what is ideal but he doesn't want people to get bored to death eating identical things the rest of their lives. If he said about eating it every 10 days or so then its certainly not ideal. All his recommendations are for what is IDEAL to achieve what he wants us to achieve. Its like if I eat McDonalds one day when I'm supposed to be following Paleo...its ok....but its not Paleo.

Oversimplification. I have read that article. I've not seen Peat say that all starchy foods are grossly inferior to all simple sugars or foods in which most calories come from mono- and di-saccharides.

Again, I never said that, he's just clearly doesn't rate them. Some starches are of course worse than others.

Well, if you were eating a couple of kilos of salmon or mackerel a day, when you had obviously better choices available, I'd probably agree. But there's a difference between that and eating a little now and then. Did you read his response in the email depository to someone enquiring about salmon in a meal?

All his recommendations are for what is IDEAL to achieve what he wants us to achieve. Its like if I eat McDonalds one day when I'm supposed to be following Paleo...its ok....but its not Paleo. No I haven't seen that, I don't know where to find that. I found this which generally recommends to avoid fatty fish:

Fats and degeneration

various people have defined different versions of 'The Paleo Diet' or template or whatever, and you can do what you like with them. Peat has not defined 'The Peat Diet'. If DR has, that's his definition, not Peat's.

He may not have said it outright but its still there. Its a blueprint. He has said things like eating a carrot each day. And its very SPECIFIC! He could just say 'eat a carrot every day'. But he says it should be cut very finely for the most surface area. These are very specific details.

Hasen, I think you have picked up some of the general ideas Peat has drawn attention to, and as general guidelines they are likely useful as part of a broader picture - I've pointed to some of those general suggestions in advice to people at times too - like minimising PUFA, calcium to phosphorus ratio, getting enough protein.
But trying to treat them as rigid rules isn't likely to work for everyone, and as far as I can tell, isn't how Peat has intended them.
Possibly you are basically healthy and have money and time to have fairly free choices. Maybe you have not had to deal with serious health issues that can mess with ones ability to digest and use normal foods. If so, lucky you. That doesn't mean that what currently appears to work for you (or Danny Roddy) will necessarily work for everyone.

From my PoV, some of Peat's important principles and advice include encouraging people to seek information, to learn about physiology, to think for ourselves about what makes sense in our own context, to observe the effects of foods and other factors on us. Not to simply follow instructions from some external authority. There isn't a single narrowly defined diet that will be optimal for everyone, partly because we all have different imbalances and damage. This last bit is not just a trivial footnote - it applies to many of us here, as you'll see if you read more.

Yes I agree, if we as independent researchers come up with things that are different to Ray Peat and make sense physiologically then by all means they could be even better. Matt Stone is a great example of this.

I'm not sure what it is you're suggesting that its ok to eat and say you're following Ray Peat. If you eat something that he's not too fond of ie something he says to have every 10 days then that's fine if you have it now and again. The problem comes to when a lot of people say they tried Ray Peat and it failed but if they were eating starches every day, still taking PUFAs, not getting enough protein/calcium etc any or ALL of these things then did they really try Peat and fail?

If he says mushrooms are ok every 10 days if cooked well and you have them daily....can you really say you're following Peat's blueprint? Again, not sure on the specifics of what you're saying is ok to do and still say you're following Peat.

 

[Hasen]

From the email advice depository, and having mention to dry skin:

"The dry skin and weak pulse suggest very low thyroid function. The salmon, avocado, and rice are a good balance of fat, protein, and carbohydrate; maybe fat cheese could be substituted for the salmon sometimes. Both sugar and fat stimulate the digestive system hormone that stimulates brain cell renewal. Progesterone helps to reduce tension and excitation, and protects nerves. Pregnenolone reduces stress, and protects nerves."

Kind of out of context quote, no wonder you didn't link to it. He's replying to someone with specific issues, who eats those things and has a reaction to them. He said that maybe he could exchange the salmon with cheese sometimes. I think the article of his on fats and degeneration is more reliable than these random, person specific quotes. Those articles are online so he could change them at any time if his beliefs have changed.

You should have posted this with it to avoid confusion:

I don't think he is. I think he's explaining what it is about his combination that might explain why it seemed helpful, and suggesting something else (cheese) that might be preferable to salmon.
I wouldn't take this as a general recommendation that everyone, or everyone with a TBI, should eat salmon, avocado and rice. I'd take it as a recommendation to consider getting a suitable mix of fats, protein and carbs, possibly including cheese.

 

[Emstar1892]

Kind of out of context quote, no wonder you didn't link to it. He's replying to someone with specific issues, who eats those things and has a reaction to them. He said that maybe he could exchange the salmon with cheese sometimes. I think the article of his on fats and degeneration is more reliable than these random, person specific quotes. Those articles are online so he could change them at any time if his beliefs have changed.

You should have posted this with it to avoid confusion:

Right, so you're looking specifically for the guidelines for someone in perfect health, with no specific issues such as those cited by Agent207. So...why would they need guidelines? And what would such a person (yourself I assume) be aiming to achieve? I just still don't really understand what you're getting at?

 

[Hasen]

Right, so you're looking specifically for the guidelines for someone in perfect health, with no specific issues such as those cited by Agent207. So...why would they need guidelines? And what would such a person (yourself I assume) be aiming to achieve? I just still don't really understand what you're getting at?

That doesn't really make sense. He's responding to ONE single person with a specific reaction to salmon. Why does that mean others have to have perfect health? That person's problem have no reflection on what possible problems similar or otherwise others may have (or not have).

If you read the thread you can get more of an idea about it and people's reactions to it:

Ray Peat Email Advice Depository Discussion/Comment Thread

He's written a general article about fats and degeneration. Why ignore that and listen to a small snippet of advice given to a single person with his own specific issue? Check the quote I added from Tara which explains Ray's comment very well.

 

[Emstar1892]

E act

That doesn't really make sense. He's responding to ONE single person with a specific reaction to salmon. Why does that mean others have to have perfect health? That person's problem have no reflection on what possible problems similar or otherwise others may have (or not have).

If you read the thread you can get more of an idea about it and people's reactions to it:

Ray Peat Email Advice Depository Discussion/Comment Thread

He's written a general article about fats and degeneration. Why ignore that and listen to a small snippet of advice given to a single person with his own specific issue? Check the quote I added from Tara which explains Ray's comment very well.

Exactly! So everyone is individual, and his advice is to one individual. Ergo, there are no uniform, universalisable guidelines. No?

 

[Hasen]

E act
Exactly! So everyone is individual, and his advice is to one individual. Ergo, there are no uniform, universalisable guidelines. No?

Yes of course there are, that's why his articles are there in the first place. There are universal guidelines for all kinds of things but there are always certain people, certain cases where things may need to be slightly different. But in any case, don't read too much into that quote, like I said, Tara's comment sums it up very nicely. He never said anything like 'actually fish oil is fine' even for that single particular person. He even suggest perhaps having cheese instead. A person with cancer might need chemotherapy, it doesn't mean you do too.

A better guide are the articles on his website. And don't forget its an overall blueprint with a goal in mind, so eating lots of sugar while not limiting PUFAs may for example have disastrous effects. He advises to eat things that contain iron while also wanting to limit iron....therefore he suggests things you can do to reduce iron absorption at the same time. Missing out or changing any of these steps might not have the overall desired effect.

Although equally you may achieve the desired result (high pulse and temp) through other means, like for example the teachings of Matt Stone.