Single Most Effective Thing That Could Work/worked For Anhedonia?

[Uselis]

Probably last significant health issue that I am currently wrestling with. Would be great to read some suggestions and personal experiences. Things that has most impact currently:

1. No starch. Though I run out of blood sugar quickly which leads to very bad temporary depression.

2. Complete abstinence from screens but I can't make myself go long enough to see if it has any real difference.

3. Very high caffeine doses (6 - 10 cups).

Thanks

 

[tankasnowgod]

Probably last significant health issue that I am currently wrestling with. Would be great to read some suggestions and personal experiences. Things that has most impact currently:

1. No starch. Though I run out of blood sugar quickly which leads to very bad temporary depression.

2. Complete abstinence from screens but I can't make myself go long enough to see if it has any real difference.

3. Very high caffeine doses (6 - 10 cups).

Thanks

You should probably be eating more sugar then. Also, are you eating enough fat, mostly saturated? Those two are really making no starch work for me this time.

Also, a serotonin antagonist may help. I have an old bottle of ritanserin, and it's been very helpful the past few months. Maybe a literal life saver.

 

[Uselis]

You should probably be eating more sugar then. Also, are you eating enough fat, mostly saturated? Those two are really making no starch work for me this time.

I run into one of the top problems on no starch: at certain point I can't feel fullness from sugar. High fat made me depressed as well. I was averaging 150g of dairy fat.

I briefly remember some of your post mentioning mental benefits of no starch. Is it still going on?

 

[Diokine]

I look at dopamine as essentially a modulator of the peripheral comprehension of your nervous system, in that increased dopamine activity offers the sensitivity required for longer range coherence of tissue. Increased coherence signals to your perceptual apparatus increased potential, this is a rough description of the satisfaction or elation from the continued efforts put into whatever task we are involved with.

The actual physical sensations of "energy" or "pleasure" come from the focal resonance induced by acetylcholine or spectral broadening offered by endorphins. I think that anhedonia represents a severe reduction in the sensitivity of these systems. Continual perception of stress or inability to synthesize new possible routes of activity can be analyzed by excessive "cholinergic" activity, this will eventually lead to serious fatigue and inability to manipulate subtle nervous tones required for delicate pleasure.

At the same time, disruption in the gut can contribute to excessive activation of the endocannabinoid system, which feeds back into the cholinergic system, leading to a disruptive loop. This will create nervous signals that the lower brain structures interpret as pain, and will result in increase of the endorphin systems to manage. This eventually results in fatigue and loss of pleasurable body feelings.

Pleasurable feelings are needed to attach emotional weight to activities, in the sense that "thoughts" don't feel good, the sense of elation is from dilation of capillaries, increased blood flow, increased CO2, better glucose utilization, etc.

Coffee will augment cholinergic activity, which can provide drive, but at the expense of pleasure since coffee contains potent opioid antagonists.

Obviously maintaining metabolism will be critical, but things that augment the natural endorphin systems might be able to help modulate. Something like kava or kratom might be effective, in low doses. I think low dose naltrexone might be effective also, though it is an opioid antagonist it may offer some increased feedback.

Dopamine agonists may be effective but without proper modulation from the endorphin system it is easy to push too hard, this can cause injury.

also all this is made up so don't believe it too strongly.

 

[tankasnowgod]

I run into one of the top problems on no starch: at certain point I can't feel fullness from sugar. High fat made me depressed as well. I was averaging 150g of dairy fat.

I briefly remember some of your post mentioning mental benefits of no starch. Is it still going on?

You mention dairy fat...... are you eating any solid food? That seems to be a part of it, too.

I could feel full back in my paleo days, simply eating beef with peppers and onions, a steak, or eggs and bacon, no carbs needed. So I don't think there is something unique about starch. Beef, cheese, and juice or a pepsi is just even more satiating than those low carb meals were.

