Simple Copper Complexes Are A Powerful Alternative To Antibiotics

[Elderflower j58]

So sorry for your loss Yerrag .

 

[managing]

Oh, I'm so sorry to hear of this!!!! Aww. You cared for her very well and thoroughly, she was lucky to have you with your knowledge and love close by her. So sorry about your mom.

QFT.

 

[yerrag]

Oh, I'm so sorry to hear of this!!!! Aww. You cared for her very well and thoroughly, she was lucky to have you with your knowledge and love close by her. So sorry about your mom.

So sorry for your loss Yerrag .

QFT.

Thank you all. At 93, my mom has lived a full life. She had eight children, and is an example already of a woman who lived long having the residual progesterone from having so many children. Still, she would have need thyroid, pregnenolone, and progesterone if she were to get help to keep her protected. I was able to apply Ray Peat principles on bringing her back from a drug-induced catatonic state, to be able to continue her healing at home. She improved remarkably, with her skin tone being that of a much younger person, and her edematous condition in her ankles and knees went away. Yet she still went back to the hospital a few more times, because her urinary continence made UTI a problem. Subjected to IV antibiotics, she began to have more problems with her swallowing ability. And was hospitalized a few times also for this. The healing process was interrupted many times, and this general weakening came about that lead to her body giving up.

Through her, my eyes were opened to the wider possibilities of people living longer by the simple application of Ray Peat principles. Something this simple and coherent surely beats the many newfangled treatments that cost so much more, and quite possibly do little more, or even much less, than what Ray Peat has been recommending. Yet, it is only us, a fringe culture, that would be likely to benefit from his ideas. His ideas require people to "perceive, think, and act," and many people of equal means and abilities, cannot bring themselves about to do so. Touche.

 

[Regina]

Sorry, Liubo, my mom did not survive the health crisis this time. She would have benefited from taking copper acetate, but there were complications from IV administration due to her weakening veins, which may have been the result of the high use of IV during the high frequency of hospital admissions in the recent past (I wondered if using enema for rehydration would have been a safer alternative. Has anyone ever tried this?)

At 93, she was still healthy, taking no prescription drugs. But UTI was her her main vulnerability. Frequent occurrences and being treated each time with antibiotics, which to me was the only choice available, led to the weakening of her brain, and to the degrading of her ability to swallow well. Past hospitalizations were either due to urinary tract infection or aspiration pneumonia.

Applying Ray Peat principles benefited her greatly and I had hoped to see her regain control of her urinary sphincter and esophageal sphincter.

She had already regained the tone of her knee and the swelling due to soft tissue calcification was gone. She hasd no edema that has been characteristic of the elderly.

She would have benefited from thyroid, pregnenolone, progesterone, cyproheptadine, and copper acetate, and I'm sure a few more including adaptogens such as cascara sagrada.

She would have lived to a hundred if I had started earlier to go beyond the use of antibiotics for her UTI issues. If I had learned of copper acetate a few months earlier and applied it to her and it worked, her late twilight years would be more of enjoyment than of suffering, it would have been a good case story of applying Ray Peat and things learned in this forum.

I hope we can continue to try using copper acetate in this group, and to see if it can replace the use of antibiotics, especially where UTI is concerned. @Nikki I wonder if copper acetate could help your dad, as you use MesoSilver and may entertain the use of something related.

Yerrag,
I'm so sorry about your loss.

 

[Luann]

You use the H2O2 to speed it up, right? Wouldn't it be safer to leave that out and let it take a few days rather than a few hours?

Yeah, probably. Anyway I haven't messed around with the copper acetate for a while, no matter how antibacterial it may be, it tastes nasty and gives me fatigue, even before using hydrogen peroxide to make it.

 

[Amazoniac]

Facts you don’t know about copper cookware - Copper Cookware Info and Guide

--
A lot of attention is given to bacterial overgrowth that produces excess of hydrogen, but the sulfur part is overlooked.
If the guys from tissue mineral analysis are correct, sulfur opposes calcium and copper directly.

