Should I Go On Trt?

James_001

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Nov 24, 2015
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235
Question about trt. I know that I am secondary hypogonal . However, I having been peating for almost a year and haven't been able to solve my problems.

I have caught glimpses of health, that push me to continue.

I need something to help me feel better right now so I can get through school, and maybe try to solve my issues more holistically when I have a less stressful situation.

The only drugs that make me feel better are lsd/mushrooms, and phenibut.

I also have insomnia issues and pretty sure that if I could sleep that I would be healthy. Anyone else have experience using trt and then coming off after a year or so?

I have read all the relevant threads on this site.

Thanks
 

franko

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What health problems are you trying to solve? If you had to list each of them and describe each one in a word or two, what would that list be?

Have you had blood tests done for the usual suspects (thyroid, prolactin, estrogen, testosterone, etc)? What were the results?
 
OP
J

James_001

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franko said:
post 111405 What health problems are you trying to solve? If you had to list each of them and describe each one in a word or two, what would that list be?

Have you had blood tests done for the usual suspects (thyroid, prolactin, estrogen, testosterone, etc)? What were the results?

Health problems:

Insomnia
Hair-loss
Nno Libido
Depression
Anxiety
Low-motivation

My pulse and temps are fine. Currently a little hyper actually (95 bpm/99.9 degrees)

My blood-work is also fine besides my testosterone (436), and yes I looked at it myself I didn't just have the doctor tell me I was okay.i.e. TSH is under 1, prolactin is low, free t3 is high, etc...

Main issue is the sleep, when I sleep through the night I feel all of my issues resolved. thanks
 
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jaywills

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This should not be a question you should be asking others, especially not on a forum. No disrespect to others here and the wealth of knowledge experience and empathy that can be found. Do not outsource a life changing decision; ultimately only you will know how to take this forward.

Having said the above, in my opinipn I would review all potential other avenues . You have to remember TRT is a recipe for dependence long term and the shutting down of your own steroid production more permanently . I've been in exactly your position, came off TRT after 2 jabs and restored libido and test

These below questions can help us bridge the gap. Firstly, a positive approach is a prerequisite. You have to believe you can restore your natural steroid production and that you will commit to lifestyle changes. Ultimately the life you lead at present is not optimal for your hormones, regardless of how peaty they may be.

Questions:
1) What's your calorie intake?
2) How much energy are expending above your BMR (through added exercise )- are you weightlifting?
3) history of dieting, carb restriction?
4) coffee intake
5) have you had significant life event stressful - whether psychological or emotional?
6) have you had a libido previously?
7) supplements being consumed?
8) What's your day job and social habits like

We will get there James. ..
 

YuraCZ

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674
How looks your zinc/copper ratio in the diet? 8:1 is Ideal. WIth Peat friendly foods is easy have too much copper..
 
D

Derek

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TRT most likely in your case will not increase T anyways. It's more likely to increase your estrogen levels, unless you already have very low aromatase activity. This is why when bodybuilders take TRT they also take aromatase inhibitors.
 

franko

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James_001 said:
My blood-work is also fine besides my testosterone (436), and yes I looked at it myself I didn't just have the doctor tell me I was okay.i.e. TSH is under 1, prolactin is low, free t3 is high, etc...

You'll be more likely to get help if you post all your tests and the numbers. Heck, scan the results and post them as an image if you can. The users on this form are pretty smart people and they might draw your attention to things you didn't even know to look for, or that your doctor doesn't consider important.

Also, tell us about your diet and lifestyle. What do you typically eat? Sunlight exposure? Activity levels? Post a screen capture of your diet in cronometer.com if you can. Your macros, your vitamin and mineral levels are factors to consider.

Basically there's no such thing as TMI, in this situation. I recommend you do like DankMemes did here: viewtopic.php?t=8524

Model poster right there. This is how you'll get the most help and advice, IMO.

James_001 said:
My blood-work is also fine besides my testosterone (436),

So your testosterone is low, but the question is: Why is your testosterone low?

You could get on TRT but then you won't be addressing the underlying problem. IMO, you want to focus on that.

I tried TRT injections, but I found out that I needed aromatase inhibitors in order to prevent heavy aromatization into estrogen, and then I realized that I didn't even need the Testosterone when I was on aromatase inhibitors, because the AI's alone restored me to normal T levels.

