Skim Milk Caused A Surge Of Estrogen

[baccheion]

Unless consuming a high amount of milk, hormone content is said to be irrelevant. It's been suggested a majority of negative effects are due it slowing/blocking bowel transit. Increased water to dilute lactose leaves room for putrefaction and fermentation. I suppose gastric irritation could also result in a stress response, higher serotonin, etc.

I have a theory that adding digestive enzymes and probiotics when consuming grass-fed whole milk would decrease negative effects, as it then more closely resembles raw milk. In addition, milk would be consumed as a meal by itself (ie, after the last meal has digested and 4-5 hours before another).

And normalizing estrogen clearance, something which should be made satisfactory anyway.

 

[meatbag]

Unless consuming a high amount of milk, hormone content is said to be irrelevant. It's been suggested a majority of negative effects are due it slowing/blocking bowel transit. Increased water to dilute lactose leaves room for putrefaction and fermentation. I suppose gastric irritation could also result in a stress response, higher serotonin, etc.

I have a theory that adding digestive enzymes and probiotics when consuming whole milk would decrease negative effects, as it then more closely resembles raw milk. In addition, milk would be consumed as a meal by itself (ie, after the last meal has digested and 4-5 hours before another).

And normalizing estrogen clearance, something which should be made satisfactory anyway.

In a healthy person milks completely digested in the small intestine, which should be sterile:

Probiotic Use Is A Link Between Brain Fogginess, Severe Bloating
"When investigators looked further, they found large colonies of bacteria breeding in the patients' small intestines, and high levels of D-lactic acid being produced by the bacteria lactobacillus' fermentation of sugars in their food, says Dr. Satish S.C. Rao, director of neurogastroenterology/motility and the Digestive Health Clinical Research Center at the Medical College of Georgia at Augusta University."

I think its only hypotonic liquids which have been shown to raise serotonin

 

[baccheion]

In a healthy person milks completely digested in the small intestine, which should be sterile:

Probiotic Use Is A Link Between Brain Fogginess, Severe Bloating
"When investigators looked further, they found large colonies of bacteria breeding in the patients' small intestines, and high levels of D-lactic acid being produced by the bacteria lactobacillus' fermentation of sugars in their food, says Dr. Satish S.C. Rao, director of neurogastroenterology/motility and the Digestive Health Clinical Research Center at the Medical College of Georgia at Augusta University."

I think its only hypotonic liquids which have been shown to raise serotonin

Maybe they need some iodine to kill bacteria in the small intestines.

I mentioned probiotics and digestive enzymes, as raw milk contains certain strains/types. Adding them back puts it closer to real milk.

I'd imagine even just lactase being insufficient among most adults is enough to ruin digestion and create negative effects.

There was mention somewhere of milk sugar increasing insulin resistance. Maybe there's an enzyme that further breaks down such a sugar. Maybe it's even present in raw milk. There was also mention of milk digestion being associated with release of unstable fatty acids. Need more vitamin E?

 

[meatbag]

Maybe they need some iodine to kill bacteria in the small intestines.

I mentioned probiotics and digestive enzymes, as raw milk contains certain strains/types. Adding them back puts it closer to real milk.

I'd imagine even just lactase being insufficient among most adults is enough to ruin digestion and create negative effects.

There was mention somewhere of milk sugar increasing insulin resistance. Maybe there's an enzyme that further breaks down such a sugar. Maybe it's even present in raw milk. There was also mention of milk digestion being associated with release of unstable fatty acids. Need more vitamin E?

I've never tried raw milk to know if its better, currently I think pasteurized is better but its not something I know much about other than I think its better to eat food free of living bacteria. It seems like a lot of people fix problems with milk by using antibiotics or improving their thyroid function, but I know its a hotly debated issue.

I've never heard of the lactose, insulin resistance association or the fatty acid thing; do you have the studies/posts?