Microbial pathways in colonic sulfur metabolism and links with health and disease

Similar to the host, gut microbes require sulfur inputs and, because of their active metabolism and tremendous number, are likely to play a major role in the metabolism of luminal sulfur. Consequently, gut microbes are key players in determining the balance of beneficial to detrimental effects of sulfur-containing compounds (Table (Table1).1).

organic sulfur-containing compounds including cysteine, taurocholic acid, and mucin provide a more efficient source for sulfide production than inorganic sulfate (Florin, 1991; Levine et al., 1998), with meat being a particularly important source (Magee et al., 2000).

Koch wrote extensively about minimizing animal protein when weakened because of "sulfhydryl groups" from bacterial metabolism and their toxicity in excess. When weakened the excess shouldn't be much.
I suppose that this is involved in bile and liver problems. Cysteine and taurine keep supplying sulfur to a possible overgrowth: it should start as stress beyond capacity to withstand > weakened metabolism > weak digestion and motion > excess of undigested food > overgrowth > deranged protein metabolism > inability to detoxify increases > stress hormones rise again > weaker metabolism and so on.

It's quite likely that trying to eradicate this type of overgrowth with flowers of sulfur will only make matters worse. All concentrated substances are somewhat toxic and are not appealing for most life forms. However when the sulfur spreads throughout the intestines it stops being a concentrated substance and the eradication comes mostly from a selective encouragement for the microbes that thrive on it. On top of that Suchzord posted some time ago a link about it being more effective in gram-positive than negative bacteria.

That's why these minerals have to be combined with something else to make them less appealing and more effective and safer.
Taking straight mineral powders is risky in my opinion.

@michael94 @Sol

--
@yerrag, sorry about the update. Massive respect for taking matters into your own hands, but now take some time to rest, it must have been exhausting!

 

[yerrag]

Yerrag,
I'm so sorry about your loss.

Thanks Regina.

Facts you don’t know about copper cookware - Copper Cookware Info and Guide

...
--
@yerrag, sorry about the update. Massive respect for taking matters into your own hands, but now take some time to rest, it must have been exhausting!

Thanks Amazoniac. Good info you shared!

 

[Kyle M]

It's quite likely that trying to eradicate this type of overgrowth with flowers of sulfur will only make matters worse. All concentrated substances are somewhat toxic and are not appealing for most life forms. However when the sulfur spreads throughout the intestines it stops being a concentrated substance and the eradication comes mostly from a selective encouragement for the microbes that thrive on it. On top of that Suchzord posted some time ago a link about it being more effective in gram-positive than negative bacteria.

I have never felt good after taking FoS, nor noticed any less bloating from foods that give me bloating. Here's an idea, pack a gelatin capsule with FoS so that it is delivered much more concentrated further into the system, around the lower stomach or upper small intestine. Thoughts?

 

[Amazoniac]

I have never felt good after taking FoS, nor noticed any less bloating from foods that give me bloating. Here's an idea, pack a gelatin capsule with FoS so that it is delivered much more concentrated further into the system, around the lower stomach or upper small intestine. Thoughts?

I'm spheric- skeletal- I don't think that it's going to work as expected. It should disperse fast and you'll have the free mineral available. Everything is safer if there's no conspirat- constirpa- if the intestines are moving fast.

Intense stress activates epigenetic processes... | Ray Peat Forum
It's expected that bacterial infections are part of the pattern that holds people back despite eating a good diet. Their toxins should poison everything that supports higher organizations. I suppose that copper is included among many others such as iodine and vitamin A, and it's their excess that's needed to overcome the pattern. That's why many people advocate iodine in higher amounts to deal with those things.

There's still the possibility of supplementing these through the skin:
Energin - Custom, Liquid Dietary Supplement With B Vitamins

 

[Amazoniac]

Unfortunately methionine, which is majorly involved in detoxification also contains sulfur and can be interfered if the ability to digest proteins is impaired:
Vitamins B1 & B2 Are Required For Estrogen Inactivation By Liver

--

Facts you don’t know about copper cookware - Copper Cookware Info and Guide

Cough.