Btw I have found that restoring normal T levels greatly reduces depression, anxiety and low motivation for me — whether it's directly causative or just correlated I don't know for sure.

James_001 said:
Main issue is the sleep, when I sleep through the night I feel all of my issues resolved. thanks

There's a lot of discussion about sleep issues on the forum, it's often related to cortisol and/or adrenaline — aka, the general stress response.
 

YuraCZ

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Derek said:
post 111418 TRT most likely in your case will not increase T anyways. It's more likely to increase your estrogen levels, unless you already have very low aromatase activity. This is why when bodybuilders take TRT they also take aromatase inhibitors.
What? When you take intramuscular injection of testosterone = synthetic testosterone is in your blood= testosterone will increase and of course you need to take AI. It is like take condom when you have a sex with prostitute.. With adequate test level he will have more energy, more confidence, less fatigue, less depression etc. It is not treating the cause. But so much males take TRT for life because they had low tst and they feel great in their 50-60 like a 25yo healthy boys. Males in the USA are so lucky with their TRT.. :|
 
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D

Derek

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YuraCZ said:
post 111437
Derek said:
post 111418 TRT most likely in your case will not increase T anyways. It's more likely to increase your estrogen levels, unless you already have very low aromatase activity. This is why when bodybuilders take TRT they also take aromatase inhibitors.
What? When you take intramuscular injection of testosterone = synthetic testosterone is in your blood= testosterone will increase and of course you need to take AI. It is like take condom when you have a sex with prostitute.. With adequate test level he will have more energy, more confidence, less fatigue, less depression etc. It is not treating the cause. But so much males take TRT for life because they had low tst and they feel great in their 50-60 like a 25yo healthy boys. Males in the USA are so lucky with their TRT.. :|

He didn't mention taking AI. He just was asking about TRT. And I said in his case without taking AI, the TRT is likely to just increase estrogen. He likely has high aromatase activity, based on his symptoms; and taking TRT without addressing the aromatase issue is going to cause more harm than good IMO. He may even have better effects by just skipping the TRT and taking AI.
 
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Messages
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James_001 said:
post 111400 Question about trt. I know that I am secondary hypogonal . However, I having been peating for almost a year and haven't been able to solve my problems.

I have caught glimpses of health, that push me to continue.

I need something to help me feel better right now so I can get through school, and maybe try to solve my issues more holistically when I have a less stressful situation.

The only drugs that make me feel better are lsd/mushrooms, and phenibut.

I also have insomnia issues and pretty sure that if I could sleep that I would be healthy. Anyone else have experience using trt and then coming off after a year or so?

I have read all the relevant threads on this site.

Thanks

Assuming everything else is sound, try daily: vitamin E, vitamin K2, vitamin A, 2 to 4 eggs, 1-3mg DHEA.

This will lower estrogen, prolactin and increase Testosterone+DHT.

Derek said:
He didn't mention taking AI. He just was asking about TRT. And I said in his case without taking AI, the TRT is likely to just increase estrogen. He likely has high aromatase activity, based on his symptoms; and taking TRT without addressing the aromatase issue is going to cause more harm than good IMO. He may even have better effects by just skipping the TRT and taking AI.

This is a better strategy. Jumping on TRT will accelerate hairloss because of the increase in estrogen and prolactin. Fixing the underlying cause (i.e. the increased aromatase activity, prolactin, liver etc) will allow him to reap the benefits of supposed TRT without the negatives.
 
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Platinum

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Coincidentally, the most recent episode of Robb Wolf's podcast talks about TRT in the first half: http://robbwolf.com/2015/11/24/episode-297-dr-mike-hart-hrt-and-cannabinoids/

According to the interviewee, the main reason aromatase inhibitors are needed in TRT is because the typical dosing of TRT is a high dose on a less frequent basis. By taking such a high dose at one time, it's inevitable that some of it will aromatize. However, if you take a lower dose on a more frequent basis, it won't aromatize or shut down endogenous production. Off the top of my head I don't remember the exact amounts mentioned, I would have to listen to it again.
 
