Should we avoid eating tropical fruits/oils if we aren't living in a tropical environment?

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I don't think Pufa is to blame here either, bc CO hardly has any. In fact I think ghee/butter and tallow contain an equal amount of pufas, if not more.
Besides even less than 1 tsp CO would hardly give me pufas.
I haven't made fries in beef tallow, maybe I should try it a time. (I don't have anything to deepfry in and I also find it a bit costly to waste so much tallow for deep frying.)
 

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Dutchie

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1 Tbsp tallow has 0.5grams of pufas as well.
If we have to worry about any milligram of pufa, we can't eat anything anymore.

I heard various places in Belgium still fry in beef tallow, maybe I should plan a trip to Belgium 🤔😉
 
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1 Tbsp tallow has 0.5grams of pufas as well.
If we have to worry about any milligram of pufa, we can't eat anything anymore.

I heard various places in Belgium still fry in beef tallow, maybe I should plan a trip to Belgium 🤔😉
I was never worried about it, as the saturated fat covers it. It just never made me feel too good and Ray Peat said ghee is better. No trips to Belgium is necessary, just try them at home!
 

Dutchie

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I was never worried about it, as the saturated fat covers it. It just never made me feel too good and Ray Peat said ghee is better. No trips to Belgium is necessary, just try them at home!
I have the impression it's the mct's somehow, which is odd bc goat dairy fat has some mct's as well but doesn't give me this trouble.
Maybe it's better balanced with other fatty acids🤔

Well...the Belgian border is not far away from where I live...and it would save me the frying hassle and cleanup afterwards. ;)
 
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I have the impression it's the mct's somehow, which is odd bc goat dairy fat has some mct's as well but doesn't give me this trouble.
Maybe it's better balanced with other fatty acids🤔

Well...the Belgian border is not far away from where I live...and it would save me the frying hassle and cleanup afterwards. ;)
Go then! They are worth it!
 
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Dr. B

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just a tablespoon of coconut oil has 0.8g PUFA? thats odd, i thought that was the PUFA per 100g total fat. even dairy fat for example can be 3g to 6g PUFA per 100g total fat. based on your post coconut oil would have 5.71g PUFA per 100g total fat, so even more PUFA than 100% grass fed dairy
 
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Dr. B

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We are living in a tropical environment, no matter if you live in the tropics or Alaska. Your body should be 98.6 degrees, that's pretty tropical.

I think in modern living we are even more tropical as per our climate controlled everything. I think people of the past could eat more PUFA in cold climates and actually not get affected as much as modern humans. Almost always colder, more sleep during winter because fuel is expensive (wood etc) and probably minimal movement unless hunting. Was it optimal? No, but they knew that and did the best they could.

Atom Bergstrom talks about cold water fish doing better with less PUFA too, it affects them even though they need it. Interesting topic.

Read the book "Nourishing Traditional Diets" by Sally Fallon, it's pretty awesome.

pineaplpe and bananna contain serotonin. coconut oil, even with low PUFA, has some sort of 5ar inhibiting compounds that arent present in dairy fat or beef tallow. someone asked Ray about them and his answer was just "i think the body adapts with repeated intake" or something.

our internal temperature should be high, pufa intake low, but this is possible without using specialized tropical food products. the external environment in many places wouldnt work for coconuts, pineapples and banana. northern europeans were able to get low pufa by sticking to red meat and dairy products, even in a very cold environment.

if youre in a tropical environment the external temperature will be high, there might also be certain effects from being closer to the water, and the amount of sunlight will be high. those factors could negate the potential toxic effects of something like coconut, banana or pineapple. the serotonin, maybe even the allergenicity, 5ar inhibition or anything else could potentially be mitigated, compared to eating those items in the winter, or even inside your home in a 70 degree temperature. in one podcast Ray also discussed older, lower metabolic people moving towards places like Florida because the head and humidity helped make up for their poor metabolism. Florida apparently had more elderly people there than the norm due to its climate.
I will say that there are things we may not be considering. The strong sun in the tropics may be having an antagonistic affect on some of the unfavorable compounds in tropical food, the interaction with the external sun and its biochemical modification of the body may be an avenue by which there may be a mismatch with these foods. Deuterium content of food is also something to consider but that a big can of worms with good threads dedicated to it here and on Jack Kruse Forum.

which foods have high deuterium, is that something we want more of or less of? what should be done regarding deuterium?
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Coconut oil has some PUFA in it, but it’s high saturated fat offsets it, but why not just avoid the PUFA’s all together by using using lard or ghee when we can. The last couple of times I have made French Fries, I did what originally McDonald’s did to make them famous, and fried my French fries in beef tallow and oh my goodness, they were the best fries I have ever tasted, even cold hours later they were just as good AND still crispy! I am over the coconut oil, unless I need a neutral flavor, like in my chocolate cake. Until lately I used tons of it for several years.

lard has some of the highest PUFA, unless its maybe like 100% milk fed or meat fed pigs... i think one of the Amish farms had 100% milk fed pigs.
im not sure about ghee but even 100% grass fed dairy will have about 3g PUFA per 100g total fat. if ghee somehow removes the pufa that might be the best stand alone fat source. since regular milk fat, beef tallow will have at least 3% pufa. i thought coconut oil was like 0.8g PUFA per 100g fat for some reason but based on your post it would be around 5g PUFA per 100g total fat. which is still low and in the same ballpark as beef tallow and dairy.
What about the oxidized cholesterol in ghee? It seems a lot of high heat cooking with animal products, unless it's a quick sear is actually pretty unhealthy. All sorts of compounds are formed that get progressively more dangerous. Also inhalation if these compounds is also dangerous.


