Sexual Liberation The Downfall Of A Society

Luann

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"complete degeneracy" is a false option in my part of the US, so no need to contrast this shadow self with your "spiritual self". your shadow self would starve for lack of options, or simply listen to reason once he got into a good relationship.

Idk where some of you all live, but it must be very different from where I live

cause where I live, people are having LESS sex and less varied sex than in past. as life gets more expensive, the more people hunker down into monogamy because they're lucky to have gf / bf / spouse and they can't risk blowing that up.

the funny thing is I know young men who are of the age and have the looks, status, situational awareness to be taking part in this "degeneracy" you describe but as a rule they are not! I can think of at least four guys who I would think have many female options but are either in a serious relationship... or getting to know a couple of women. and the latter, as far as I know, are havin a mutually good time with these women, with long talks, having coffee or meals together, etc. it's not hookup culture AND these men i speak of are all like 24 or 25. and already their shadow self has run out of steam or of options. within a lifespan of 75 eyars or so that's nothing.

even when one of you gave an example of being more ambivalent about sex, it was just "more than one woman at once, didn't care about her feelings, did it with a married woman for the ego boost". Sorry but that is not total degeneracy.

TLDR, sexual freedom and hook-up culture have not ruined the west... cause they don't really exist here at least in my part of the woods

spoiler, I'm not a feminist. I'm a Neither.

edit: please excuse the rough tone here I respect the opinions of other posters and would like to offer mine as well. thanks for reading
 

R J

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I think some ancient people were far more advanced than us. Look at how the Egyptians created tetracycline via their beer fermenting process centuries before modern scientists even knew about it. Many ancient people were far more in tune with their instincts and living naturally than people are today.

However, I do think it's important to appreciate modern advances; the key is simply to drop the ego. Instead of being grateful for what we have and respecting the natural order of things, we tend to put ourselves on a pedestal and fall victim to extreme hubris, discarding any and all wisdom from our ancient ancestors.

Part of dropping hubris is realizing that I want to be part of the "depravity" and "degeneracy." To completely give in to lust and be able to sleep with whatever women I want without caring about any repercussions. As much as I like to imagine being a higher, best version of myself, I know the shadow is lurking there at all times. And if anything, quitting porn and ejaculation has just intensified my craving for actual sex with real women, and a variety of them at that.

There's the "lower" part of me that knows while I'm going on this spiritual journey, improving myself, working on controlling my sexual urges, my ex and other women are probably getting f***ed right now by some guy who doesn't care at all. Enjoying lust and ego and everything. I feel jealous about that until I realize I used to be that guy. Not extensively, but at one point in time I was. The guy who didn't care if a woman was in a relationship. My ex had a boyfriend at the time and I simply did not care at all, for example. I also entertained a woman I knew was married but wanted to have sex with me. It was total ego and hubris. I felt like a stud, I felt like the man.

Part of this is "macho" culture and thinking that if women want you, it means you're a real man. Like you're the big dog if some guy's wife wants you. Look at the influx of cuckolding porn these days. It's not a coincidence. Everyone thinks it's because modern men are effeminate cucks and are attracted to that kind of stuff. But there are a lot of men who are not watching that porn, but living it in real life, as in, screwing around with married women and women with boyfriends, and thinking that makes them a man. Like getting off on women choosing them over other guys they've already committed to.

The ego wants to be the big dog, the stud. "Look at me, I'm so good at sex, look at me, I'm such a stud, look at me, all these women want my ****." IMO every man and every woman have to acknowledge this hubris lurking in their psyche. I find it exceptionally irritating when I've talked to friends that play up celibacy and say they wish they could eradicate all sexual desire forever, because it ruined their lives.

It will never be eradicated. Especially if we never take an honest look at our urges. Remember Brave New World? The guy kills himself at the end for partaking in the degeneracy of the culture. It was his shadow the whole time. There was a part of him that he was ashamed of and never faced; the part of him that was not spiritual, the part of him that didn't care about anything but pleasure and ego. So he lost control and then couldn't live with the shame after.

If you're going to esteem spirituality and sexual morality, you have to face the shadow. That's the current struggle I'm in. To resist temptation, you have to very closely understand what that temptation is. Otherwise you'll fall prey to it. I've been there done that with these urges. Not extensively, but I've participated in enough morally reprehensible sexual activity, such as the cases I mentioned, to know what it's like.