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Platinum said:
post 111450 Coincidentally, the most recent episode of Robb Wolf's podcast talks about TRT in the first half: http://robbwolf.com/2015/11/24/episode-297-dr-mike-hart-hrt-and-cannabinoids/

According to the interviewee, the main reason aromatase inhibitors are needed in TRT is because the typical dosing of TRT is a high dose on a less frequent basis. By taking such a high dose at one time, it's inevitable that some of it will aromatize. However, if you take a lower dose on a more frequent basis, it won't aromatize or shut down endogenous production. Off the top of my head I don't remember the exact amounts mentioned, I would have to listen to it again.

This generally plays out only in people with a sound metabolism i.e. people who for whatever reason produce little estrogen or prolactin.

Case in point: when Dr. Hamilton injected castrates (people who don't produce androgens) with normal/regular amounts of testosterone (i.e. TRT), he found that he could induce balding/hairloss in those who were 'genetically' susceptible.

Peat has recommended vit A, pregnenolone and T3 to normalise testosterone function.
 
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YuraCZ

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Platinum said:
post 111450 Coincidentally, the most recent episode of Robb Wolf's podcast talks about TRT in the first half: http://robbwolf.com/2015/11/24/episode-297-dr-mike-hart-hrt-and-cannabinoids/

According to the interviewee, the main reason aromatase inhibitors are needed in TRT is because the typical dosing of TRT is a high dose on a less frequent basis. By taking such a high dose at one time, it's inevitable that some of it will aromatize. However, if you take a lower dose on a more frequent basis, it won't aromatize or shut down endogenous production. Off the top of my head I don't remember the exact amounts mentioned, I would have to listen to it again.
Of couester.. Nobody wants to take injections of test propionate every or every other day for rest of his life. Shot once a week or every other week with long ester is much more convenient..
 
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dookie

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cantstoppeating said:
This generally plays out only in people with a sound metabolism i.e. people who for whatever reason produce little estrogen or prolactin.

Case in point: when Dr. Hamilton injected castrates (people who don't produce androgens) with normal/regular amounts of testosterone (i.e. TRT), he found that he could induce balding/hairloss in those who were 'genetically' susceptible.

Peat has recommended vit A, pregnenolone and T3 to normalise testosterone function.

Where does Peat say Vitamin A raises testosterone? I thought vitamin A was for progesterone production
 
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Messages
585
dookie said:
post 111464
cantstoppeating said:
This generally plays out only in people with a sound metabolism i.e. people who for whatever reason produce little estrogen or prolactin.

Case in point: when Dr. Hamilton injected castrates (people who don't produce androgens) with normal/regular amounts of testosterone (i.e. TRT), he found that he could induce balding/hairloss in those who were 'genetically' susceptible.

Peat has recommended vit A, pregnenolone and T3 to normalise testosterone function.

Where does Peat say Vitamin A raises testosterone? I thought vitamin A was for progesterone production

I don't know where Peat says that Vitamin A raises testosterone.

He has recommended it for normalising testosterone function by (presumably) normalising thyroid production.
 
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dookie

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cantstoppeating said:
dookie said:
post 111464
cantstoppeating said:
This generally plays out only in people with a sound metabolism i.e. people who for whatever reason produce little estrogen or prolactin.

Case in point: when Dr. Hamilton injected castrates (people who don't produce androgens) with normal/regular amounts of testosterone (i.e. TRT), he found that he could induce balding/hairloss in those who were 'genetically' susceptible.

Peat has recommended vit A, pregnenolone and T3 to normalise testosterone function.

Where does Peat say Vitamin A raises testosterone? I thought vitamin A was for progesterone production

I don't know where Peat says that Vitamin A raises testosterone.

He has recommended it for normalising testosterone function by (presumably) normalising thyroid production.

Can you pinpoint to which article you are getting these from? I thought excess Vitamin A would block thyroid function. Maybe vitamin A would normalize test by lowering estrogen? Just haven't seen where peat says vitamin a to normalize test or thyroid.
 
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Joined
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Messages
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dookie said:
post 111468
cantstoppeating said:
dookie said:
post 111464
cantstoppeating said:
This generally plays out only in people with a sound metabolism i.e. people who for whatever reason produce little estrogen or prolactin.

Case in point: when Dr. Hamilton injected castrates (people who don't produce androgens) with normal/regular amounts of testosterone (i.e. TRT), he found that he could induce balding/hairloss in those who were 'genetically' susceptible.

Peat has recommended vit A, pregnenolone and T3 to normalise testosterone function.

