Sexuality And Libido Through A Peat Prism

[haidut]

haidut:
interesting!
how did u come to the conclusion to use that much vit e?
and how was your testosterone before all this? :)

Testosterone was in the 700s range before vitamin E intake, which was NOT low according to the official guidelines of 200ng-900ng / dl. It's really not that difficult raising testosterone, but that is only one of the variables. For libido, I'd recommend lowering serotonin in the brain and for that BCAAs are key.

 

[north]

Great to know. Went thru the articles you posted as well. A few questions,
When do you take BCAAs? A certain time during the day or do you take it together with your protein mix with phenylananine + tyrosine?
Also, I was reading up on b6, and found that there are different types and pyridoxal 5'-fosfat seems to be "the good one" in the supp-descriptions, is that the way to go?

Thanks for your posts!

 

[haidut]

I take about 7g of BCAA with my big protein meals. This way you don't have to take additional Phe and Tyr since those are already in the protein you eat. This usually ends up totaling about 20g of BCAA per day if you assume 3 big protein meals.

As far as vitamin B6, if you go to PubMed and you read the studies about B6 it is only pyridoxine hydrochloride (the cheap regular B6 in all supplements) that was found to lower prolactin and act like dopamine agonist. Most of the studies are from the 1940s and 1950s so you'd have to go towards the end of the search results but they are there. Also, Ray has always talked about B6, and if there was any indication that it is not the regular cheap B6 he is referring to, he usually makes that very clear. In addition, he says that 10mg of B6 is a "big dose" and that is usually in context to the cheap version b/c it has the potential to cause nerve damage in high doses, while the P5P and other variations are not known to cause any side effects in bigger doses. I personally take the regular B6 and have noticed good effects.
I guess the only certain way is to try and see how the regular B6 affects you before going after the expensive and sometimes proprietary variations of B6.

 

[Curt :-)]

Total T of 1500. That's crazy. Haidut, you are the man Thanks for sharing

 

[AdamCapriola]

Just to add another viewpoint on B6, Andrew Kim mentioned in when he wrote for Matt Stone's newsletter last month:

http://180degreehealth.com/newsletter-issue-2/

(Password "180d" if you don't feel like signing up for the mailing list.)

He thinks 50 to 100 mg per day is probably safe.

 

[north]

Sorry, more questions :P

Having trouble finding a good zinc supp, would zinc citrate be ok instead of gloconate? I guess trying it out is the best answer just thought id ask if you have any experience on it?
Also,
B6 ive found in a b-complex with "Vitamin B6 (25 mg as Pyridoxine HCl and 3.4 mg as Pyridoxal 5'-Phosphate) 28.4 mg". Im thinking splitting them up so i would get about 5mg of Pyridoxine HCl per serving.
Would that be doing the job? There are some additives but i cant find "cleaner" ones than this.

This is what the b-complex looks like:
"One Capsule Contains:
Thiamin (as Thiamin HCl) 50 mg
Riboflavin (25 mg as Riboflavin and 3.6 mg as Riboflavin 5'-Phosphate Sodium) 28.6 mg
Niacin (as Niacinamide) 80 mg
Vitamin B6 (25 mg as Pyridoxine HCl and 3.4 mg as Pyridoxal 5'-Phosphate) 28.4 mg
Folate (as L-5-Methyltetrahydrofolate* from L-5-Methyltetrahydrofolic Acid, Glucosamine Salt) 200 mcg
Vitamin B12 (as Methylcobalamin) 100 mcg
Biotin 80 mcg
Pantothenic Acid (as Calcium Pantothenate) 250 mg
Choline Citrate 40 mg

Other Ingredients: Hypromellose (derived from cellulose) capsule, Magnesium Laurate, Magnesium Citrate, Silicon Dioxide.

*This product uses Gnosis S.p.A.'s L-5-Methyltetrahydrofolic Acid, Glucosamine Salt."

 

[haidut]

Sorry, more questions :P

Having trouble finding a good zinc supp, would zinc citrate be ok instead of gloconate? I guess trying it out is the best answer just thought id ask if you have any experience on it?
Also,
B6 ive found in a b-complex with "Vitamin B6 (25 mg as Pyridoxine HCl and 3.4 mg as Pyridoxal 5'-Phosphate) 28.4 mg". Im thinking splitting them up so i would get about 5mg of Pyridoxine HCl per serving.
Would that be doing the job? There are some additives but i cant find "cleaner" ones than this.

