Skim Milk Causing Mania?

[lampofred]

I switched to skim milk after RP mentioned in a recent interview that he recommends low-fat milk. But it feels like it's making me manic and stupid... It's very simulating but not in a good way like coffee or thyroid.

Is this just the nature of skim milk or is this maybe because I might be deficient in certain nutrients that are needed in higher quantities when digesting skim milk over whole milk?

 

[Cirion]

Man, personally this is my opinion, and take it or leave it, but I'd stop trying to "Force" all the Peat things to work, like milk. I'm kinda following more Chris walker style ideas now (Which granted are heavily based upon Peat principles, but he's not huge on dairy like peat). He's much bigger on meat, eggs, etc which I seem to be tolerating better. If it doesn't work it doesn't work. That said I am experimenting again with milk myself, but this time whole unadultered milk from an Amish farm. A cup or two seems like it's not too bad, but that's pretty much my limit. I'm personally done with trying to get all his suggestions to work. Ray's not a god, he's got some great ideas tho. And I still think he's right on most things though. Yogurt seems reasonable as well for me, and I've been having that every morning, and that does have calcium so there is that. Weren't you drinking an insane amount of milk like 5-6 gram of calcium a day? I don't think that's necessary. 1-2 gram is probably enough calcium I would think? That's what Chris says.

 

[redsun]

I switched to skim milk after RP mentioned in a recent interview that he recommends low-fat milk. But it feels like it's making me manic and stupid... It's very simulating but not in a good way like coffee or thyroid.

Is this just the nature of skim milk or is this maybe because I might be deficient in certain nutrients that are needed in higher quantities when digesting skim milk over whole milk?

That is bizarre but... one possible explanation is the lack of fat will speed up the digestion and therefore the absorption and likewise the energy hits you harder and faster. Beyond that I have no clue.

 

[lampofred]

I actually do better on milk than meat, but yeah in this case I can't agree with Peat that low fat milk is better than full fat milk. It probably is better if you have high CO2 like he does and can handle the stimulation, but for now I need at least 2%.

Yeah I was doing high calcium (2 grams from milk, 3 grams from eggshells) back when I was taking thyroid because Peat said calcium and vitamin D were necessary to reduce fatigue but I stopped the eggshells once I stopped thyroid and switched to skim milk.

It's frustrating because whenever I change anything from OJ, potatoes, eggs, oysters, and full fat/2% milk, I feel worse and dumber, but even with the rigid OJ, potatoes, etc. diet I don't have enough energy.

I'm starting to think the Peat diet is great at preventing further degeneration, but it doesn't actually give you regenerative energy. Only thyroid can do that, but unfortunately I don't respond to thyroid. And my pulse and temps are already at a good level.

 

[lampofred]

That is bizarre but... one possible explanation is the lack of fat will speed up the digestion and therefore the absorption and likewise the energy hits you harder and faster. Beyond that I have no clue.

I found that skim milk is associated with prostate cancer but not full fat milk. So I think it's stimulating me in an excitatory, estrogenic way. That's why it feels so bad whereas coffee and tobacco stimulate in a way that feels good.

 

[Cirion]

I didn't do well with meat either. It seems like by toughing it out, I've forced myself to build a tolerance. Also, I'm planning on taking Chris's (and Ray's, for that matter) advice and drowning my meat in gelatin powder, which if you don't tolerate meat is probably mandatory (I'd gotten lazy about not doing this).

I don't think Peat says low fat is flat out better than whole milk, he just says that if you use whole milk to get all your protein needs it could be fattening. He personally drinks lots of milk so he drinks skim milk to avoid getting too much fat, is all.

I totally agree calcium is a necessary mineral, but that much calcium could actually be detrimental, I think people have gotten milk alkali syndrome with as low as 5 gram calcium a day, so I'd definitely be careful. Anything is dangerous in excess.

I'm trying to take a page from Runenight's experiences and stick to foods that actually work, not foods that "should" work. If OJ, potatoes, milk isn't working for you, it's probably time to switch things up then. I got really rigid with my foods and finally realized I needed a "reset" of my diet because it wasn't working. Runenight out of all the forum members seems to be faring better than almost all of us, and he has definitely violated some key Peat tenants such as eating peanut butter. Yet, he seems to be doing fantastic on it, so more power to him. I have no interest in experimenting with peanut butter, but to each their own, and if it works, who am I to argue?

PS - regarding OJ, I made my first batch of fresh cold pressed "home made" OJ this e vening. It has a distinctly different taste and seems more pleasant than store bought OJ... Richer, fuller taste.

 

[redsun]

I found that skim milk is associated with prostate cancer but not full fat milk. So I think it's stimulating me in an excitatory, estrogenic way. That's why it feels so bad whereas coffee and tobacco stimulate in a way that feels good.

