haidut

Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Messages
17,922
Location
USA / Europe
The anti-bacterial effects of some metals have been known for millenia. Silver, Gold, copper and even nickel have been used by many ancient civilizations to sterilize water or even disinfect wounds. Of these metals, copper has been getting some renewed attention lately due to its ability to eradicate strains such as MRSA in hospitals even when used at very low concentrations.
This new study found that combining a metal such as copper, sodium, nickel or silver with an organic acid like acetate or benzoate dramatically increases the antibacterial effects of the combination and is able to quickly kill most bacteria, with very few (if any) side effects to healthy cells. As far as I can see copper acetate and copper benzoate were the most effective combinations and were effective in concentrations as little as 1uM, which is achievable with a dose of 3mg-4mg copper acetate or copper benzoate, and those doses are physiological. Now, copper acetate and copper benzoate are hydrolyzed in the stomach when ingested, so when taken orally they may help mostly for things like H. pylori. However, when applied topically they may stay in systemic circulation long enough to have a pronounced systemic antibacterial and anti-viral effect. So, dissolving them in DMSO/ethanol solution and applying to the skin may achieve the equivalent of a very hefty dose of antibiotics like ampicillin or even tetracycline.

The highly synergistic, broad spectrum, antibacterial activity of organic acids and transition metals : Scientific Reports
A Possible Alternative to Antibiotics : ATS

"...Numerous alternatives to antibiotics are already being tested by researchers around the world. Two of these are the use of metals such as silver, zinc, and copper (which were used in ancient Egypt and Greece for treating infection and purifying water sources), and the use of organic acids such as food acid (haidut: acetate, benzoate) that is used as a preservative in the food industry.
In their research, Lewinson and his team combined organic acids and metals at a low concentration, and found that the combination is extremely effective in eradicating pathogenic bacteria such as cholera, salmonella, and pseudomonas, as well as eliminating bacteria that attack agricultural crops such as tomatoes, melons, and apples.
Combining these two types of substances is far more effective than using each one separately,” said Lewinson. “Called ‘synergistic inhibition’, this combination enables the use of extremely low concentrations of metals and food acids for preserving food and spraying crops.” He added that lowering the concentration of the substances has significant positive implications for the environment and human health."
 

Amazoniac

Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2014
Messages
8,140
Location
Not Uganda
Last edited:

schultz

Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2014
Messages
2,632
This reminded me I need to get some more copper for my goats... :writer:

Goats need a lot of copper, so much that if you house sheep with them and the sheep use the goat minerals they can get copper toxicity. When goats become deficient in copper their hair loses its colour.

Based off this post, I am wondering if copper is somehow integral to their immune system.
 

Rand56

Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2013
Messages
437
However, when applied topically they may stay in systemic circulation long enough to have a pronounced systemic antibacterial and anti-viral effect. So, dissolving them in DMSO/ethanol solution and applying to the skin may achieve the equivalent of a very hefty dose of antibiotics like ampicillin or even tetracycline.

Am I getting a whiff of another haidut product coming soon? lol
 

haidut

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Messages
17,922
Location
USA / Europe
This reminded me I need to get some more copper for my goats... :writer:

Goats need a lot of copper, so much that if you house sheep with them and the sheep use the goat minerals they can get copper toxicity. When goats become deficient in copper their hair loses its colour.

Based off this post, I am wondering if copper is somehow integral to their immune system.

Well, without proper functioning of cytochrome C (which is a copper dependent enzyme), the immune cells cannot do much. So, metabolism is vital to immune function and also for not getting an infection to start with.
 

haidut

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Messages
17,922
Location
USA / Europe
Am I getting a whiff of another haidut product coming soon? lol

A lot of people keep asking about a copper supplement for general metabolic purposes or hair color restoration, so not I can hit multiple birds with one stone :):
 

Kyle M

Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2016
Messages
1,407
Are any of those salts available to the public? I would try putting them in gelatin capsules to see if they can kill upper GI bacteria.
 

haidut

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Messages
17,922
Location
USA / Europe
All the copper products I found are a combo with some amino acid (chelated).