I don't endorse Michael Greger he's a PETA shill but he has some good info regardless

Also advanced glycation end products are formed but a lot of the amino acids in meat are anti glycative so that at least has a partial remedy.

When you fry a starch in animal fat you get oxidized cholesterol AND acrylamide. Sometimes ok, but as a staple it's risky.

I used to be a raw vegan part of the reason was because of things like this being an overlooked issue. I found ways to incorporate meat safely but it's still a risk of one isn't careful.

I'd have to check with Ray but I think Ray refers a lot to conventional things when calling them "not good." Like conventional cheap crisco CO.

Organic has many more standards than conventional along with cold pressed or expeller pressed.

Aajonus Vonderplanitz recommend raw butter, I think more raw animal products (not all raw) is preferable. And if you start raw, you have more room to cook with it before oxidiation takes place. Sometimes the product is oxidized even before it hits the pan.

I'm sure animals who feed on their natural diets have more resilient fats. But something to think about.

what about pasteurized milk? 165 degrees for 15 seconds vs 145 degrees for 30 minutes which is better? do both methods create lots of oxidized cholesterol?
what about cooked ground beef/burgers, and organic whey protein? whey protein is made from pasteurized milk, and then also freeze dried to turn it into a powder.
milks labelled 'low temp pasteurized' in the US are actually just 145 degrees for 30 minutes, the legal requirement for it. it seems like 145 degrees at 30 mins could damage the milk more than 165 degrees for 15 seconds? also the ultra pasteurized is i believe 280 degrees for 2 or 3 seconds.
what should be the protein source for 100g+ protein, besides gelatin? the sources ive narrowed down with the least issues seem to be good quality yogurt, probably A2 better. grass fed A2 milk. and possibly grass fed whey protein.

isnt oxidation an issue with amino acids as well as fats? whey protein has very little fat, usually 1g fat per 20g protein, alongside 2g carbs. but even with that amount of fat it usually has like 60mg cholesterol, which is probably all oxidized?


I don't think Pufa is to blame here either, bc CO hardly has any. In fact I think ghee/butter and tallow contain an equal amount of pufas, if not more.
Besides even less than 1 tsp CO would hardly give me pufas.
I haven't made fries in beef tallow, maybe I should try it a time. (I don't have anything to deepfry in and I also find it a bit costly to waste so much tallow for deep frying.)

i dont want to use water, even filtered or bottled water. something that worked excellently was, putting the beef patties in the air fryer, putting sliced potatoes on the bottom, then the fat that drips out of the beef patties, cooks the potato slices in beef fat. another option is to cook lamb or beef in the pan, without adding any additional oils. there should be enough fat in the meat to cook itself. then once the meat is cooked, or even alongside the meat, cook the potato slices in the beef fat.
 
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Dr. B

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I was never worried about it, as the saturated fat covers it. It just never made me feel too good and Ray Peat said ghee is better. No trips to Belgium is necessary, just try them at home!
1 Tbsp tallow has 0.5grams of pufas as well.
If we have to worry about any milligram of pufa, we can't eat anything anymore.

I heard various places in Belgium still fry in beef tallow, maybe I should plan a trip to Belgium 🤔😉

theres still a few places using beef tallow. supposedly buffalo wild wings fries their chicken and fries in beef tallow. but their fried chicken tastes horrible, IMO, and french fries taste very average. keep in mind mcdonalds uses some sort of beef flavoring, i think its natural or vegetarian beef flavoring, in their fries. but other fries like five guys or popeyes taste better than mcds or buffalo wild wings.

i think popeyes also uses a mix of beef tallow and soybean oil for all their fried products. I remember looking at their nutrition facts one time and their french fries and fried chicken had a very high amount of saturated fat, like 50% or more of the total fat was saturated, which wouldnt be possible unless they were using something like beef tallow or palm oil. coconut oil would have too strong of a flavor, and chicken fat wouldn't be able to maintain such a high ratio of SFA.
smashburger uses a mix of beef fat and canola oil for their fries, maybe fried chicken too.
 
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“The reason linseed oil and fish oil were used for making varnishes and paints was that they are "drying oils," reacting with oxygen to polymerize and harden. The physical and chemical propertiess of the oils are fairly well understood, and among the polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFA) the omega -3 fatty acids react most easily with oxygen. Heat, light, and moisture increase their spontaneous interactions with oxygen, and besides polymerizing, these oils produce a variety of reactive particles, including acrolein, which combine with other substances, such as cellular proteins and DNA, with highly toxic effects. At low temperatures and low oxygen concentrations these oils are not highly reactive. Fats that harden at low temperatures (as saturated fats do) wouldn't be convenient for organisms that live in a cool environment, and so organisms regulate the type of fat they synthesize according to the temperature of their tissues. The fact that certain types of polyunsaturated fatty acids function nicely in fish, worms, and insects, doesn't mean that they are ideal fats for mammals.“ -Ray Peat
 

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