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Simple Copper Complexes Are A Powerful Alternative To Antibiotics

Discussion in 'Scientific Studies' started by haidut, May 26, 2017.

  1. yerrag

    yerrag Member

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    I put 10 drop of this copper acetate solution in a glass of water with 1000 mg of Emergen-C.

    Now I remember something said about iron and Vitamin C, as well as about copper and vitamin C. That it enhances the absorption of iron, and that it inhibits the absorption of copper.

    Given that the intake of copper acetate is meant for it to combat bacteria, and not for the copper to be absorbed by the body, I'm still thinking that I'm antagonizing the copper acetate by taking it in with vitamin C, or am I?
     
  2. Liubo

    Liubo Member

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    Hey @yerrag. Is there hydrogen peroxide left over when the copper acetate is fully formed, so that you will ingest some when you take the copper?
     
  3. yerrag

    yerrag Member

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    I think there's left over hydrogen peroxide. I only assumed the vinegar I used had 5% acetic acid, but it may be a wrong assumption. I should have used a vinegar with a label of 5% acetic acid, instead of a vinegar that came from a farmer's market with no labels.

    I'm going to do repeat the same process, this time with store bought vinegar with a 5% acetic acid label, and assuming the label isn't laying, I expect there to be more copper converted to copper acetate, and less hydrogen peroxide left over in solution. If the reaction went 100% to completion, all of the 12.5 grams of copper would be consumed. But only 1.75g of copper was used, which was less than a sixth of 100% completion.

    I don't expect 100% completion, but I was expecting a lot more than a sixth of it. At some point, there would be equilibrium, but not at 100%.

    I guess the limiting ingredient was the vinegar, so the vinegar would have less leftover reactant than the copper or the hydrogen peroxide. I removed the copper, but the hydrogen peroxide stayed in solution. I don't know if heating the mix of hydrogen peroxide and vinegar to near boiling would have caused any of the two reactants (H2O2 and acetic acid) to be reduced though.
     
  4. Liubo

    Liubo Member

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    That's what's keeping me from doing it this way, isn't peroxide like the reason we avoid PUFA and stuff lol. Maybe that is too simplistic but I've been making the acetate with just lemon juice or vinegar. It doesn't get as blue

    Only a sixth of the way completed sounds frustrating. Good luck running it a second time
     
  5. yerrag

    yerrag Member

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    I made another batch, everything else being the same except for the vinegar being from Heinz "all natural" distilled white vinegar, 5% acidity. The copper that was used in the reaction was less at 1.3g. In the previous batch, 1.75g was used.

    I think the difference could be due to instrument error, or the coconut vinegar I used had higher acidity, or both. But with these results, I think it may be safe to say that with a a half-liter input of each of the two liquid reagents - 3% hydrogen peroxide and vinegar of 5% acidity, one could use copper wire with a weight of about 3-3.5 grams, to make a copper acetate solution.

    @Liubo, I don't know how much hydrogen peroxide is left, or whether it would be a danger. To be on the safe side, I'd take about 10 drops of the solution and mix it with a glass of water of juice, and drink it. At that dilution, I hope you can feel more at ease.
     
  6. managing

    managing Member

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    Hydrogen peroxide degrades very rapidly to water if you exposed to oxygen. So if you leave it open and/or stir vigorously, I think you would neutralize any peroxide pretty quickly. For good measure, make sure anything you mix it in is well-aerated too. The reaction is virtually instant. Peroxide is very unstable stuff.
     
  7. yerrag

    yerrag Member

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    That's good to know. Thanks!
     
  8. Liubo

    Liubo Member

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    Nice!

    You're the best.
     
  9. Liubo

    Liubo Member

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    I've been making copper in a mug with just a bit of vinegar, letting the pipe sit for 18 hours until the liquid is blue, then drinking it in coffee. Hope this works as an antibacterial
     
  10. yerrag

    yerrag Member

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    Well, for the past 2 days I've been using the copper acetate solution I made on my mom.

    She probably had a mild case of aspiration that easily leads to pneumonia. But because the last two hospitalizations she had were also from aspiration, and that her body has been severly battered by the use of IV antibiotics, and since there are few antibiotics left that are resistant to the bacteria in the cultures, it makes little sense to subject my mom to another round of ER procedures and then on to therapy once again with IV antibiotics, as well as the hospital preference for nebulization with harmful adrenergic and serotonic drugs.

    So I elected to leave her at home, with me treating her. She is on dextrose IV to keep her blood sugar in good range, since she isn't eating. She is well supplied before in nutrients, so the electrolytes and the fat soluble vitamins as well as b-vitamins are fine.

    She refuses to eat, is somewhat delirious, eyes opened, not sleeping, and moving her arms all over. She has irregular heart rate, has high heart and breathing rate. Oxygen saturation is around 92-93 most of the time.

    I'm giving her 5 drops of the copper solution solution I made 2x a day, under the tongue for it to reach the lympathics. And giving her 10 drops of this solution in a 2ml NSS solution through nebulization through the nose, twice a day as well.