Copper sulfate and copper chloride are also available in some products.
 

haidut

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Messages
17,922
Location
USA / Europe
Are any of those salts available to the public? I would try putting them in gelatin capsules to see if they can kill upper GI bacteria.

You can make copper acetate pretty easily as per Peat's recipe - dump a penny in a shotglass and fill to the top with wine vinegar and leave for a week. By the end of the week you will have a full glass of copper acetate but not sure how much each drop will provide.
 

Kyle M

Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2016
Messages
1,407
You can make copper acetate pretty easily as per Peat's recipe - dump a penny in a shotglass and fill to the top with wine vinegar and leave for a week. By the end of the week you will have a full glass of copper acetate but not sure how much each drop will provide.

I have access to a biochemistry lab so maybe I'll futz around in there and see what I can find. I know we work with copper-containing enzymes.

Also, if I try the penny-vinegar thing, I might be able to do a dosing table. If copper acetate has an absorbance spectrum, I can quantify the concentration spectrophotometrically and give a decent idea of how much will be in a shot glass after a set amount of time.
 

haidut

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Messages
17,922
Location
USA / Europe
I have access to a biochemistry lab so maybe I'll futz around in there and see what I can find. I know we work with copper-containing enzymes.

Also, if I try the penny-vinegar thing, I might be able to do a dosing table. If copper acetate has an absorbance spectrum, I can quantify the concentration spectrophotometrically and give a decent idea of how much will be in a shot glass after a set amount of time.

Excellent, if you can quantify the amount of copper acetate from the home made version that would be great. I know many people who use that home made version as their sole copper source and are currently blindly dosing since they don't know how much copper is inside.
 

Luann

Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2016
Messages
1,427
Yes please kyle

There is some copper acetate brewing in my cupboard for a few days now lol
 

Kyle M

Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2016
Messages
1,407
What's the common method that most people use? The more precise I can copy that, the better dose I can make. Volume and type of vinegar on the penny I suppose is the only factor.
 

Dragon

Member
Joined
Sep 9, 2016
Messages
64
Location
On The Beach...in Mexico
Just weigh the penny before and after its soak. The difference is the mass of copper in solution.

Without a scale, one could use a known length of copper wire. Say, one inch of 12-gauge solid copper from Romex house wiring.

The weight-per-length of copper wire is readily available in tables in handbooks, and on the web.
 

Kyle M

Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2016
Messages
1,407
Just weigh the penny before and after its soak. The difference is the mass of copper in solution.

Without a scale, one could use a known length of copper wire. Say, one inch of 12-gauge solid copper from Romex house wiring.

The weight-per-length of copper wire is readily available in tables in handbooks, and on the web.
Good point, I have some copper stereo wire.
 

Dragon

Member
Joined
Sep 9, 2016
Messages
64
Location
On The Beach...in Mexico
Also, if one does have a little mg scale, using a (clean) file on the penny (or wire) and putting a known weight of the -dust- in the vinegar would give 100x faster dissolution.

The more surface-area, the faster it dissolves, the warmer the solution, the faster it dissolves.

One could also use a knife (carefully) to make high surface-area shavings.
 

Dragon

Member
Joined
Sep 9, 2016
Messages
64
Location
On The Beach...in Mexico
oh, true enough.

but I predict very inconsistent concentration results between different people, using different vinegars, and pennies with different degrees (and composition) of surface coatings (dirt, corrosions, et al).

oh, and BEWARE NEW PENNIES. They are NOT all copper like the old ones.
 

Tarmander

Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2015
Messages
3,570
Isn't the inside of a penny mostly zinc under its copper coating? I would go with pure copper wire I think.
 