Well see that's a bit dodgy because you were drinking I presume full fat milk beforehand, and the only difference is fat content. One has zero and the other has 8g. Associations means little and I highly doubt Peat would recommend low fat milk if he believed it could stimulate you in a bad way. Caffeine is much more stimulating then milk could ever be, and this means it is much more likely to stimulate you the wrong way(increasing estrogen and cortisol) if you didnt have the calories or nutrition to back it up compared to skim milk. Switching to skim milk could have revealed some degree of intolerance to milk that you have that you didnt notice from slower digesting whole milk.

Any who, if it doesnt work, it doesnt work.

 

[Cirion]

Well see that's a bit dodgy because you were drinking I presume full fat milk beforehand, and the only difference is fat content. One has zero and the other has 8g. Associations means little and I highly doubt Peat would recommend low fat milk if he believed it could stimulate you in a bad way. Caffeine is much more stimulating then milk could ever be, and this means it is much more likely to stimulate you the wrong way(increasing estrogen and cortisol) if you didnt have the calories or nutrition to back it up compared to skim milk. Switching to skim milk may could have revealed some degree of intolerance to milk that you have that you didnt notice from slower digesting whole milk.

Any who, if it doesnt work, it doesnt work.

I personally don't trust what they do to skim milk in addition to removing the fat - they also add in synthetic vitamins. I personally feel this could potentially promote allergenic responses. Then of course there's the whole anti-VA crowd, and synthetic VA is (probably) a lot more dangerous than naturally occurring VA. Plus there's the whole argument of "If you remove the fat, you make it a different food entirely" which, there's some merit to that argument. Let's also not forget that a vast majority of skim milk products are made from questionable sources to begin with - i.e., grain fed/hormone/antibiotic/pregnant cows. If you skim your own milk that might be different. Unfortunately, good milk skimmers are like 500$. I thought about buying one of those, but for now, I'm not interested in shelling out that money. Maybe if I was a bigger milk drinker.

 

[redsun]

I personally don't trust what they do to skim milk in addition to removing the fat - they also add in synthetic vitamins. I personally feel this could potentially promote allergenic responses. Then of course there's the whole anti-VA crowd, and synthetic VA is (probably) a lot more dangerous than naturally occurring VA. Plus there's the whole argument of "If you remove the fat, you make it a different food entirely" which, there's some merit to that argument. Let's also not forget that a vast majority of skim milk products are made from questionable sources to begin with - i.e., grain fed/hormone/antibiotic/pregnant cows. If you skim your own milk that might be different. Unfortunately, good milk skimmers are like 500$. I thought about buying one of those, but for now, I'm not interested in shelling out that money. Maybe if I was a bigger milk drinker.

Speaking of shelling out money... probably gone to check out dextrose powder soon. Somewhat of a substitute for glucose from starch, despite being pure glucose and zero nutrients, but it may be a better substitute to minimize gut interference from starch. Of course, I wouldnt just use dextrose entirely, but I could reduce starch and thereby reduce bulky foods in my diet while providing glucose at least temporarily. Not too mention the insulin response from glucose, great for the gym. Anyway, reason I mention is I know you have used it. Just curious, what was the taste, Did it have one?

 

[Cirion]

Speaking of shelling out money... probably gone to check out dextrose powder soon. Somewhat of a substitute for glucose from starch, despite being pure glucose and zero nutrients, but it may be a better substitute to minimize gut interference from starch. Of course, I wouldnt just use dextrose entirely, but I could reduce starch and thereby reduce bulky foods in my diet while providing glucose at least temporarily. Not too mention the insulin response from glucose, great for the gym. Anyway, reason I mention is I know you have used it. Just curious, what was the taste, Did it have one?

My favorite brand was cyto-carb. It mixed well, and had a reasonably pleasant sweet taste to it. Carbo gain is cheaper but doesn't mix well at all, it was annoying. When I was really healthy it was a staple of my diet, perhaps more than what is healthy, but it made me healthy, so who knows. Perhaps precisely because it was easy to digest. I also was having a lot of whey back then as well. And yeah, I would tend to use it around workouts. My ideal mix, I believe was 1 scoop of whey and 4 (or was it 8?) scoops of the cyto carb, but whatever resulted in about 25g protein and 100g carb (a 4:1 ratio, inspired by the research that shows a 4:1 carb protein ratio is probably the optimal ratio). Speaking of workouts, I'm thinking of starting to workout again. I got an email telling me they have a 40% off sale on the THOR e-books from anabolicmen, and thinking of buying it. I respect those guys a lot, since they pretty much are in line with what Peat says about things, with only a few disagreements, so I feel like their workout program will likely be very good - he makes a point to say that his program is not necessarily for those looking to make the quickest gains, but more for those looking to get the most anabolic benefit hormonally from working out. Although, in the process of doing that, will also see lots of gains, no doubt. I am thinking this step is going to be required for me to make a full hypothyroid recovery, I need all the anabolics I can get (but don't want to take AAS). I promise I'm not an advertisement for them LOL but just interested in what he has to say for programming. I've always known that programming for maximum androgens is the secret but I had never been able to do it on my own. Anytime I ever remotely pushed myself in the gym it ended up tanking my androgens in the long run.