Yeah, It's certainly helped mentally. Overall, I've been feeling really good the past few weeks, even with all the insanity in the world, and every objective reason to feel awful and down.. I think going no starch might take some tweaking by whoever undertakes it, but once you figure it, it works great. It seems like it would work great long term too, as there are no glaring holes, like low carb/carnivore/vegan/low fat/fruitarian diets have if done for any length of time.

 

[Lokzo]

My top 3 would be:

1. 9-MBC

2. Bromantane

3. St John's Wort

 

[Lokzo]

I look at dopamine as essentially a modulator of the peripheral comprehension of your nervous system, in that increased dopamine activity offers the sensitivity required for longer range coherence of tissue. Increased coherence signals to your perceptual apparatus increased potential, this is a rough description of the satisfaction or elation from the continued efforts put into whatever task we are involved with.

The actual physical sensations of "energy" or "pleasure" come from the focal resonance induced by acetylcholine or spectral broadening offered by endorphins. I think that anhedonia represents a severe reduction in the sensitivity of these systems. Continual perception of stress or inability to synthesize new possible routes of activity can be analyzed by excessive "cholinergic" activity, this will eventually lead to serious fatigue and inability to manipulate subtle nervous tones required for delicate pleasure.

At the same time, disruption in the gut can contribute to excessive activation of the endocannabinoid system, which feeds back into the cholinergic system, leading to a disruptive loop. This will create nervous signals that the lower brain structures interpret as pain, and will result in increase of the endorphin systems to manage. This eventually results in fatigue and loss of pleasurable body feelings.

Pleasurable feelings are needed to attach emotional weight to activities, in the sense that "thoughts" don't feel good, the sense of elation is from dilation of capillaries, increased blood flow, increased CO2, better glucose utilization, etc.

Coffee will augment cholinergic activity, which can provide drive, but at the expense of pleasure since coffee contains potent opioid antagonists.

Obviously maintaining metabolism will be critical, but things that augment the natural endorphin systems might be able to help modulate. Something like kava or kratom might be effective, in low doses. I think low dose naltrexone might be effective also, though it is an opioid antagonist it may offer some increased feedback.

Dopamine agonists may be effective but without proper modulation from the endorphin system it is easy to push too hard, this can cause injury.

also all this is made up so don't believe it too strongly.

Funny you mention Low Dose Naltrexone, I just decided to have 2mg this morning.

 

[Quelsatron]

Oysters were very good for me with anhedonia/low libido

 

[YourUniverse]

What are your calories?

 

[Uselis]

You mention dairy fat...... are you eating any solid food? That seems to be a part of it, too.

I could feel full back in my paleo days, simply eating beef with peppers and onions, a steak, or eggs and bacon, no carbs needed. So I don't think there is something unique about starch. Beef, cheese, and juice or a pepsi is just even more satiating than those low carb meals were.

Yeah, It's certainly helped mentally. Overall, I've been feeling really good the past few weeks, even with all the insanity in the world, and every objective reason to feel awful and down.. I think going no starch might take some tweaking by whoever undertakes it, but once you figure it, it works great. It seems like it would work great long term too, as there are no glaring holes, like low carb/carnivore/vegan/low fat/fruitarian diets have if done for any length of time.

Only solid food I ate during these no starch stretches was eggs. I probably made mistake of not eating meat cause I couldn't get decent quality. I have access now to quality lamb so maybe that is the key: some chewing/bulk over liquid only diet.

I definitely agree that starch on it's own is very unappealing. Taste as blank as it can get. Only good amount of salt and butter makes it tasty.

 

[tankasnowgod]

Only solid food I ate during these no starch stretches was eggs. I probably made mistake of not eating meat cause I couldn't get decent quality. I have access now to quality lamb so maybe that is the key: some chewing/bulk over liquid only diet.

I definitely agree that starch on it's own is very unappealing. Taste as blank as it can get. Only good amount of salt and butter makes it tasty.

I guess it might vary, but I would think even average store quality meat is of decent quality. Curious if you had the same quality standards on starch? I would think that even the lowest grade meat that you can find would still be superior to the best quality starch (except maybe potatoes). Just like mass produced coconut oil is going to be so much better than top quality expeller pressed virgin soybean oil.

