Should Peatarians Consider Antihistamines?

Ray-Z

Member
Joined
Oct 16, 2012
Messages
321
In several of his articles, Ray Peat suggests or implies that anthistamines may have beneficial effects. A few examples follow.

Ray Peat said:
The broadly protective effects of antihistamine drugs have been energetically exploited by the drug industry for fifty years.
(From "Serotonin, Depression, and Aggression: The Problem of Brain Energy.")

Ray Peat said:
Histamine mimics estrogen's effects on the uterus, and antihistamines block estrogen's effects (Szego, 1965, Szego and Davis, 1967). Estrogen mimics the shock reaction. Stress, exercise, and toxins cause a rapid increase in estrogen. Males often have as much estrogen as females, especially when they are tired or sick. Estrogen increases the brain's susceptibility to epileptic seizures, and recent research shows that it (and cortisol) promote the effects of the "excitotoxins," which are increasingly implicated in degenerative brain diseases.

Just after Szego's work was published, I suggested that antihistamines might be used to resist some of estrogen's toxic effects, including cancer. A few people tried the idea, with some benefit, but the basic idea of a physiological counterforce is opposed by the ideology of "specific chemotherapy," in cancer, epilepsy, arthritis, infertility, osteoporosis, immunodeficiency, Alzheimer's disease, etc.
(From "Not the 'Female Hormone,' But the Shock Hormone.")

Ray Peat said:
Several aspects of the immune system are improved by short-chain saturated fats. Their anti-histamine action [39] is probably important, because of histamine's immunosuppressive effects.[40]
(From "Oils in Context.")

Ray Peat said:
Antihistamines and some of the antiserotonin drugs (including "dopaminergic" lisuride and bromocriptine) are sometimes useful in cancer treatment, but the safe way to lower serotonin is to reduce the consumption of tryptophan, and to avoid excessive cortisol production (which mobilizes tryptophan from the muscles)
(From "Preventing and Treating Cancer With Progesterone.")

Ray Peat said:
Although mast cells have been known to be a common component of tumors for many years, it is only recently that antihistamines and other antiinflammatory drugs have been recognized as valuable therapies in cancer.
(From "Autonomic Systems.")

If you have used antihistamines, it would be great to hear about your experiences -- positive and negative -- with them. Do they have undesirable side effects or ingredients? Are some better than others? Are there better ways than drugs to achieve the benefits of antihistamines? Under what circumstances, if any, do you think Peatarians should consider using them?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.
 

kettlebell

Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2012
Messages
417
Location
UK
Excellent topic! I look forward to the responses. I am totally uneducated in regards to this so can't comment.

I am going to experiment with some, one a day or something like that and see if it has any effect.
 

Ray-Z

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Oct 16, 2012
Messages
321
Thanks, kettlebell and Charlie, for your encouragement.

I'll briefly describe my own experience. I have had allergies (stuffy nose, itchy skin, bad reactions to many common foods) almost my entire life and have used quite a few different antihistamines, most of which I do not remember well. I can recall my experiences with benadryl (non-prescription) and allegra (prescription), which I took at different times, pre-Peat.

Benadryl (diphenhydramine) did not seem to do anything besides knock me out. Because I could not take benadryl during the day time, and was always asleep or groggy when using it, it is conceivable that it had some mildly beneficial effects that I did not notice.

In low to moderate doses, allegra (fexofenadine) did not seem to do anything for me. The "24 hour" version of allegra (180 mg, I think) offered some -- though hardly complete -- relief from food allergies and seasonal nasal congestion. No noticeable side effects. All in all, not a great drug, but not worthless, either. I quit allegra a few years ago when I started becoming skeptical of the medical establishment. Was allegra the one "good" medication my MDs prescribed for me?

I'm curious about others' experiences...

EDIT: I should add that I did not noice any general metabolic or anti-inflammatory benefits from any antihistamine, but keep in mind that at the time, I was THE ANTI-PEAT -- a sick bundle of wheat, stress, and PUFA.
 

PeatFeat

Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2012
Messages
55
I have taken both Zyrtec and Claritin. I think they help with food allergies but not any major difference. I have been weary of taking any kind of medication, like it would weaken my system?. I have noticed Peat's comments on them and was already planning on taking 5-10mg at night (zyrtec makes me drowsy) after I had some allergy testing done. I will let you guys know if I notice anything.
 

norxgirl

Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2012
Messages
42
(May be duplicate post)

Started Benadryl again after reading that antihistamines are antiestrogenic. They are helping me get to sleep.