Quitting porn is nowhere near as difficult as controlling yourself when, for example, a woman is throwing herself at you. I think that's the real test. If you're able to control your urges and make good decisions for both yourself and other people, in the face of actual temptation.

If anything, the "degenerate" modern culture is a great opportunity for spiritual growth. There's temptation everywhere. Infinite opportunities to practice. The temptation is even worse because nowadays most people will not even judge you for most sexual behavior. The hardest thing is making choices that are going to have a positive impact for you and other people.

So yes, we're in a sexually degenerate culture. But remember Brave New World and that all of us are going to be tempted to take part in it, to fully indulge in it. That is the absolute hardest test. And one I'm going through lately. "Know thy enemy"....that means know your urges and desires, and know them deeply. The most at risk people are the ones who are completely unaware of the sexual urges lurking in their psyche, or even believe that they don't have them at all.
Based and high vibration-pilled
 

tankasnowgod

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I think some ancient people were far more advanced than us. Look at how the Egyptians created tetracycline via their beer fermenting process centuries before modern scientists even knew about it. Many ancient people were far more in tune with their instincts and living naturally than people are today.

There's far better examples than that. Look at structures like the pyramids. We can't recreate those structures today, as least with publicly available technology. Look how much was taken to move the rock known as "Levitated Mass" at the LACMA-



Yet Ancient cultures moved that size of rock and greater quite regularly-



Slave labor alone just ain't getting that done. Either people back then were far larger than we are now, had access to greater powers within themselves, and/or had far superior technology.
 

R J

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"complete degeneracy" is a false option in my part of the US, so no need to contrast this shadow self with your "spiritual self". your shadow self would starve for lack of options, or simply listen to reason once he got into a good relationship.

Idk where some of you all live, but it must be very different from where I live

cause where I live, people are having LESS sex and less varied sex than in past. as life gets more expensive, the more people hunker down into monogamy because they're lucky to have gf / bf / spouse and they can't risk blowing that up.

the funny thing is I know young men who are of the age and have the looks, status, situational awareness to be taking part in this "degeneracy" you describe but as a rule they are not! I can think of at least four guys who I would think have many female options but are either in a serious relationship... or getting to know a couple of women. and the latter, as far as I know, are havin a mutually good time with these women, with long talks, having coffee or meals together, etc. it's not hookup culture AND these men i speak of are all like 24 or 25. and already their shadow self has run out of steam or of options. within a lifespan of 75 eyars or so that's nothing.

even when one of you gave an example of being more ambivalent about sex, it was just "more than one woman at once, didn't care about her feelings, did it with a married woman for the ego boost". Sorry but that is not total degeneracy.

TLDR, sexual freedom and hook-up culture have not ruined the west... cause they don't really exist here at least in my part of the woods

spoiler, I'm not a feminist. I'm a Neither.

edit: please excuse the rough tone here I respect the opinions of other posters and would like to offer mine as well. thanks for reading

Well quite honestly your sample size of four guys doesn’t matter and also women have a different view of these things. Most guys who I know of with the ability to access lots of different vageens do it. Also your post is a little willingly illogical so I don’t put much stock in it

And edit: you say messing with married women isn’t total degeneracy, it’s just as bad as men fisting eachother on a honor scale. Willingly Disrupting a marriage is really messed up.
 
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Ableton

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We are close to reaching a critical melting point. Women's hypergamy has reached stratosferic levels. Below average and average men are finding themselves without the possiblity of a romantic or sexual partner.
Average women now share high-tier men for casual sex and see no reason to mate with average men.
There will be a revolution. Men will wake up.

nothing is going to happen as long as men are jerking their micro dicks off to porn and are fine with getting a women who "grew out of her party phase" who they can buy a house once they have "their ***t together"

hell, simping culture is just starting to go mainstream. just look at reddit comments: every criticism of female degeneracy is immediately frowned upon by dozens of whiteknights. They represent the majority, not some fringe incels or redpillers or whatever
 

R J

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nothing is going to happen as long as men are jerking their micro dicks off to porn and are fine with getting a women who "grew out of her party phase" who they can buy a house once they have "their ***t together"

hell, simping culture is just starting to go mainstream. just look at reddit comments: every criticism of female degeneracy is immediately frowned upon by dozens of whiteknights. They represent the majority, not some fringe incels or redpillers or whatever