I certainly agree that a mostly liquid only diet can bring on it's own problems. Meat, some fruit, eggs and cheese do help to keep the diet mostly solid food.

 

[Uselis]

I guess it might vary, but I would think even average store quality meat is of decent quality. Curious if you had the same quality standards on starch? I would think that even the lowest grade meat that you can find would still be superior to the best quality starch (except maybe potatoes). Just like mass produced coconut oil is going to be so much better than top quality expeller pressed virgin soybean oil.

I certainly agree that a mostly liquid only diet can bring on it's own problems. Meat, some fruit, eggs and cheese do help to keep the diet mostly solid food.

Only starch I ate were potatoes indeed and it was from small time farmers. So theoretically it suppose to be high quality.

You of opinion that even store bought meet would have more nutrition than garden grown potato?

 

[tankasnowgod]

Only starch I ate were potatoes indeed and it was from small time farmers. So theoretically it suppose to be high quality.

You of opinion that even store bought meet would have more nutrition than garden grown potato?

Not sure. I think potatoes are easily the best quality starch available, and a good food in general. But even Hans noticed benefits when he dropped them from his diet.

I have eaten a lot of potaoes myself, but getting rid of them seems to have been a good choice so far. They weren't the quality that you mentioned, so that could be an issue. But if the issue is starch feeding bacteria, creating more endotoxin and serotoinin, then I would think average store brought meat would be a better choice. Seems to be panning out in my case. I guess you would have to experiment yourself.

 

[Uselis]

Not sure. I think potatoes are easily the best quality starch available, and a good food in general. But even Hans noticed benefits when he dropped them from his diet.

I have eaten a lot of potaoes myself, but getting rid of them seems to have been a good choice so far. They weren't the quality that you mentioned, so that could be an issue. But if the issue is starch feeding bacteria, creating more endotoxin and serotoinin, then I would think average store brought meat would be a better choice. Seems to be panning out in my case. I guess you would have to experiment yourself.

One thing I do notice easily is how after potatoes (or any starch meal) I become relaxed but senses are on mute. I don't hear as much, I don't smell as much and feel as much. Almost like I am on mute to whats happening around me.

Does it sound like seratonin excess?

 

[Fidelio]

NSI-189

 

[Lokzo]

One thing I do notice easily is how after potatoes (or any starch meal) I become relaxed but senses are on mute. I don't hear as much, I don't smell as much and feel as much. Almost like I am on mute to whats happening around me.

Does it sound like seratonin excess?

Wow!!! Yes!! I’ve noticed this too.

They also kill my libido too.

 

[Uselis]

Wow!!! Yes!! I’ve noticed this too.

They also kill my libido too.

I glanced through your thread but not fully. You use any form of starch to sustain such activity you're participating in?

 

[Lokzo]

I glanced through your thread but not fully. You use any form of starch to sustain such activity you're participating in?

I eat mostly Oats, Fruit, White rice and sourdough bread, they all seem to make me feel fine.

potatoes on the other hand....

I am about to do a post on it that's how angry potatoes make me LOL

 

[Uselis]

I eat mostly Oats, Fruit, White rice and sourdough bread, they all seem to make me feel fine.

potatoes on the other hand....

I am about to do a post on it that's how angry potatoes make me LOL

View attachment 19433

Can't wait! They absolutely destroy my libido as well. Lol on anger. That's the only food that induces passive aggressive feelings inside me. Also the fact that I drink upwards 6 + coffee cups probably means dopamine is seriously lowered after eating it. On no starch stretches if I eat meat I crave at most 2 cups.

 

[youngsinatra]

vitamin A, D, K2, whole food choline, a favorable calcium:phosphate ratio, novasol liquid curcumin with low dose n-3 FA, bluelight blocking glasses when the sun goes down, ensuring non-irritated gut health - for me probiotics helped a ton in this regard, after trying all the raw carrot, mushroom, activated charcoal and antibiotic routes.
I think optimizing sleep was the biggest contributor to lifting anhedonia for me.