I did use a few times when working nights, but had to stop because they made me so drowsy at work the next night. I am now taking the same or stronger doses, and I really feel fine the next day....no grogginess. I am assuming I have a lot more estrogen dominance today than I did when using antihistamines before.

Claritin also makes me drowsy, so would not take during the day.

Back in May of this year, before starting on NDT, I had terribly swollen nasal passages almost all the time. It was awful. They are better most of the time these days/nights.
 

chris

Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2012
Messages
437
Age
28
Location
UK
I used certrizine hydrochloride for months at a time during hayfever season, with great benefit. I used piriton for a while but it made me too drowsy. Not used any for a while as my hayfever seems to be 99% gone.
 

Ray-Z

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Oct 16, 2012
Messages
321
PeatFeat said:
I have taken both Zyrtec and Claritin. I think they help with food allergies but not any major difference. I have been weary of taking any kind of medication, like it would weaken my system?. I have noticed Peat's comments on them and was already planning on taking 5-10mg at night (zyrtec makes me drowsy) after I had some allergy testing done. I will let you guys know if I notice anything.

Thanks, PeatFeat. Would be great to hear what you find out.


norxgirl said:
Started Benadryl again after reading that antihistamines are antiestrogenic. They are helping me get to sleep.

I did use a few times when working nights, but had to stop because they made me so drowsy at work the next night. I am now taking the same or stronger doses, and I really feel fine the next day....no grogginess. I am assuming I have a lot more estrogen dominance today than I did when using antihistamines before.

Claritin also makes me drowsy, so would not take during the day.

Back in May of this year, before starting on NDT, I had terribly swollen nasal passages almost all the time. It was awful. They are better most of the time these days/nights.

Thanks for the info, norxgirl. Do you think that the benadryl is helping with your nose, or are other changes, such as the NDT, more responsible?

chris said:
I used certrizine hydrochloride for months at a time during hayfever season, with great benefit. I used piriton for a while but it made me too drowsy. Not used any for a while as my hayfever seems to be 99% gone.
(Note: cetirizine hydrochloride = zyrtec.)

Thanks for the info, Chris. Glad to have a success story.
 

norxgirl

Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2012
Messages
42
Ray-Z wrote:

"Thanks for the info, norxgirl. Do you think that the benadryl is helping with your nose, or are other changes, such as the NDT, more responsible?"

Hi Ray-Z,

I am thinking probably the NDT, and Progest-E, yada yada. I also started a Now Brand gel multivitamin and some other supps, so the Vit. A may be helping with liver stuff. The Benadryl does dry me out. But I noticed the nasal stuffiness pretty much cleared up most of the time before I started the Benadryl back. I was a royal mess 6-7 months ago, barely functional.....pitiful, pitiful. I could hardly put two thoughts together. I was so bumfuzzled and frustrated at the swollen nasal passages and having to breathe through my mouth all the time. I was still working, very part-time, and did not know if I was allergic to the nasty house I was in, or my home, or what. I did not know if it was my stuffy nose that was contributing to my insomnia, or vice verse. It is amazing that I feel I may be partly back in the game of life. I think pregnenolone is also helping a lot.
 

Ray-Z

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Oct 16, 2012
Messages
321
Charlie said:
norxgirl said:
It is amazing that I feel I may be partly back in the game of life.


:dancenanner

norxgirl: Sounds like you averted a true disaster. Congratulations. I hope that in time you're able to move from "partly back in the game of life" to "fully back." And thanks for the info re your experiences.
 

Ray-Z

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Oct 16, 2012
Messages
321
For the last week or so, I've been experimenting with allegra (fexofenadine) and benadryl (diphenhydramine), two common antihistamines. I typically take one "24 hour" allegra tablet (180 mg) a few hours before bedtime and 1-2 benadryl (25 mg each) about 30-60 minutes before bedtime.

My nose still gets a bit congested, but with the antihistamines, I have significantly less difficulty breathing through my nose at night -- a big benefit. :mrgreen:

As discussed elsewhere, I have been highly allergic to dairy for many years. Yesterday and today, I tried eating some Peat-friendly ice cream, and had a milder reaction than usual, probably at least in part due to the antihistamines.

The benadryl tends to make me sleep later and feel groggy when I awaken. I'm not thrilled by these effects, but they might be helpful to people who awaken too early. :2cents

A possible drawback of these antihistamines: The lists of "inactive ingredients" aren't pretty. :eek:
 

charlie

The Law & Order Admin
Joined
Jan 4, 2012
Messages
11,682
Location
USA
Them darn nefarious excipients.