Maybe you can read evola? his writing helps me realize the nobility in cultivating inner strength in this topic. It shouldn’t really depress you and you shouldn’t despair

Just never masturbate again and you’ll be ok
 
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Ableton

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Maybe you can read evola? his writing helps me realize the nobility in cultivating inner strength in this topic. It shouldn’t really depress you and you shouldn’t despair

Just never masturbate again and you’ll be ok

im not going to cope with philosophy, I am going to act according to my believes even if it hurts. And I’m going to looksmax. It‘s going to be on others to marry these girls later. I am completely aware the hedonistic treadmill doesn’t lead to happiness either, but I can still cope with philosophy and meditation once I’m 35. once you see the rules of the game, it’s on you whether you want to take action or ignore whats going on
 

Luann

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Well quite honestly your sample size of four guys doesn’t matter and also women have a different view of these things. Most guys who I know of with the ability to access lots of different vageens do it. Also your post is a little willingly illogical so I don’t put much stock in it

And edit: you say messing with married women isn’t total degeneracy...Willingly Disrupting a marriage is really messed up.

Sure, actually I think it kinda reiterates what I'm saying, that my sample size is small. I simply don't know a lot of men that, and again it's just my observation, but that would have access to a world like that.

Woman. not women. sure, sex with a married woman is wrong, and more over it's harmful for society. i actually am not arguing against that. i'm just saying that one example of that doesn't compute to me, as complete degeneracy or sexual "freedom".

also, at the risk of getting too detailed, I have to wonder about your own sample. when you say "access to a lot of women" I have to ask how you quantify "a lot of women" and at what cost.
 
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I think @Jib pretty much put the last nail in the coffin for the main concerns over this title/discussion.

I also was 100% with out a doubt certain that this subject would definitely branch out to lookism, blackpill stuff, etc.

I think it's wise to focus on looks because of what they can get you/do you for and others, but also wise to realize the details of such and consequences, ego and so on. It is pretty ironic that some call society degenerate, but some also complain that they cannot engage fully in said degeneracy and make this anger or void within themselves. I mean if you see it all as nasty, trashy and evil, bottom of the barrel disgust and contempt, why would it upset one so much that they are not part of it -- and for so long too? That's like saying I hate partying/everything about the nature of such an event and the people within it/that participate, but I seethe internally because I never get invited to any to experience the very same things I hate.

If you hate sexual liberation, degeneracy, and all of those participating in it, why would you keep yourself stressed and agitated over this fact/hold it over yourself non-stop? That's the thing I don't understand about the whole blackpill discussion -- that it talks about how everything is horrible and falling apart because of "fixed" things you can not change in any way, but you are a "loser" if you are not part of the so-called degeneracy and ruin of civilization to 'X' certain extent or other variable goalpost moving sentiments. So everything is collapsing, evil, sick and twisted, but if you are not co-existing with all of this stuff to an exact nature then you are the "loser" of life? Couldn't you just as easily call those who are "devolving" themselves to nothingness and/or savagery and not questioning many of their choices/consequences as the real losers, by this same logic? Why is it only "genetic superiority" vs. "genetic inferiority," as if there's any solid evidence that genes themselves are the dictators of everything you are or come to be, taking things back to the whole Aryan game of eugenics and lackluster science to back it up.

For example, the way I write and see things now is not "passed on" really. I don't really think any one else I've known has been as insightful or caring of philosophical discussion to the extent I have gone before (mostly because I think many people spend time engaging/jumping from thing-to-thing with no questioning of their part in it or what it actually means). I wonder where the "philosopher gene" came from? In my view it is shaped by experiences and how I was shaped through/in them, however definable you want to believe it is. If it weren't for certain conditions to have been met I would probably never have been here posting this or questioning things at all like this even. But I am pretty sure there is no gene responsible for me coming to any realization but a matter of lived circumstances as pretty much most things are, as opposed to some who see the world as purely "pre-defined" and thus no input/output would matter in the past, present or future because "the world is what it is," but largely ignore what made it that way outside of hocus pocus. I think it's ironic that some who strive away from any from God or spirituality also talk things like deep cynicism or etc. where they see the world as uncontrollable and thus do not make any effort to evaluate, alter or bring new things to light. You do not believe in a "God" but believe things magically just happen with no explanation and just accept it? That sounds a bit like what some would stereotype as "God fearing" or religio-insane, comical-esque individuals who believe "God decides all" or "God is the answer to all" but offer no further insight as to what that means or why it should mean anything. Some who "hate God" also seem to ironically follow in the same footsteps as some of their God fearing "opposites," treating all conditions of the world as random and not to be concerned over/desired to change. I guess some people might just pick their favorite "invisible enemy" in different ways for possibly different reasons.