 

[Amazoniac]

Hamburger Hash

--
Cooling Inflammation: Cure for Inflammatory Diseases

The Achille’s heal of biofilms is the ionic interaction between the acidic polysaccharide and divalent cations. This interaction can be attacked by both small fragments of similar acid oligosaccharides, by organic acids that can solubilize the cations, e.g. acidic acid in vinegar, or by chelators, such as EDTA. All of these treatments can remove the calcium, magnesium and iron that is essential to the matrix. Small molecules, such as glucosamine, chondroitin sulfate fragments, heparin, and pectin, can disrupt biofilms. Molecules that bind to heparin or nucleic acids, e.g. berberine, quinine (tonic), methylene blue, should also be effective in disrupting biofilms. [Note that the similarity between amyloid production and biofilms, means that treatments should overlap.] Lactoferrin is effective, since it both binds iron and binds to acidic polysaccharides via its heparin-binding domains.

 

[Kyle M]

I'm spheric- skeletal- I don't think that it's going to work as expected. It should disperse fast and you'll have the free mineral available. Everything is safer if there's no conspirat- constirpa- if the intestines are moving fast.

I have multiple bowel movements throughout the day, I don't think my intestines move slowly. I'm pretty sure that isn't the cause of my SIBO.

 

[Amazoniac]

I have multiple bowel movements throughout the day, I don't think my intestines move slowly. I'm pretty sure that isn't the cause of my SIBO.

I wasn't implying that, I was mentioning that trying those things is safer if the intestines are moving as they should.

--
Many studies are done in a similar way to this, there was no development, it's just a trauma on animals, so they lack the pattern that slowly established. It's common to ligate parts of the intestines, or other traumatic procedures and then feed animals in a certain way and deduce that given things are good for that condition.
Speaking of developmental processes and methionine, I remember reading this in Max Gerson's book:

With the tremendous amount of experimental work done on lipotropic agents, and their effectiveness in dietary fatty liver in animals, it is only natural that clinicians should turn to these substances in the treatment of fatty liver; however, the only type of fatty liver that choline (the most important of the lipotropic substances) can cure is the one due to a choline deficiency. It is likely that at least some of the fatty livers in man are due to choline deficiency, but in fatty livers of prolonged infection or those due to toxins, no deficiency of choline in the diet can be postulated, and therefore, no beneficial effect from choline can be expected.

If this was an experiment done in labs, the animals would be subjected to any sort of trauma and supplying those things would give a positive outcome. But in people, there are different patterns that developed after some time: like our fortune teller says, the context matters and is often ignored.
I don't have much to offer for you except that if the problem developed all of the sudden, it should be more clear when and why it happened and acute measures might work. In chronic development, most of these acute measures should be ineffective, if not negative, and the more you force to solve the issue directly, the more you complicate things. It's just a possibility and my humble opinion.

 

[yerrag]

Some good news about copper acetate in use finally!

I read somewhere about Ray putting some copper solution into his greying hair and having it turn darker the next day or two. I thought I'd try copper acetate and rub it against the hair on my scalp. That was just two days ago. I put about 20 drops or about 1 ml per day. Although it's just two days, I felt the effect.

But not in my hair turning darker though. I had for the longest time been dealing with wounds on my scalp that would form scabs but these scabs would never flake off and return to normal scalp skin. It would always be healing but never fully healing. I had been to a dermatologist and she couldn't help me. I had given up on fixing it long ago.

Yesterday I sensed the wounds were actually healing. Today, as I was having my hair cut, I touched these wounds again and they have gotten far more into the stage of closing up and drying. While I can still feel some perturbation left, I am crossing my fingers if the wounds would fully resolve and heal in a few more days.

I'll check back on Sunday and let you know.

 

[managing]

Some good news about copper acetate in use finally!

I read somewhere about Ray putting some copper solution into his greying hair and having it turn darker the next day or two. I thought I'd try copper acetate and rub it against the hair on my scalp. That was just two days ago. I put about 20 drops or about 1 ml per day. Although it's just two days, I felt the effect.

But not in my hair turning darker though. I had for the longest time been dealing with wounds on my scalp that would form scabs but these scabs would never flake off and return to normal scalp skin. It would always be healing but never fully healing. I had been to a dermatologist and she couldn't help me. I had given up on fixing it long ago.

Yesterday I sensed the wounds were actually healing. Today, as I was having my hair cut, I touched these wounds again and they have gotten far more into the stage of closing up and drying. While I can still feel some perturbation left, I am crossing my fingers if the wounds would fully resolve and heal in a few more days.