Ray-Z did you ever try that ricotta cheese recipe that I made from Ark's website?
 

Birdie

Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2012
Messages
1,953
Location
USA
I've tried benedryl. It gives me rapid hert beat and extreme dry mouth. I'm concerned that the dry mouth could lead to cavities. No saliva washing the mouth during the night.. Also it makes me drowsy next day.

I found some gel caps with better ingredients but they can't be cut for a smaller dose. So, at times I use a half a tab in spite of awful ingredients.

I think benedryl is good if you can tolerate it. My husband uses it intermittently. He complains of drowsiness but doesn't experience the rapid heart beat. He also uses loratadine/flatiron and ceterizine/zyrtec at times. He takes breaks from all of them.

I do remember Ray's mentioning benedryl use but does he think highly of the other ones? Anybody remember? It seems he liked another one too.... .?
 

Ray-Z

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Oct 16, 2012
Messages
321
Charlie said:
Them darn nefarious excipients.

Ray-Z did you ever try that ricotta cheese recipe that I made from Ark's website?

Charlie:

I've been at a location with very spotty internet connectivity; sorry for the delayed response.

You're right, I should try your recipe at some point. About 6 weeks ago, I bought ricotta that looked very Peat-friendly (no enzymes or "vegetable rennet"), and it constipated me pretty badly. I fared better with the ice cream a few days ago. I will try cheese again after I've given my gut a few weeks of vacation from dairy. :lol:

Birdie said:
I've tried benedryl. It gives me rapid hert beat and extreme dry mouth. I'm concerned that the dry mouth could lead to cavities. No saliva washing the mouth during the night.. Also it makes me drowsy next day.

I found some gel caps with better ingredients but they can't be cut for a smaller dose. So, at times I use a half a tab in spite of awful ingredients.

I think benedryl is good if you can tolerate it. My husband uses it intermittently. He complains of drowsiness but doesn't experience the rapid heart beat. He also uses loratadine/flatiron and ceterizine/zyrtec at times. He takes breaks from all of them.

I do remember Ray's mentioning benedryl use but does he think highly of the other ones? Anybody remember? It seems he liked another one too.... .?

Birdie:

The rapid heart beat and dry mouth are interesting; I can't say I've experienced those side effects, but I can see why they might make you wary. Thanks for the tip about benadryl gel caps with better ingredients. :D

You make a good point: While I've seen Ray Peat praise antihistamines (as in the quotes I listed at the beginning of this thread), I don't know which ones he likes best or whether there are any he considers unsafe. So I should emphasize that my own experiments with allegra are based upon his observations about antihistamines in general rather than any positive statements he's made about allegra in particular.
 

Birdie

Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2012
Messages
1,953
Location
USA
I have a benadryl update. Since somebody asked a question about antihistamines in the RP Fans group, I decided to try again. I'm taking 1/3 tablet. (25 mg tab).
The first couple of nights I experienced dry mouth again as usual. But, after a week that isn't happening. And no rapid heart beat at this dose.

I could try upping to 1/2 tab. In this way, could slowly increase the dose.
 

shaadoe

Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2012
Messages
23
I feel extremely drowsy after taking benadryl so I will take it at night because it knocks me out. Zyrtec does not have the same drowsiness symtoms and I actually feel pretty good after taking it.
 

Mastemah

Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2012
Messages
106
He likes doxylamine succinate. In addition to its anti histamine effects when combined w B6 it helps morning sickness. Why is this cool? The theory on morning sickness is that it's too much serotonin in the small intestine causing spasms :)
 

HDD

Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2012
Messages
2,028
Mastemah said:
He likes doxylamine succinate. In addition to its anti histamine effects when combined w B6 it helps morning sickness. Why is this cool? The theory on morning sickness is that it's too much serotonin in the small intestine causing spasms :)

It should help other serotonin problems, too, right?
 