Similar threads
Thread starter Title Forum Replies Date
Hans How to increase dopamine and lower serotonin with this simple, yet effective stack and food recipe Articles & Scientific Studies 33
Hans Simple diet modifications to maximize puberty Articles & Scientific Studies 73
johnwester130 The Ultiamte Simple Mouthwash With Glycine Powder Oral Health 39
Jib Simple Granola Recipes 23
haidut Simple, Non-invasive Test For Adrogenic / Estrogenic Tone Scientific Studies 8
haidut Simple Metabolic Change Sufficient To Turn "normal" Cells Into "cancer" Scientific Studies 3
haidut Simple Heating Of Tumor Often Leads To A Rapid And Complete Cure Scientific Studies 23
M A Simple Diet Ask For Help or Advice 3
T Revisiting Simple Thyroid Signals: Unpinchable Skin & Grooves Across The Neck Metabolism 11
M Simple Red Light Imaging Will Replace MRI Red Light, Infrared, LLLT 8
T Simple Antioxidant Smoothie I Make Daily (dairy Free) Recipes 0
A Simple Syrup And Salt Are Incredible Additions To The Diet Ask For Help or Advice 105
jzeno Guide To Ray Peat: Simple, User-friendly Guide To Applying Lessons Learned From The Research Of RP Experiments 24
haidut Simple Intestinal Antiseptic As A Cure For Rheumatoid Arthritis (RA) Scientific Studies 67
A Simple Syrup. Something Special Ask For Help or Advice 5
haidut Simple Body Stretching Reduces Tumor Size By More Than 50% Scientific Studies 40
Mito Saturated Fat Is More Metabolically Harmful For The Human Liver Than Unsaturated Fat Or Simple Sugar Articles & Scientific Studies 50
K Optimal Simple Farming Diet Macros & Micros 1
haidut Schizophrenia Treatment Could Be As Simple As Reducing Ammonia Scientific Studies 37
johnwester130 Simple Newbie Guide To Peat's Work : Logs 35
D Simple Diets Diet 40
tankasnowgod Simple, Easy And Free Way To Reduce Blue Light Exposure (and Increase Red) Red Light, Infrared, LLLT 33
ivy Slow Metabolism Or Simple Estrogen Dominance? Metabolism 8
L A Simple Introduction To Hypothyroidism Thyroid and Hormones 10
johnwester130 Is It Too Simple To Blame Everything On Fats And Oils ? Health 6
Makrosky Is There Any Simple Way To Know If You Store A Lot Of Glycogen Or Not ? Blood Sugar 12
gilson dantas Pregnenolone Versus Estrogen - A Very Simple Question Metabolism 49
mayweatherking Can Someone Explain In Simple Terms The Effects Of Protein And Sugar On Blood Sugar/Insulin Levels Ask For Help or Advice 9
haidut Simple, Non-invasive Method For Measuring PUFA Status Scientific Studies 12
O "Simple" Foods Vs. Traditional Diet (metabolism) Discussing Dietary Models 3
T simple (or not-so-much) intro Meet & Greet 6
N "Lowering Stress Is Simple: EAT SUCROSE." Ray Peat Quotes 5
Koniec [Wiki] Simple Answers Thread WIP ==> FAQ Wiki-Page Ray Peat Topics 24
charlie Italian doctor may have found simple cure for MS Articles & Scientific Studies 4
Velve921 Copper protective against EMF? Minerals 0
Y Copper should be dominant over Zinc for optimal health? Ask For Help or Advice 36
Velve921 Is this copper bottle beneficial? Minerals 4
M Calcium and potassium increase retention of copper / magnesium and selenium depletes it? Ask For Help or Advice 41
M Metallothioneine - is this causing my copper and zinc issue ? Ask For Help or Advice 13
Grapelander Copper: The Substance of Venus Minerals 2
ddjd Homemade mitosynergy copper (copper 1) Does it really work?? Ask For Help or Advice 13
M What could cause that my zinc and copper levels stay low now matter how much of it I’m getting? Ask For Help or Advice 9
M Zinc : Copper - finding the right ratio progress Thread Ask For Help or Advice 45
D Theory, which may explain copper toxicity/deficiency/low cerruloplasmin Minerals 86
M How much zinc/copper for very active and sexual active people? Ask For Help or Advice 20
M My histamine intolerance / hair loss is indeed a zinc / copper issue Ask For Help or Advice 21
Jon2547 Iron and copper deposits in the brain Scientific Studies 2
M Is ionized copper and zinc (zinc sulphate) absorbed easier ? Ask For Help or Advice 7
Cloudhands Oysters, copper, graying and allergies Blood Work, Labs 39
M Zinc and copper intravenous? Ask For Help or Advice 19

Similar threads

Top