This is what the b-complex looks like:
"One Capsule Contains:
Thiamin (as Thiamin HCl) 50 mg
Riboflavin (25 mg as Riboflavin and 3.6 mg as Riboflavin 5'-Phosphate Sodium) 28.6 mg
Niacin (as Niacinamide) 80 mg
Vitamin B6 (25 mg as Pyridoxine HCl and 3.4 mg as Pyridoxal 5'-Phosphate) 28.4 mg
Folate (as L-5-Methyltetrahydrofolate* from L-5-Methyltetrahydrofolic Acid, Glucosamine Salt) 200 mcg
Vitamin B12 (as Methylcobalamin) 100 mcg
Biotin 80 mcg
Pantothenic Acid (as Calcium Pantothenate) 250 mg
Choline Citrate 40 mg

Other Ingredients: Hypromellose (derived from cellulose) capsule, Magnesium Laurate, Magnesium Citrate, Silicon Dioxide.

*This product uses Gnosis S.p.A.'s L-5-Methyltetrahydrofolic Acid, Glucosamine Salt."

Ray would stay away from anything that contains silicon dioxide (silica). He said it's analogous to drinking powdered glass.

 

[Filip1993]

@Haidut Do you take copper along with your zinc supplement?

 

[haidut]

@Haidut Do you take copper along with your zinc supplement?

I try to get copper from seafood. When I tried taking supplemental copper it gave me nausea.

 

[Curt :-)]

@ Haidut, I've bought some BCAA's to play with. How long will it take to work?

 

[Filip1993]

@Haidut Okey, good to know. One more question, how do you measure your vitamin e dosage (lotion crafter)? If I want to take 400 iu, how much should I take then? Thanks!

 

[haidut]

@Haidut Okey, good to know. One more question, how do you measure your vitamin e dosage (lotion crafter)? If I want to take 400 iu, how much should I take then? Thanks!

You can Google it
Something along the lines of "convert vitamin IU to mg".
The rule is that 1IU = 0.67mg
So, 400IU * 0.67 = 268mg
I use a syringe or a medical spoon, but since I am taking high dosage regular utensils work for me as well.

 

[Rider]

Haidut - Thanks for posting your regimen and results.

I am 35 years old and have suffered from low T (high 200's range) but have managed to get it up in the low 500s partly through supplementation of ZMA and partly through using a transdermal AI (formeron) which also lowered my E levels to a better level.

In general I feel much better but my libido and erection quality are still poor - maybe even worse than before.

So I am interested in your protocol and I have been reading as much Peat material as I have been able to absorb over the past week, but I have a few questions for you.

The dose of ZMA I take nightly has 30mg Zinc, 450mg Magnesium Aspartate, and 10.5mg Vitamin B6. ZMA is very popular among the body building community for testosterone support and I found it interesting that Peat recommends the same basic supplements. After I finish this bottle I may look into getting the specific zinc that Peat recommends.

One of the studies you cited (http://intl-physiologyonline.physiology ... 5/260.full) talks in depth about their findings on the effects of a low tryptophan diet on the behaviour of the subjects in the study. In addition to "compulsive sexual behavior", they cite negative findings corresponding to sleep, aggression, pain sensitivity, mood, and anxiety. The authors of the study paint the results negatively to say the least.

1 - Would you or anyone else who's followed a low tryptophan diet over a relevant period care to comment about whether you experienced any of these negative effects in addition to a stronger (compulsive lol) sex drive?

2 - What changes in body composition did you experience?

3 - Did you need to add Vitamin A or K along with the Vitamin E? I seem to recall reading that E depletes these vitamins but I can't remember the source (information overload)

4 - At one point you stated 3500 mg of BCAA then later wrote 7g BCAA several times a day. Is the larger dose only when you eat meat containing tryptophan? Would you recommend taking tyrosine with the BCAA's if you are not eating meat?

5 - I too am curious how long it was before you felt the effects of this diet. I have a new girlfriend and patience isn't exactly one of my virtues, at least not when it comes to this.

Thanks in advance for any clarity you can add on these topics.

 

[haidut]

I have not noticed any negative effects of low tryptophan diet, only increased libido, clarity of thought and less stomach issues. The BCAA dose I mentioned earlier was combined with tyrosine, so that's why it was lower. In other words if I am taking BCAA with tyrosine or Phe, I take less BCAA. If I only take BCAA together with my protein meals to block tryptophan transport into the brain I take higher BCAA. For me, these dosage "feel" best but it might be different for others. I do take all 4 fat soluble vitamins together but not b/c I felt that one depleted the others. Before taking all 4, I was taking only vitamin E for about 2 months and I was feeling great. I take them together now b/c they are supposed to have synergistic effect and some of the (vitamin D) are dangerous when taken on their own.
Body composition did not change dramatically while depleting tryptophan, but since my testosterone went up my muscles were feeling a lot harder and some days I felt pumped up like after going to the gym, but without actually lifting any weights. Obviously, adding an set of pushups every once in a while only amplified that feeling. Also, I felt like lifting weights even when I was tired. It just gave me that motivated pumped up feeling.
With the BCAA, the effects are almost immediate. I felt surge in libido the very next day and saliva test a week later confirmed increased testosterone.
The only comment I have about ZMA is that you should try to substitute the magnesium aspartate with a safer salt. Ray does not like the amino acid chelates except the glycinate.