I'll check back on Sunday and let you know.

Interesting. Can you elaborate on "wounds"? What is the origin of these?

 

[yerrag]

Interesting. Can you elaborate on "wounds"? What is the origin of these?

I don't know the term for them. It's not a boil because boils are rather large and puffy. But they're not externally generated. It could be called a skin eruption that exposes the inner layer, and forms a scab which doesn't really heal, and forms scales. Every time I remove the scale it produces new scales. It's not a dandruff as it's thicker. Is there a term for it? Is it psoriasis I don't really know.

It's not conspicuous since hair can still grow out of the spot where the scales form. But occasionally they become more pronounced and I had to scratch them off, and then they would become more visible. Just when I thought they're gone, they come back.

If the copper acetate is having an effect, then my guess is that there must be a resistant bacterial colony that has taken root. My guess is it could have come from a week-long survival trip I had with a group of friends in the Smokey Mountains in Tennessee. Could be that I swam in a a lake or pond that harbored such bacteria, and took root This was already twenty years ago, but I'm just guessing.

 

[managing]

I don't know the term for them. It's not a boil because boils are rather large and puffy. But they're not externally generated. It could be called a skin eruption that exposes the inner layer, and forms a scab which doesn't really heal, and forms scales. Every time I remove the scale it produces new scales. It's not a dandruff as it's thicker. Is there a term for it? Is it psoriasis I don't really know.

It's not conspicuous since hair can still grow out of the spot where the scales form. But occasionally they become more pronounced and I had to scratch them off, and then they would become more visible. Just when I thought they're gone, they come back.

If the copper acetate is having an effect, then my guess is that there must be a resistant bacterial colony that has taken root. My guess is it could have come from a week-long survival trip I had with a group of friends in the Smokey Mountains in Tennessee. Could be that I swam in a a lake or pond that harbored such bacteria, and took root This was already twenty years ago, but I'm just guessing.

This is interesting. Keep us updated. I've been wondering if it would be effective against warts . . .

 

[yerrag]

This is interesting. Keep us updated. I've been wondering if it would be effective against warts . . .

I've come across using apple cider vinegar for warts, and have been meaning to try it but never did as it wasn't an immediate concern for me. A google search would yield many sites such as How to Use Apple Cider Vinegar for Warts

I'd prefer this over the dermatologist burning my warts. More gentle. Less costly.

Maybe it's just the acetic acid doing its work with ACV, with copper acetate, it may also work given its nature of being half-acetate, and its copper half may make it more effective. I think it would be worth a try.

 

[yerrag]

Some good news about copper acetate in use finally!

I read somewhere about Ray putting some copper solution into his greying hair and having it turn darker the next day or two. I thought I'd try copper acetate and rub it against the hair on my scalp. That was just two days ago. I put about 20 drops or about 1 ml per day. Although it's just two days, I felt the effect.

But not in my hair turning darker though. I had for the longest time been dealing with wounds on my scalp that would form scabs but these scabs would never flake off and return to normal scalp skin. It would always be healing but never fully healing. I had been to a dermatologist and she couldn't help me. I had given up on fixing it long ago.

Yesterday I sensed the wounds were actually healing. Today, as I was having my hair cut, I touched these wounds again and they have gotten far more into the stage of closing up and drying. While I can still feel some perturbation left, I am crossing my fingers if the wounds would fully resolve and heal in a few more days.

I'll check back on Sunday and let you know.

it's 12 days and I'm still working on my scalp. I don't think it's working. I may see all the wounds disappear one time, but I'dgive it some more time to be sure. Then they would surface again.

Perhaps this condition isn't treatable topically. I'm going to at some time try taking proteolytic enzymes such as Serrapeptase for this condition, but now now. Still need to work on my lead toxicity first, for which I'm undergoing my second and last 3-month set. My skin condition, this scalp wound and keloids on chest and forearm, can wait as it's cosmetic.

As far as copper acetate goes, I couldn't find any one to try them out. They would have to be UTI sufferers, and mostly women. Nine of my sisters and friends are so inclined.

 

[Waynish]

Anyone recommend a copper complex already on the market?