 

[baccheion]

I've never tried raw milk to know if its better, currently I think pasteurized is better but its not something I know much about other than I think its better to eat food free of living bacteria. It seems like a lot of people fix problems with milk by using antibiotics or improving their thyroid function, but I know its a hotly debated issue.

I've never heard of the lactose, insulin resistance association or the fatty acid thing; do you have the studies/posts?

The antibiotic action of iodine was for probiotics that colonized in the small intestines. It's more of a one-time/-cycle thing to maybe undo some of the damage.

I tasted raw milk once. It was delicious. Maybe grass-fed whole milk is similar.

I don't remember where I read about the fatty acids and milk sugar. In this case, the sugar referred to was likely galactose.

 

[ShotTrue]

You measured serum androgens and igf-1 before and after dairy and you saw a significant increase?
What form of dairy? Milk? Cheese? Pasteurized? Full fat?

I did not, just making a statement based off present knowledge.

 

[redsun]

No ***t. Milk is estrogenic, skim milk especially so.

Urinary excretion of sex steroid hormone metabolites after consumption of cow milk: a randomized crossover intervention trial

Exposure to exogenous estrogen through intake of commercial milk produced from pregnant cows. - PubMed - NCBI

Is it a similar story with cheese? Or are the estrogenic effects exclusive to milk?

 

[Cirion]

Is it a similar story with cheese? Or are the estrogenic effects exclusive to milk?

Cheese is bad news for me too personally. Bloats me up quite reliably.

 

[Inaut]

How’s your liver function @Cirion

 

[danishispsychic]

Doesn’t all of this come down to liver function and detoxification? If your liver is sluggish, it may be offensive but if it’s working efficiently.... shouldn’t have estrogenic effects in the body? Or am I viewing things far to simplistically?

i am with you on this thinking- i know i am a full Dr Peat stan, but i seriously doubt he is "wrong " on milk. i just wish the milk quality in the usa was better .... urgh. additionally , a lot of the guys i know that have " man boobs are vegan , soy boys and almond milk drinkers - and they drink their coffee with " non diary everything " so prob a pufa fest creating that , and smoking a lot of weed.

 

[danishispsychic]

ps. i got rid of all my breast lumps with iodine. :) might give that a try topically? ( in some coconut oil )

 

[Cirion]

I agree with you, mostly, on the whole quality milk thing, but even raw milk probably has high fernstrom ratio. But where I definitely disagree with Peat 100% is where he says (forget where) that even the random milk you buy in commercial stores is good for you.

 

[ShotTrue]

I agree with you, mostly, on the whole quality milk thing, but even raw milk probably has high fernstrom ratio. But where I definitely disagree with Peat 100% is where he says (forget where) that even the random milk you buy in commercial stores is good for you.

why is that?

 

[Cirion]

why is that?

Ignoring the whole Fernstrom ratio issue (which is a massive issue in and of itself) the purity and quality of milk, other than raw milk, is highly suspect between any or all of the following

- A1 milk (vs. A2)
- Pasteurization and/or homogenization process
- Potential hormones in the milk, some of which could even be stress hormones and not estrogen, due to how inhumanely that CAFO farm animals are treated
- Potential toxic additives like carrageenan gum in the milk, that by law they don't even have to report due to a certain threshold not being exceeded, and who knows what else (Haidut mentioned this is a danger in commercial milks)
- Milk degrades quickly with age. Probably even with pasteurization and whatnot.

Most of the above can be avoided with raw milk, especially freshly milked raw milk, except for the fernstrom ratio problems. So it's definitely an improvement over CAFO milk.

 

[ShotTrue]

Ignoring the whole Fernstrom ratio issue (which is a massive issue in and of itself) the purity and quality of milk, other than raw milk, is highly suspect between any or all of the following

- A1 milk (vs. A2)
- Pasteurization and/or homogenization process
- Potential hormones in the milk, some of which could even be stress hormones and not estrogen, due to how inhumanely that CAFO farm animals are treated
- Potential toxic additives like carrageenan gum in the milk, that by law they don't even have to report due to a certain threshold not being exceeded, and who knows what else (Haidut mentioned this is a danger in commercial milks)
- Milk degrades quickly with age. Probably even with pasteurization and whatnot.