 

[lampofred]

If I am caring this much about skim milk vs whole milk I think I'm losing sight of the forest for the trees.

It shouldn't be necessary to be this picky about diet to attain the calm, mitochondria-driven high energy state.

Something else has to change in a major way.

I'm just thinking out loud now. High CO2 is the key. But thyroid supplementation isn't the way forward for me since I've tried it already without enough of a result. I'm sure moving to a high altitude would do wonders but I can't do that for several more months at least. I've been seriously thinking about Buteyko but even though it worked for ecstatichamster, Buteyko coaches who are supposed to have high CPs don't really inspire me when I watch their videos on YouTube. Visionofstrength, on the other hand, was pretty inspiring. Euphoric but alert should be the goal of a great metabolism. But I can't shell out $1000 for a capnometer, that cost is crazy. And alas I've hit a dead-end.

Jeez, reading what I've just wrote, there is definitely something mildly hypomania-inducing about skim milk vs whole milk. Who would've thought I'd be this sensitive to such minor changes in diet.

 

[redsun]

My favorite brand was cyto-carb. It mixed well, and had a reasonably pleasant sweet taste to it. Carbo gain is cheaper but doesn't mix well at all, it was annoying. When I was really healthy it was a staple of my diet, perhaps more than what is healthy, but it made me healthy, so who knows. Perhaps precisely because it was easy to digest. I also was having a lot of whey back then as well. And yeah, I would tend to use it around workouts. My ideal mix, I believe was 1 scoop of whey and 4 (or was it 8?) scoops of the cyto carb, but whatever resulted in about 25g protein and 100g carb (a 4:1 ratio, inspired by the research that shows a 4:1 carb protein ratio is probably the optimal ratio). Speaking of workouts, I'm thinking of starting to workout again. I got an email telling me they have a 40% off sale on the THOR e-books from anabolicmen, and thinking of buying it. I respect those guys a lot, since they pretty much are in line with what Peat says about things, with only a few disagreements, so I feel like their workout program will likely be very good - he makes a point to say that his program is not necessarily for those looking to make the quickest gains, but more for those looking to get the most anabolic benefit hormonally from working out. Although, in the process of doing that, will also see lots of gains, no doubt. I am thinking this step is going to be required for me to make a full hypothyroid recovery, I need all the anabolics I can get (but don't want to take AAS). I promise I'm not an advertisement for them LOL but just interested in what he has to say for programming. I've always known that programming for maximum androgens is the secret but I had never been able to do it on my own. Anytime I ever remotely pushed myself in the gym it ended up tanking my androgens in the long run.

Perhaps glucose really is something special. Provide enough glucose, and everything runs better? Wouldnt doubt it, might have to test it. As for christopher, I sincerely respect that guy and what he has built so I dont doubt that his thor program would be good so I am sure it will do you good. He was the first fitness and nutrition guru I saw that I knew right away that, this guy literally knows what he's talking about and he doesnt just know, he knows knows. Anyway thanks for your advice, lets not derail this thread further lol. If need be theres always your threads.

If I am caring this much about skim milk vs whole milk I think I'm losing sight of the forest for the trees.

It shouldn't be necessary to be this picky about diet to attain the calm, mitochondria-driven high energy state.

Something else has to change in a major way.

I'm just thinking out loud now. High CO2 is the key. But thyroid supplementation isn't the way forward for me since I've tried it already without enough of a result. I'm sure moving to a high altitude would do wonders but I can't do that for several more months at least. I've been seriously thinking about Buteyko but even though it worked for ecstatichamster, Buteyko coaches who are supposed to have high CPs don't really inspire me when I watch their videos on YouTube. Visionofstrength, on the other hand, was pretty inspiring. Euphoric but alert should be the goal of a great metabolism. But I can't shell out $1000 for a capnometer, that cost is crazy. And alas I've hit a dead-end.

Jeez reading what I've just wrote, there is definitely something mildly hypomania-inducing about skim milk vs whole milk... Who would've thought I'd be this sensitive to such minor changes in diet.

When you think you are at a dead end, likely the best and smartest thing to do is to go back to the drawing board. In this case, perhaps a simple elimination-like diet similar to zero vitamin A diets. One protein source like say beef, one starch source like potatoes or rice, then a good sugar source you can tolerate. Sometimes simplicity can be the answer to what troubles you.

 

[ddjd]

@lampofred really interesting observation. Maybe we're somewhat similar but I've started drinking my coffee with 0.3% fat milk (skim milk) and as you say it's having this crazy stimulatory effect, but for me it feels very very dopaminergic. It doesnt really cross into mania but it's a profoundly noticeable androgenic(?) effect.

With regards to the point from @Cirion about additives in skim milk, in Germany at least there doesn't seem to be anything added to the milk, so I'm not sure if there's any other downside to this type of milk, apart from it being UHT milk