Where does Peat say Vitamin A raises testosterone? I thought vitamin A was for progesterone production

I don't know where Peat says that Vitamin A raises testosterone.

He has recommended it for normalising testosterone function by (presumably) normalising thyroid production.

Can you pinpoint to which article you are getting these from? I thought excess Vitamin A would block thyroid function. Maybe vitamin A would normalize test by lowering estrogen? Just haven't seen where peat says vitamin a to normalize test or thyroid.

Yes, too much vitamin A is anti-thyroid because of its unsaturated nature; yes, vitamin A would normalize testosterone by lowering estrogen; yes, vitamin A would normalize testosterone production by supporting the mitochondria to produce pregnenolone. These points are made throughout most of his articles.

Check the Q&A section of the wiki under vitamin A and testosterone.
 
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OP
J

James_001

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Nov 24, 2015
Messages
235
jaywills said:
post 111413 This should not be a question you should be asking others, especially not on a forum. No disrespect to others here and the wealth of knowledge experience and empathy that can be found. Do not outsource a life changing decision; ultimately only you will know how to take this forward.

Having said the above, in my opinipn I would review all potential other avenues . You have to remember TRT is a recipe for dependence long term and the shutting down of your own steroid production more permanently . I've been in exactly your position, came off TRT after 2 jabs and restored libido and test

These below questions can help us bridge the gap. Firstly, a positive approach is a prerequisite. You have to believe you can restore your natural steroid production and that you will commit to lifestyle changes. Ultimately the life you lead at present is not optimal for your hormones, regardless of how peaty they may be.

Questions:
1) What's your calorie intake?
2) How much energy are expending above your BMR (through added exercise )- are you weightlifting?
3) history of dieting, carb restriction?
4) coffee intake
5) have you had significant life event stressful - whether psychological or emotional?
6) have you had a libido previously?
7) supplements being consumed?
8) What's your day job and social habits like

We will get there James. ..

1) High, usually around 4000 to 4500 cals depending on how much I feel like eating
2) Almost no exercise besides walking - I find exercise completely wipes me out at this point
3) History of dieting includes a vegan diet in 2012, and former participation in endurance athletics
4) High, usually 2 - 4 cups a day
5) Yes, I had a year or more of very high stress, almost bordering on trauma. That is when my problems started, stress is gone now though.
6) Yes, I had an excellent libido when I was younger
7) Vitamin A, D, and k2, a fourth of a cynomel and 25 mcg of cytomel
8) I am a mathematician professionally, Not much of a social life currently due to health issues, depression, etc...
I have a roommate that is probably my best friend right now and we spend quite a bit of time together. I make an effort to be more social occasionally, but this usually leads to eating- out and pufa consumption which makes my problems worse despite the social benefit.

I feel like no matter what I do I can't get out of this hole. I have to keep taking psychedelics at low doses or else I get depressed and feel helpless.

I have tried:

Pregnenolone
cyproheptadine
Bromocriptine
Armidex
Cabergoline
t4 only
NDT
NDT plus t3

Thinking about dropping thyroid meds and working on diet alone. I also have pretty consistent suicidal thoughts when I am not on a psychedelic.
 

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Agent207

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cantstoppeating said:
Jumping on TRT will accelerate hairloss because of the increase in estrogen and prolactin.
Thats wrong. Im not gonna say estrogen/prolactin won't have a rol on hairloss, but is DHT by far whats gonna worsen hairloss if he's predisposed to it by genetics. In that case both topical calcium channels and DHT blockers may help. But thats another complex topic.

To the OP, this could be derived from neurotransmitter issue, some nutrient imbalance, caused by the lack of an enzyme i.e. can lead to that. I'd not jump on TRT than early; aromatase inhibitors looks a safer way, you could check on exemestane at low doses, like 6,25mg, and see how it goes.
 
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Agent207 said:
post 111510
cantstoppeating said:
Jumping on TRT will accelerate hairloss because of the increase in estrogen and prolactin.

Thats wrong. Im not gonna say estrogen/prolactin won't have a rol on hairloss, but is DHT by far whats gonna worsen hairloss if he's predisposed to it by genetics. In that case both topical calcium channels and DHT blockers may help. But thats another complex topic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVq9XD0 ... IpNgWmtgKq

http://www.dannyroddy.com/weblog/hairlikeafoxfa
 
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