Most of the above can be avoided with raw milk, especially freshly milked raw milk, except for the fernstrom ratio problems. So it's definitely an improvement over CAFO milk.

Thanks. I drink a lot of milk so I like to know

 

[milk_lover]

@ShotTrue I am like you; I like whole milk. Whole milk doesn't give me estrogenic symptoms. I think milk fat has a lot going for it to oppose estrogen, making milk more androgenic than estrogenic. Saturated fat itself is androgenic. Milk fat has some fat soluble vitamins. In case of indigestion or gum in the milk, milk fat can sooth the stomach and make the digestion a lot easier than skimmed milk. Even though milk fat has estrogen, it also has traces of thyroid, progesterone, DHEA, and cholesterol. And most importantly, the taste of whole milk is superior. I think people in general don't approach milk right. I eat it whole with my meals with no issue at all. And if I want to drink it by itself, I just drink no more than a cup. Keep in mind, I only drink whole goat and camel milk because A2 protein agrees with me better.

When I did 10 days antibiotics session a year ago, I could handle all types of milk with no issue. Just throwing this here.

 

[CLASH]

Unless consuming a high amount of milk, hormone content is said to be irrelevant. It's been suggested a majority of negative effects are due it slowing/blocking bowel transit. Increased water to dilute lactose leaves room for putrefaction and fermentation. I suppose gastric irritation could also result in a stress response, higher serotonin, etc.

I have a theory that adding digestive enzymes and probiotics when consuming grass-fed whole milk would decrease negative effects, as it then more closely resembles raw milk. In addition, milk would be consumed as a meal by itself (ie, after the last meal has digested and 4-5 hours before another).

And normalizing estrogen clearance, something which should be made satisfactory anyway.

I’m not so sure thats true about milk quanitity and hormone content. For some people the hormones build up over time as the half life may be longer than a day. If your using butter the hormone content is further increased, as it is for ice cream as well. A1 beta casein directly causes inflammation in some peoples intestines. The opiates in milk not only slow digestion but they lower dopamine allowing prolactin to increase unopposed. This in itself can cause water retention despite the constipation and the hormones. For some people its a non-issue, for others its a problem.

I tried using probiotics with milk, both in powdered form, fermented into milk, used to turn the milk into yogurt and used to turn the milk into kefir. These did not help me with my issues with milk (except kefir, the opiate effect of raw goats milk was pretty much non-existent when I drank raw goats kefir, the brain fog was another story though lol). I also tried raw milk, raw goat milk, pasteurized milk, A2 milk, homogenized milk, yogurts, cheeses, kefirs etc. I considered trying camel milk and human breast milk but I never made it there. I really wanted to be able to drink milk.... I also used antibiotics with the milk. Regardless, the opiate effect, which includes constipation and dopamine downregulation/ prolactin upregulation, was too apparent for me. I dont think my body is equipped with the proper enzymes to dispose of the opiate peptide. Btw, I am genetically lactase persistent, I can digest lactose just fine with no diarrhea or gas or anything. Milk of all type never gave me the runs, in fact it constipated the f*ck out me. The opiate effect was significantly worse for me than the hormonal. The worst the hormonal effect did was give me some back acne.

As for drinking milk by itself, I did the milk cure diet for 4 months pretty much. All i ate was milk and honey for 3 meals a day and the 4th meal was shellfish or some liver to balance out the nutrition. At one point I dropped the honey and just tried the milk. Eventually I had to add carrots because I didnt sh*t for 3 days at one point and usually I go 3x per day with no issue.

