haidut

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The anti-bacterial effects of some metals have been known for millenia. Silver, Gold, copper and even nickel have been used by many ancient civilizations to sterilize water or even disinfect wounds. Of these metals, copper has been getting some renewed attention lately due to its ability to eradicate strains such as MRSA in hospitals even when used at very low concentrations.
This new study found that combining a metal such as copper, sodium, nickel or silver with an organic acid like acetate or benzoate dramatically increases the antibacterial effects of the combination and is able to quickly kill most bacteria, with very few (if any) side effects to healthy cells. As far as I can see copper acetate and copper benzoate were the most effective combinations and were effective in concentrations as little as 1uM, which is achievable with a dose of 3mg-4mg copper acetate or copper benzoate, and those doses are physiological. Now, copper acetate and copper benzoate are hydrolyzed in the stomach when ingested, so when taken orally they may help mostly for things like H. pylori. However, when applied topically they may stay in systemic circulation long enough to have a pronounced systemic antibacterial and anti-viral effect. So, dissolving them in DMSO/ethanol solution and applying to the skin may achieve the equivalent of a very hefty dose of antibiotics like ampicillin or even tetracycline.

The highly synergistic, broad spectrum, antibacterial activity of organic acids and transition metals : Scientific Reports
A Possible Alternative to Antibiotics : ATS

"...Numerous alternatives to antibiotics are already being tested by researchers around the world. Two of these are the use of metals such as silver, zinc, and copper (which were used in ancient Egypt and Greece for treating infection and purifying water sources), and the use of organic acids such as food acid (haidut: acetate, benzoate) that is used as a preservative in the food industry.
In their research, Lewinson and his team combined organic acids and metals at a low concentration, and found that the combination is extremely effective in eradicating pathogenic bacteria such as cholera, salmonella, and pseudomonas, as well as eliminating bacteria that attack agricultural crops such as tomatoes, melons, and apples.
Combining these two types of substances is far more effective than using each one separately,” said Lewinson. “Called ‘synergistic inhibition’, this combination enables the use of extremely low concentrations of metals and food acids for preserving food and spraying crops.” He added that lowering the concentration of the substances has significant positive implications for the environment and human health."
 

Amazoniac

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Last edited:

schultz

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This reminded me I need to get some more copper for my goats... :writer:

Goats need a lot of copper, so much that if you house sheep with them and the sheep use the goat minerals they can get copper toxicity. When goats become deficient in copper their hair loses its colour.

Based off this post, I am wondering if copper is somehow integral to their immune system.
 

Rand56

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However, when applied topically they may stay in systemic circulation long enough to have a pronounced systemic antibacterial and anti-viral effect. So, dissolving them in DMSO/ethanol solution and applying to the skin may achieve the equivalent of a very hefty dose of antibiotics like ampicillin or even tetracycline.

Am I getting a whiff of another haidut product coming soon? lol
 

haidut

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This reminded me I need to get some more copper for my goats... :writer:

Goats need a lot of copper, so much that if you house sheep with them and the sheep use the goat minerals they can get copper toxicity. When goats become deficient in copper their hair loses its colour.

Based off this post, I am wondering if copper is somehow integral to their immune system.

Well, without proper functioning of cytochrome C (which is a copper dependent enzyme), the immune cells cannot do much. So, metabolism is vital to immune function and also for not getting an infection to start with.
 

haidut

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Am I getting a whiff of another haidut product coming soon? lol

A lot of people keep asking about a copper supplement for general metabolic purposes or hair color restoration, so not I can hit multiple birds with one stone :):
 

Kyle M

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Are any of those salts available to the public? I would try putting them in gelatin capsules to see if they can kill upper GI bacteria.
 

haidut

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All the copper products I found are a combo with some amino acid (chelated).

Copper sulfate and copper chloride are also available in some products.
 

haidut

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Are any of those salts available to the public? I would try putting them in gelatin capsules to see if they can kill upper GI bacteria.

You can make copper acetate pretty easily as per Peat's recipe - dump a penny in a shotglass and fill to the top with wine vinegar and leave for a week. By the end of the week you will have a full glass of copper acetate but not sure how much each drop will provide.
 

Kyle M

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You can make copper acetate pretty easily as per Peat's recipe - dump a penny in a shotglass and fill to the top with wine vinegar and leave for a week. By the end of the week you will have a full glass of copper acetate but not sure how much each drop will provide.

I have access to a biochemistry lab so maybe I'll futz around in there and see what I can find. I know we work with copper-containing enzymes.

Also, if I try the penny-vinegar thing, I might be able to do a dosing table. If copper acetate has an absorbance spectrum, I can quantify the concentration spectrophotometrically and give a decent idea of how much will be in a shot glass after a set amount of time.
 

haidut

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I have access to a biochemistry lab so maybe I'll futz around in there and see what I can find. I know we work with copper-containing enzymes.

Also, if I try the penny-vinegar thing, I might be able to do a dosing table. If copper acetate has an absorbance spectrum, I can quantify the concentration spectrophotometrically and give a decent idea of how much will be in a shot glass after a set amount of time.

Excellent, if you can quantify the amount of copper acetate from the home made version that would be great. I know many people who use that home made version as their sole copper source and are currently blindly dosing since they don't know how much copper is inside.
 

Luann

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Yes please kyle

There is some copper acetate brewing in my cupboard for a few days now lol
 

Kyle M

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What's the common method that most people use? The more precise I can copy that, the better dose I can make. Volume and type of vinegar on the penny I suppose is the only factor.
 

Dragon

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Just weigh the penny before and after its soak. The difference is the mass of copper in solution.

Without a scale, one could use a known length of copper wire. Say, one inch of 12-gauge solid copper from Romex house wiring.

The weight-per-length of copper wire is readily available in tables in handbooks, and on the web.
 

Kyle M

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Just weigh the penny before and after its soak. The difference is the mass of copper in solution.

Without a scale, one could use a known length of copper wire. Say, one inch of 12-gauge solid copper from Romex house wiring.

The weight-per-length of copper wire is readily available in tables in handbooks, and on the web.
Good point, I have some copper stereo wire.
 

Dragon

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Also, if one does have a little mg scale, using a (clean) file on the penny (or wire) and putting a known weight of the -dust- in the vinegar would give 100x faster dissolution.

The more surface-area, the faster it dissolves, the warmer the solution, the faster it dissolves.

One could also use a knife (carefully) to make high surface-area shavings.
 

Dragon

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oh, true enough.

but I predict very inconsistent concentration results between different people, using different vinegars, and pennies with different degrees (and composition) of surface coatings (dirt, corrosions, et al).

oh, and BEWARE NEW PENNIES. They are NOT all copper like the old ones.
 

Tarmander

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Isn't the inside of a penny mostly zinc under its copper coating? I would go with pure copper wire I think.
 
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