 

[max219]

The BCAA from GNC contains soy lecithin. Will that be counter-productive for raising testosterone and preventing estrogen?

 

[haidut]

The BCAA from GNC contains soy lecithin. Will that be counter-productive for raising testosterone and preventing estrogen?

Depends how much lecithin is inside. Most of the time it is pretty low quantity to affect anything. If you are still concerned then you can buy the Vitamin Shoppe brand BCAA, which claims to have nothing but gelatin as a filler.

 

[JD-Max]

@ haidut, could you recommend to me any safe supplements or even point me in the direction of some articles where I could learn about long term diets which could help me raise my T levels and all around well being?

My T levels are 252 ng and I'm 36

 

[haidut]

@ haidut, could you recommend to me any safe supplements or even point me in the direction of some articles where I could learn about long term diets which could help me raise my T levels and all around well being?

My T levels are 252 ng and I'm 36

Search the forum for my posts on BCAA and depleting serotonin. There are number of things you can do, including supplementation. Aspirin, taurine, vitamin E, zinc, BCAA, etc are some of the more helpful substances for such a problem.

 

[Curt :-)]

@Haidut, thank you again! Your contributions to the forum have been fantastic, and much needed by the sounds of it

If I can ask you one more question, and I hope this isn't inappropriate, have you found at all that you get more attention from women when T levels are this high? The reason I ask is that I was once on a forum where people were discussing AAS and libido. Everyone that had used steroids were saying that the sudden attention you start getting from women when you begin juicing is quite bizarre. The overwhelming consensus was that women could "smell" testosterone (wether they meant that literally or figuratively, I don't know). I've never used AAS so I couldn't comment. This topic was of particular interest to me because I have always been fit, well dressed/groomed, and am regularly told that I am a reasonable looking dude, yet get zero attention from girls whatsoever. If there was in fact some sort of pheromone thing going on here, it would explain a lot, as I have had low T forever (but it's slowly coming back up now thanks to Peating).

Again, I hope this isn't inappropriate. Thank you for your time

 

[haidut]

@Haidut, thank you again! Your contributions to the forum have been fantastic, and much needed by the sounds of it

If I can ask you one more question, and I hope this isn't inappropriate, have you found at all that you get more attention from women when T levels are this high? The reason I ask is that I was once on a forum where people were discussing AAS and libido. Everyone that had used steroids were saying that the sudden attention you start getting from women when you begin juicing is quite bizarre. The overwhelming consensus was that women could "smell" testosterone (wether they meant that literally or figuratively, I don't know). I've never used AAS so I couldn't comment. This topic was of particular interest to me because I have always been fit, well dressed/groomed, and am regularly told that I am a reasonable looking dude, yet get zero attention from girls whatsoever. If there was in fact some sort of pheromone thing going on here, it would explain a lot, as I have had low T forever (but it's slowly coming back up now thanks to Peating).

Again, I hope this isn't inappropriate. Thank you for your time

There is a lot of research in this area and some of the conclusions are quire controversial. Long story short - it seems that women prefer the T-dominant men when they are ovulating and as such interested mostly in sex and not in a relationship. When close to their period, women prefer less dominant men. At least that's what the research says, and I buy it to a degree but I have seen people lust after each other where the men did not look anything like hunks in good shape. In my opinion, confidence stemming from feeling secure about your image and direction in life carries more weight than looks.

That being said, if you are looking for pheromones that can help you - pregnenolone is a very good start. It seems to metabolize into a well-known pheromone called androstenone. Here is a study:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3654919
A more direct route would be to buy directly an "androstenone spray". A number of online stores sell it and it is used to check if female pigs are in heat and ready to get impregnated. When you spray it on their snouts they assume a mating position if they are in their fertile period. Keep in mind that it could be a double-edged sword. I remember reading somewhere that although it did help with getting attention from the women, it also got (aggressive) attention from the men and some people got into physical fights. So, men seem to be able to smell it too and can react aggressively since they'll view you as a competitor for the chicks.
So, safest bet would be to take pregnenolone IMHO. It has a lot of benefits and I have not heard of anyone getting into fights after taking it On the other hand there have been reports of it increasing interest from the opposite sex - both men and women. So, in theory, women could take it too to get more attention from the men, but I doubt most women would need to resort to such tactics
I hope that helps...and keep us posted how it goes. If you get into a fight I refuse to accept any responsibility