Btw probiotics were always a bad idea, they made me feel terrible, foggy and cold after using them for a while. I tried them on multiple occasions with milk and without. I took them orally and via enema. I tried them for extended periods of time and for short. I tried a variety of strains and species. They always made me feel wierd at best and terrible at worst. I just tried them again recently and again they made me feel terrible. Had to take some low dose antibiotics to clear them out after using them for a few days.

 

[baccheion]

I’m not so sure thats true about milk quanitity and hormone content. For some people the hormones build up over time as the half life may be longer than a day. If your using butter the hormone content is further increased, as it is for ice cream as well. A1 beta casein directly causes inflammation in some peoples intestines. The opiates in milk not only slow digestion but they lower dopamine allowing prolactin to increase unopposed. This in itself can cause water retention despite the constipation and the hormones. For some people its a non-issue, for others its a problem.

I tried using probiotics with milk, both in powdered form, fermented into milk, used to turn the milk into yogurt and used to turn the milk into kefir. These did not help me with my issues with milk (except kefir, the opiate effect of raw goats milk was pretty much non-existent when I drank raw goats kefir, the brain fog was another story though lol). I also tried raw milk, raw goat milk, pasteurized milk, A2 milk, homogenized milk, yogurts, cheeses, kefirs etc. I considered trying camel milk and human breast milk but I never made it there. I really wanted to be able to drink milk.... I also used antibiotics with the milk. Regardless, the opiate effect, which includes constipation and dopamine downregulation/ prolactin upregulation, was too apparent for me. I dont think my body is equipped with the proper enzymes to dispose of the opiate peptide. Btw, I am genetically lactase persistent, I can digest lactose just fine with no diarrhea or gas or anything. Milk of all type never gave me the runs, in fact it constipated the f*ck out me. The opiate effect was significantly worse for me than the hormonal. The worst the hormonal effect did was give me some back acne.

As for drinking milk by itself, I did the milk cure diet for 4 months pretty much. All i ate was milk and honey for 3 meals a day and the 4th meal was shellfish or some liver to balance out the nutrition. At one point I dropped the honey and just tried the milk. Eventually I had to add carrots because I didnt sh*t for 3 days at one point and usually I go 3x per day with no issue.

Btw probiotics were always a bad idea, they made me feel terrible, foggy and cold after using them for a while. I tried them on multiple occasions with milk and without. I took them orally and via enema. I tried them for extended periods of time and for short. I tried a variety of strains and species. They always made me feel wierd at best and terrible at worst. I just tried them again recently and again they made me feel terrible. Had to take some low dose antibiotics to clear them out after using them for a few days.

Are you saying magnesium was needed to balance out calcium to prevent constipation? What lowers/counters the opiate effect?

 

[olive]

What lowers/counters the opiate effect?

Caffeol quinine from light-medium roast coffee (further roasting destroys it) and naltrexone.

 

[ShotTrue]

@ShotTrue I am like you; I like whole milk. Whole milk doesn't give me estrogenic symptoms. I think milk fat has a lot going for it to oppose estrogen, making milk more androgenic than estrogenic. Saturated fat itself is androgenic. Milk fat has some fat soluble vitamins. In case of indigestion or gum in the milk, milk fat can sooth the stomach and make the digestion a lot easier than skimmed milk. Even though milk fat has estrogen, it also has traces of thyroid, progesterone, DHEA, and cholesterol. And most importantly, the taste of whole milk is superior. I think people in general don't approach milk right. I eat it whole with my meals with no issue at all. And if I want to drink it by itself, I just drink no more than a cup. Keep in mind, I only drink whole goat and camel milk because A2 protein agrees with me better.

When I did 10 days antibiotics session a year ago, I could handle all types of milk with no issue. Just throwing this here.

Nice. Exactly, the saturated fats contribute a lot to androgen production. I tried skim and felt noticeably worse and physically weaker, I could never go back.
All good points, I have yet to try A2 milk or other things than cow yet