Similar threads
Thread starter Title Forum Replies Date
deliciousfruit Insomnia - what should I try next? Insomnia, Sleep Issues 13
BearWithMe Everything that should improve thyroid makes me more hypothyroid Ask For Help or Advice 42
AlexR Meditation Is a Psychological Stressor and Should Not Be Recommended Mental Issues 66
G Should fructose be minimized if one already has low ATP? Metabolism 12
L Anti-Peat I Think Young Adults Should Avoid Calf/Beef Liver And Maybe Even Shellfish Debate - Anti-Peat 6
TypicalJock Should I drink Milk or Oj in the morning? Ask For Help or Advice 5
B Why should everyone get a vaccine (covid-19) when a small percentage is the "problem"? Vaccines 17
M How many mushrooms should I eat? Diet 5
Tarmander Why You Should Eat Raw Meat Diet 163
eeeeeeeeeeee How much sodium should I really be getting? Diet 0
J Interesting study claims Vitamin K2 should be classified as a hormone Supplements, Pharmaceutical Drugs 9
J Deuterium In Carbs - Should I Be Concerned? Health 1
M I’m Not Convinced Vitamin D Should Be Supplemented D 152
burtlancast Should Trump Fear For His Life ? Political Talk, Alternative World Theories 20
S Should Cypro Be Cycle ? Supplements, Pharmaceutical Drugs 9
J "Virus" Should Have Never Been Utilized As Computer Jargon Political Talk, Alternative World Theories 2
J Are There Any Skin Care Ingredients That One Should Absolutely Avoid? Skin 0
Hans Why Animal Foods Should Be A Necessity And Not A Luxury Articles & Scientific Studies 52
O COVID-19 Should Be A Methylene Blue “promoter” Articles & Scientific Studies 5
S What Should Betaine Hcl Smell Like? Supplements, Pharmaceutical Drugs 13
Amazoniac Using (the Term) 'Lactic Acid' In Physiology Is Dangerous, Should Be Regulated As Drugs Acidity vs. Alkalinity 19
J Should One Avoid High Vit A Foods If They Have Taken Accutane In Their Life? A 12
lvysaur We Should've Known By Now How Blood Markers Correlate With Symptoms Miscellaneous Health Discussions 4
orewashin Should Introverts Force Themselves Out Of Solitude? Mind, Sleep, Stress 40
wealthofwisdom What Should A Woman With Fatigue & Hair Loss Get Tested? Blood Work, Labs 6
A Guys Should We Rename This Forum To The Marylin Monroe Forum? Rant or Rave 18
A People Trying To Lose Weight Should Use Stearic Acid Ask For Help or Advice 29
BearWithMe Everything That Should Help With Dehydration Is Making My Dehydration Worse Ask For Help or Advice 40
J Should I Be Soaking Sunflower Seeds Before Eating Them? Skin 11
C Decalcification Purpose: Should Consume Calcium Or Not K 2
Giraffe Should I Get Covid-19 Or Wait Until Covid-20 Comes Out? Viruses, Parasites, Fungus, Vaccines 19
Lenny Quick Question: Should I Eat White Button Muchrooms While Taking Minocycline? Ask For Help or Advice 6
C Should I Get T3 Checked If T4 + TSH Are Ok? Blood Work, Labs 0
haidut Antidepressants Are Physically Addictive, Should Not Be Taken Long-term Scientific Studies 2
Velve921 Porcelain Crown Just Fell Off — What Should I Do To Keep It Clean? Ask For Help or Advice 7
Such_Umami Bit Sick, Diarrhea. How Should I Approach This? Ask For Help or Advice 2
bistecca I Have An EMF Meter. I'm Going To Test Stuff. What Should I Test? Experiments 18
Y Should One Aim For Higher Than 98.6 F Under NDT (a Little Hyperthyroid)? Supplements, Pharmaceutical Drugs 3
R Should D3 And K2 Be Taken Together Or Separately? Supplements 0
Such_Umami What Form Of Calcium And Zinc Should I Supplement? Ask For Help or Advice 22
boris Antibiotics + Milk. Should Antibiotics Really Not Be Taken With Dairy? Supplements, Pharmaceutical Drugs 1
M Choline-stablized Orthosilicic Acid Stop My Hair Loss, But Should I Cont Hair & Nails 16
Julian Vitamin E From Wheat Germ Oil. But Should I Take This One? Supplements, Pharmaceutical Drugs 12
C Should I Add Seafood To My Diet Diet 1
Lenny Starting With DHEA. Anything I Should Know About Before Start? Ask For Help or Advice 2
UltraSuperior Another Recommendation Thread, But Lost On What I Should Buy(Germany) Red Light, Infrared, LLLT 51
debored13 What Meds Should I Take To Help With Valley Fever ? Supplements, Pharmaceutical Drugs 1
T How Large (area) LED Setup Should I Get Red Light, Infrared, LLLT 0
ScurveDream Re-introducing Caffeine Back In To My Diet . How Should I Do It? Diet 9
H Ingested Topical Cyproheptadine. Should I Be Worried? Supplements, Pharmaceutical Drugs 1

Similar threads

Top