I mean other than the subject of lookism and how looks can affect life and judgment/health, and are a reflection possibly to an extent of health/physiology and so on, the blackpill stuff seems to be a hole to dig yourself in with no real endgame or benefit for anyone. I guess I could call myself a "surface blackpiller" as I can't see any reason to delve more in to the rabbit hole than just focusing on the looks argument, which of course seems sensible, reasonable and suited to anyone who cares about social systems and related topics. But the whole other crap about genetic superiority/inferiority, supreme gentlemen, "value" and purpose in a society are just ego-tapping, time wasting circle jerks of nonsense and self-eradication and/or inflation. Then again I could be a "genetically inferior cuck" to another onlooker, but I guess that's the way the cookie crumbles (or doesn't?)! But none of this matters clearly -- I'm just a coping loser of the "gene lottery" & nothing else matters besides doing prime JBs & dem "jaw genes."
 
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Ableton

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I think @Jib

I think it's wise to focus on looks because of what they can get you/do you for and others, but also wise to realize the details of such and consequences, ego and so on. It is pretty ironic that some call society degenerate, but some also complain that they cannot engage fully in said degeneracy and make this anger or void within themselves. I mean if you see it all as nasty, trashy and evil, bottom of the barrel disgust and contempt, why would it upset one so much that they are not part of it -- and for so long too? That's like saying I hate partying/everything about the nature of such an event and the people within it/that participate, but I seethe internally because I never get invited to any to experience the very same things I hate.

If you hate sexual liberation, degeneracy, and all of those participating in it, why would you keep yourself stressed and agitated over this fact/hold it over yourself non-stop? That's the thing I don't understand about the whole blackpill discussion -- that it talks about how everything is horrible and falling apart because of "fixed" things you can not change in any way, but you are a "loser" if you are not part of the so-called degeneracy and ruin of civilization to 'X' certain extent or other variable goalpost moving sentiments. So everything is collapsing, evil, sick and twisted, but if you are not co-existing with all of this stuff to an exact nature then you are the "loser" of life? Couldn't you just as easily call those who are devolving themselves to nothingness and not questioning many of their choices/consequences as the real losers, by this same logic? Why is it only "genetic superiority" vs. "genetic inferiority," as if there's any solid evidence that genes themselves are the dictators of everything you are or come to be, taking things back to the whole Aryan game of eugenics and lackluster science to back it up.

For example, the way I write and see things now is not "passed on" really. I don't really think any one else I've known has been as insightful or caring of philosophical discussion to the extent I have gone before (mostly because I think many people spend time engaging/jumping from thing-to-thing with no questioning of their part in it or what it actually means). I wonder where the "philosopher gene" came from? In my view it is shaped by experiences and how I was shaped through/in them, however definable you want to believe it is. If it weren't for certain conditions to have been met I would probably never have been here posting this or questioning things at all like this even. But I am pretty sure there is no gene responsible for me coming to any realization but a matter of lived circumstances as pretty much most things are, as opposed to some who see the world as purely "pre-defined" and thus no input/output would matter in the past, present or future because "the world is what it is," but largely ignore what made it that way outside of hocus pocus. I think it's ironic that some who strive away from any from God or spirituality also talk things like deep cynicism or etc. where they see the world as uncontrollable and thus do not make any effort to evaluate, alter or bring new things to light. You do not believe in a "God" but believe things magically just happen with no explanation and just accept it? That sounds a bit like what some would stereotype as "God fearing" or religio-insane, comical-esque individuals who believe "God decides all" or "God is the answer to all" but offer no further insight as to what that means or why it should mean anything. Some who "hate God" also seem to ironically follow in the same footsteps as some of their God fearing "opposites," treating all conditions of the world as random and not to be concerned over/desired to change. I guess some people might just pick their favorite "invisible enemy" in different ways for possibly different reasons.

