Should I treat my high cortisol?

Discussion in 'Messtafarian' started by messtafarian, Jun 30, 2015.

  1. sugarbabe

    sugarbabe Member

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    Wow thank-you pboy :) that is a lot to take in! I've never had so much positivity sent my way especially not from someone on the internet. Yes I am definitely moving in the right direction, just need my body to keep on healing. I shared details because I think I'm ready to put what happened in the past, to move forward and not be held back by trauma. Maybe it is best shared with a therapist, but I don't want to relive what I went through because when I go back to it I still get some dread/terror/panic/anxiety feelings building up in my nervous system. Just need to keep discharging it and sending light and love in its place. Thanks :)
     
  2. Amazoniac

    Amazoniac Member

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    This is why I say that this guy is awesome..
     
  3. emmanceb

    emmanceb Member

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    :1, in the words of the prophet Elsa "Let it go."
     
  4. Giraffe

    Giraffe Member

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    LOL ... and you praise him in every (almost) single post ...
     
  5. mujuro

    mujuro Member

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    How long have you been this way? Years and years? months?

    +1 on the dexamethasone suppression test. If your cortisol is elevated and there is no active negative feedback taking it down, it would mean one of two things: glucocorticoid signaling dysfunction (feedbacks broken), or a mass. That follows, doesn't it?

    haidut mentioned mental illnesses. Funny how this connection keeps coming up. I guess a great % of people on here have cortisol issues. My cortisol was elevated like yours. Perusing PubMed I found that schizophrenics, bipolar and major depression patients have a very weak or non-existent response to a dexamethasone suppression test, indicating a GR signaling issue.

    I followed the same set of clues as you. First I thought autonomic, then neurological, Parkinson's. I circled back to MS so many times. I was weak physically, compared to how I am now. Yes you definitely can passively "feel" the elevated cortisol.
     
  6. Giraffe

    Giraffe Member

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    Messtafarian, you have been taking iron supplement on/off to treat anemia or low ferritin, right? Have you ever suspected copper deficiency as a culprit for your neurological issues? Or has this been ruled out?

     
  7. haidut

    haidut Member

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    Low ferritin is iron deficiency by definition. If copper is low iron is usually high. As Peat said, copper and iron somewhat substitute for each other in case of relative deficiencies, but it's much more preferable to have iron deficiency than iron overload. I have not seen a case where both copper would be low as well as iron (ferritin). Low iron can cause elevation of ceruloplasmin, which can bring in too much copper into the brain and thus give some neurological symptoms.
    Btw, many cases of anemia are energetical in origin, just as Peat said. As such (see below) they could be treatable by methylene blue (or thyroid), which boosts cytochrome C and incidentally has been used in some anemias in the past.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper_de ... l_Etiology
    "...The anemia caused by copper deficiency is thought to be caused by impaired iron transport. Hephaestin is a copper containing ferroxidase enzyme located in the duodenal muscosa that oxidizes iron and facilitate its transfer across the basolateral membrane into circulation.[6] Another iron transporting enzyme is ceruloplasmin.[6] This enzyme is required to mobilize iron from the reticuloendothelial cell to plasma.[6] Ceruloplasmin also oxidizes iron from its ferrous state to the ferric form that is required for iron binding.[4] Impairment in these copper dependent enzymes that transport iron may cause the secondary iron deficiency anemia.[6] Another speculation for the cause of anemia is involving the mitochondrial enzyme cytochrome c oxidase (complex IV in the electron transport chain). Studies have shown that animal models with impaired cytochrome c oxidase failed to synthesize heme from ferric iron at the normal rate.[6] The lower rate of the enzyme might also cause the excess iron to clump, giving the heme an unusual pattern.[6] This unusual pattern is also known as ringed sideroblastic anemia cells."
     
  8. OP
    messtafarian

    messtafarian Member

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    Haidut:

    I have been supplementing copper now for about a month -- 8 mg a day divided. My iron values are horrible and have been for most of my adulthood -- latest values are

    Iron -- 28 ( normal starts at 65)
    Iron binding capacity -- 413 ( within normal btwn 265-478)
    Ferritin -- 5 ( normal 11-307)
    Saturation -- 3.8 ( normal 15-50%)

    I didn't start taking copper because of the iron deficiency. I started because all of my problems are neurological and they did not respond to b12, b1, folate, or magnesium, or a gluten free or even starch free diet. I had nothing else to try so I started copper. I also supplement iron via a multiple vitamin tablet and won't take more than that standard amount because of all the bad things I've read about iron.