    She is also on Tyromix (thyroid), StessNon (pregnenolone), and Progestene (progesterone). I would start with a drop of thyroid, and two hours later a drop of pregnenolone, then 2 hours later a drop of thyroid, and then followed by 2 hours of progesterone. I just started the hormones today, and will observe to see if I can make another series for the latter half of the day.

    She is also on aromatherapy with oil of cloves (or Eugenol).

    I'm monitoring her vitals. The curve tracing is very erratic indicating an irregular heart rate. The oxygen saturation hasn't been a problem, and I am refraining from bag breathing as she may get stressed out. But the thyroid should help to keep her blood CO2 well supplied, I hope.

    I also hope the copper acetate is enough to help her body fight off bacteria, both in her lungs, as well as in her urinary tract, as she has been having recurring UTI infections that require hospitalization.

    I really have little choice but to try this step. My mom has already told us she doesn't want to end up on feeding tubes, but feeding her is a problem when she easily aspirates. Hopefully, not going to the hospital and treating at home will restore her vitality and she will not aspirate anymore. But just the same, I have to make her food intake revolve around incorporating gelatin into everything she eats and drinks. This would keep her well protected by glycine, as well as keep her away from recurrence of aspiration.

    Will let you know how the copper acetate is helping.
     
  11. Liubo

    Liubo Member

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    Please do. So sorry your mom isn't well, and I think you're doing right by her by giving her these natural solutions as much as you can.
     
  12. EIRE24

    EIRE24 Member

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    I am having kidney and urinary tract problems at the moment. The doctor wants me to take an anti biotics but I wonder if I may be able to do this with copper?
     
  13. yerrag

    yerrag Member

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    Thanks, Liubo. I really don't have much of a choice really.

    The study shared by Haidut gives me much hope and confidence in this as a possible solution. My mom's situation can be considered more critical, but I'm still willing to give this a shot. In your case, as far as the urinary problems go, not knowing your kidney situaion, I think it would also be worth a try. If it doesn't work, you can still fall back on using antibiotics.
     
  14. Liubo

    Liubo Member

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  15. Liubo

    Liubo Member

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    Kyle were you able to come up with an amount of copper that reacts in the space of say 8 hours, or as long as it takes for solution to turn blue?

    Haidut, I have not seen the point of eating copper foods like liver and oysters because they have enough iron in them, I thought the iron would cancel out much of the copper they contain. Am I wrong, and maybe in fact it's the iron that won't be retained because of the high copper content?
     
  16. Kyle M

    Kyle M Member

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    I forgot about it. I have high quality copper speaker wire, and can drop some in some vinegar, do you have a suggestion on how I do it? I can drop it in the spec after a day or so.
     
  17. Liubo

    Liubo Member

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    Ok so what I did, was put the copper into vinegar with a near equal amount of H202 to the vinegar. Usually I let some of the copper peek out into the air as this seems to speed up the reaction, although maybe this forms cu oxide rather than acetate.

    And after 4 - 8 hours the color blue starts to be seen
     
  18. Kyle M

    Kyle M Member

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    You use the H2O2 to speed it up, right? Wouldn't it be safer to leave that out and let it take a few days rather than a few hours?
     
  19. yerrag

    yerrag Member

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    Sorry, Liubo, my mom did not survive the health crisis this time. She would have benefited from taking copper acetate, but there were complications from IV administration due to her weakening veins, which may have been the result of the high use of IV during the high frequency of hospital admissions in the recent past (I wondered if using enema for rehydration would have been a safer alternative. Has anyone ever tried this?)

    At 93, she was still healthy, taking no prescription drugs. But UTI was her her main vulnerability. Frequent occurrences and being treated each time with antibiotics, which to me was the only choice available, led to the weakening of her brain, and to the degrading of her ability to swallow well. Past hospitalizations were either due to urinary tract infection or aspiration pneumonia.

    Applying Ray Peat principles benefited her greatly and I had hoped to see her regain control of her urinary sphincter and esophageal sphincter.

    She had already regained the tone of her knee and the swelling due to soft tissue calcification was gone. She hasd no edema that has been characteristic of the elderly.

    She would have benefited from thyroid, pregnenolone, progesterone, cyproheptadine, and copper acetate, and I'm sure a few more including adaptogens such as cascara sagrada.

    She would have lived to a hundred if I had started earlier to go beyond the use of antibiotics for her UTI issues. If I had learned of copper acetate a few months earlier and applied it to her and it worked, her late twilight years would be more of enjoyment than of suffering, it would have been a good case story of applying Ray Peat and things learned in this forum.

    I hope we can continue to try using copper acetate in this group, and to see if it can replace the use of antibiotics, especially where UTI is concerned. @Nikki I wonder if copper acetate could help your dad, as you use MesoSilver and may entertain the use of something related.
     
  20. Liubo

    Liubo Member

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    Oh, I'm so sorry to hear of this!!!! Aww. You cared for her very well and thoroughly, she was lucky to have you with your knowledge and love close by her. So sorry about your mom.
     
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