Should Peatarians Consider Antihistamines?

Mastemah

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Yep, thats the idea!

He also likes cyproheptadine which is easier to get in Canada....
 

Kray

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Mastemah said:
Yep, thats the idea!

He also likes cyproheptadine which is easier to get in Canada....

Hi, new to the forum. Found this thread on antihistamines. In the year since this discussion, are (Peat's, I assume you were referring) the top two antihistamines still the doxylamine succinate and cyproheptadine, and are these available OTC in the US? Are they safe to take daily for allergy issues?

I'm confused about Benadryl, which I have been using. I thought Peat was ok with it but are you saying no? Thanks for any help to figure this out-
 

Kray

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Mastemah said:
He likes doxylamine succinate. In addition to its anti histamine effects when combined w B6 it helps morning sickness. Why is this cool? The theory on morning sickness is that it's too much serotonin in the small intestine causing spasms :)

Hi Mastemah,

Thanks for your input on doxylamine succinate. Have you, or anyone out there had a positive experience with doxylamine succinate for allergies? If so, I'd like to hear from you, good or bad results?
 

Kray

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Charlie said:
I got mine from my doctor. He had me on another histamine that is hard on the liver. So I kindly asked him to switch it out and he said no problem. He also prescribed me ondansetron and I take a smidge of that every other day or so.

I just read from another thread on Peat-preferred antihistamines that doxylamine succinate is a good one. Just for caution, can you provide the name of the one you stopped taking?

Mastemah said:
He likes doxylamine succinate. In addition to its anti histamine effects when combined w B6 it helps morning sickness. Why is this cool? The theory on morning sickness is that it's too much serotonin in the small intestine causing spasms :)

I'd like to find a good one to help me during this allergy season. I'm in US so I can't get the cypro very easily (or affordably); I guess I can try the doxylamine succinate. I haven't found any negatives on it while searching this site. Thanks :)
 

allblues

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Pardon the necro-bump

I've been looking into trying some OTC antihistamine, unfortunately where i live most of the good old first-generation drugs have been phased out.

What is offered OTC here i basically;
Loratadine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, Cetirizine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, Ebastine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Provided there is a brand of any of these without the usual 5-6 thoroughly nasty excipients, could any of these have some value?

Loratadine is interesting, it looks like a franken-cyproheptadine with the added chlorine atom.
I've seen Ebastine mentioned as being OK somewhere on the forum.

Anyone got experience with these/other OTCs?
 

allblues

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Here's a study on loratadine in pigs Effect of loratadine on immediate and delayed type hypersensitivity reactions. - PubMed - NCBI
"Loratadine (CAS 79794-75-5) was effective in inhibiting the contractions of the ileum induced by histamine in guinea pigs. The drug also caused an anti-acetylcholine, anti-serotonin and anti-leukotriene D4 (LTD4) effect."

Also here showing moderate success with depression/SSRI-related erectile dysfunction, which i suppose would imply some anti-serotonin/anti-estrogen action An open-label series using loratadine for the treatment of sexual dysfunction associated with selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors. - PubMed - NCBI

Could loratadine be a rogue second generation-cypro?
 
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Ray Peat expressly avoids those because of the chlorine. That's the only difference anyway :ss
 

allblues

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Ray Peat expressly avoids those because of the chlorine. That's the only difference anyway :ss

Darn Pharma, always coming out with their new shoddier mousetraps.

Yeah i've seen that Peat quote regarding the chlorine-carbon bonds.
That being said, he can still mention tianeptine in a positive light, which has a similar problem.

I'd love to see some of the literature on this, especially since chlorinating and fluoridating nice old molecules seem like one of pharmas favourite activities for making new patentable compounds.
 

allblues

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In search of some unbiased trustworthy information i paid Wikipedia a visit ;)

Organochloride - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"However, the presence of chlorine in an organic compound does not ensure toxicity. Some organochlorides are considered safe enough for consumption in foods and medicines. For example, peas and broad beans contain the natural chlorinated plant hormone 4-chloroindole-3-acetic acid (4-Cl-IAA);[11][12] and the sweetener sucralose (Splenda) is widely used in diet products. As of 2004, at least 165 organochlorides had been approved worldwide for use as pharmaceutical drugs, including the natural antibiotic vancomycin, the antihistamine loratadine (Claritin), the antidepressant sertraline (Zoloft), the anti-epileptic lamotrigine (Lamictal), and the inhalation anesthetic isoflurane.[13]"

Looking at the page for 4-Chloroindole-3-acetic acid - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, some type of chlorinated plant serotonin (yikes)
"It is hypothesized that 4-Cl-IAA may be a "death hormone" that maturing seeds use to trigger death of the parent plant by mobilizing nutrients to be stored in the seed.[6]"
 
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Those atoms are generally very strong in charge so I think they just add them and figure they will be stronger on the "receptor". Certainly I think tianeptine is not the lightest breeze for your liver, and anyone who has taken it with alcohol could probably say so as well. But I think that is more because of opioid effect. In fact if you take it on the night after it will cure your hangover. Of course how bad the chlorine is would depend on how much it is interfering with the breakdown of the molecule, and what kind of nasty ***t is created when you breakdown the molecule.
 

DaveFoster

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So what does this mean? Tianeptine should be off limits? I just bought 100 grams of the free acid that'll last me years!
 

DaveFoster

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allblues

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It seems cyproheptadine won't be avaliable to me, lest i travel to London for a weekend of shopping

I think i still might try the weirdo-cypro loratadine, or ebastine. The excipients are a real bummer though.
Barring finding a cypro source it seems its down to a magnesium stearate-containing loratadine vs a aspartame-containing ebastine.
Clarityn tablett 10 mg 14 st Kestine frystorkad tablett 10 mg 10 st

You had some experience with ebastine, right Such_? How did you deal with excipients?

Being antiserotonergic etc, maybe even a liver-toxic substance like loratadine probably is to some degree could at the same time be liver-supportive? :cool: Famous last words...

Cyproheptadine, LSD-based drugs can regenerate damaged liver
 
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I use the sub-lingual pellets with the aspartame... I don't notice it much... any excitation can be countered with some theanine.
 
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Oniyogini

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@allblues I got my doctor to prescribe me Periactin (Cypro brand name) when I was in Truro, Cornwall. She had to look it up in her pharma book and it was there, so she could prescribe it.
 

allblues

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@Oniyogini I should have said traveled to UK, i'm not a brit ;)
People here in Sweden seem to like shopping weekends in London so i just figured i might do the same thing
(though bringing home 10 boxes of cypro instead of 10 pairs of shoes)
 

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