    Do you really think it can't be copper? I'm out of stuff to try.
     
  9. haidut

    haidut Member

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    In your case I would actually supplement iron, not copper. Copper can bring iron down even more, as they are antagonistic in a sense. Have you had your copper tested, as well as ceruloplasmin? I would not supplement copper without knowing where I stand on that. With iron levels that low your copper may be high and the neurological symptoms you have may be related to that copper excess. Also, copper excess is well known to elevate cortisol, which I think you also had issues with. Did you find out what is the reason for the high cortisol? Did you have a dexamethasone suppression test? Furthermore, if copper is high it suggests your estrogen is also high. You can do a blood test and use this information to correlate it to tissue levels.
    viewtopic.php?f=10&t=7509&p=95287&hilit=estrogen+ratio+luteal#p95287
    Finally, 8mg of copper daily is too much. The human studies found symptoms of copper toxicity at doses above 4mg, especially in women.
    As a rule of thumb, whenever you test iron it should always be combined with serum copper and ceruloplasmin, zinc, and manganese. These metals have very intricate relationship and testing one without the others gives a very misleading picture.
    Anyways, I think in your case even Ray would be OK with supplementing iron. Your case is one of the few real cases of iron deficiency anemia in adults. Have you asked him about it?
    Btw, try to get the copper, zinc and manganese tests I mentioned before supplementing iron. It will tell you how much you need to supplement.
     
  10. OP
    messtafarian

    messtafarian Member

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    I've never been tested for copper or ceruplasmin or any of the other minerals -- the only thing I've had done repeatedly is iron. I've been thinking about asking for that test but I really have not been eating a "high copper diet" -- the more I looked at levels in the food databases the more it seemed to me that there was no way I could be getting *any* copper. This year I also had some spinal discs blow out -- seems like there were four of them that went at once -- which also seemed like a clue that I needed copper.

    No one ever gave me an explanation for the high cortisol, which was high on clinical testing at 85 during an upright blood draw. However when they did the three-night midnight cortisol test I was told it was normal though the doc never sent me the values. No further mention of it was made but cypro seemed to help with the symptoms I was having quite a bit. It made me realize the "hot flashes" I was having probably had something to do with my digestion and not menopause.
     
  11. haidut

    haidut Member

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    Hot flashes are cortisol/estrogen. Menopause can be reframed as simply an excess of estrogen/cortisol and not enough progesterone. There are case reports of postmenopausal women becoming of child-baring ability again after progesterone supplementation. I would strongly suggest getting the copper, zinc, manganese, etc tests I mentioned. You can be high on copper without knowing it. I would not go by symptoms only to determine copper levels/stores. You could also be low on manganese, or just hypothyroid.
    Have you had your DHEA levels tested? With cortisol high DHEA is often very very low and low DHEA produces neurological symptoms like no other steroid (except pregnenolone).
     
  12. OP
    messtafarian

    messtafarian Member

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    Actually becoming of "child-bearing ability" again is exactly what happened to me after supplementing with progesterone (and pregnenolone) and doing the rice and butter diet for about two months.

    I have not had my sex steroids tested in total. It's amazing to me how incomplete the labs I've gotten are. I had an estradiol test ( low) and an FSH which was high ( perimenopause) but progesterone was never tested nor was DHEA. I'm going to have to make a list and make an appointment :).
     
  13. Giraffe

    Giraffe Member

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    Wasn't it rice krispies? Fortified with iron?
     
  14. OP
    messtafarian

    messtafarian Member

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    Yep it was. :)
     
  15. Giraffe

    Giraffe Member

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    Messtafarian, I vaguely remember a post of you in which you described that you have been treated with iron supplements for a while to treat anemia. In the years that followed you have been diagnosed with a couple of nasty things (I do not remember what these were). This post along with your symptoms made me think of copper deficiency.

    Was the supplemental iron able to treat your anemia back then?

    I am not objecting to anything Haidut wrote here. In fact I did not know, that your iron markers are that low. Still wondering...
     
  16. OP
    messtafarian

    messtafarian Member

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    Nothing ever really helped my iron markers except when I stopped having my period for a while. What helped the actual anemia and brought my hemoglobin all the way up to normal was b vitamin supplementation, in a multiple plus b complex and extra thiamine. My iron stayed low but my hemoglobin shot up, go figure. :)
     
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