I mean other than the subject of lookism and how looks can affect life and judgment/health, and are a reflection possibly to an extent of health/physiology and so on, the blackpill stuff seems to be a hole to dig yourself in with no real endgame or benefit for anyone. I guess I could call myself a "surface blackpiller" as I can't see any reason to delve more in to the rabbit hole than just focusing on the looks argument, which of course seems sensible, reasonable and suited to anyone who cares about social systems and related topics. But the whole other crap about genetic superiority/inferiority, supreme gentlemen, "value" and purpose in a society are just ego-tapping, time wasting circle jerks of nonsense and self-eradication and/or inflation. Then again I could be a "genetically inferior cuck" to another onlooker, but I guess that's the way the cookie crumbles (or doesn't?)! But none of this matters clearly -- I'm just a coping loser of the "gene lottery" & nothing else matters besides doing prime JBs & dem "jaw genes."

people complaining about sexual liberation do not usually do it because they can not partake in it, they do it because it renders a traditional family concept unattainable. we basically want what our parents had: a meaningful relationship with a loving and loyal woman that you meet when both are young to grow old with and build something with. you can probably tell that this is extremely beneficial to civilizations as well.

taking part in the degeneracy is just a nasty cop out because women like this are hard to find in the west due to sexual liberation. you are free to disagree on that.

some parents would be very surprised about the n counts their little angels have, and I am not coming exclusively from internet anecdotes when I say this.
 

Ableton

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who profits from sexual liberation? who do you think can attain a more exciting love life?
guy on the right literally has to work his **** off at university to get girl on the left, who is more recessed, once she is "past her party phase"
how is guy on the right supposed to get laid without offering extremely significant compensation in form of money or status for his face, undesirable pheno etc.
In order to get crumbs of sex with anything close to his looksmatch, this guy basically has to do everything right in life

meanwhile girl on the left makes thousands on onlyfans, then puts fakeup on to sleep around way out of her league. this is the reality average men are confronted with
 

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R J

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who profits from sexual liberation? who do you think can attain a more exciting love life?
guy on the right literally has to work his **** off at university to get girl on the left, who is more recessed, once she is "past her party phase"
how is guy on the right supposed to get laid without offering extremely significant compensation in form of money or status for his face, undesirable pheno etc.
In order to get crumbs of sex with anything close to his looksmatch, this guy basically has to do everything right in life

meanwhile girl on the left makes thousands on onlyfans, then puts fakeup on to sleep around way out of her league. this is the reality average men are confronted with

Why should any woman want to be with a despair ridden attitude like yours tho? Honestly. Make the best of what you got. All you do is cry over spilled milk and then tell people they are coping when it’s you who have internalized the cope— you literally are a manifestation of cope. Last post here because my psychic shield against ur vibrations is hard to maintain
 

Ableton

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Why should any woman want to be with a despair ridden attitude like yours tho? Honestly. Make the best of what you got. All you do is cry over spilled milk and then tell people they are coping when it’s you who have internalized the cope— you literally are a manifestation of cope. Last post here because my psychic shield against ur vibrations is hard to maintain
I wish I had your deduction skills. Saying your opinion in a forum = dispair ridden attitude in real life/social settings
Who asked for psychoanalysis here? Just stick to the topic
 

R J

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@Ableton I had to put your profile on ignore for now because your attitudes and views were almost breaching my psychic shield. I used to willingly think a lot like you before and it took a ton of energy to move away from it. When I see a brother I can offer help to and then the response is “that’s philosophy cope I don’t need until I reach (pre determined age)” — that’s too much like an old man style thinking and I don’t want any part of it. A stronger version of I could openly read your responses and not be negatively moved , and I’m working there but aren’t perfect.
 
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GreekDemiGod

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nothing is going to happen as long as men are jerking their micro dicks off to porn and are fine with getting a women who "grew out of her party phase" who they can buy a house once they have "their ***t together"

hell, simping culture is just starting to go mainstream. just look at reddit comments: every criticism of female degeneracy is immediately frowned upon by dozens of whiteknights. They represent the majority, not some fringe incels or redpillers or whatever
It's mostly liberal, left-leaning men that are the problem here They support the sexual liberation and depravation of women, they are strongly conditioned by feminine-centric ideas of Western ''culture''. They simp and orbit women whose egos get higher and higher since they get attention from so many men. This directly promotes hypergamy.
Low-tier men will keep jerking off.
It's actually when mid-tier or average men will realize the system is rigged, when a revolt is possible. They form the majority
 

Vinny

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Anders86

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I think some ancient people were far more advanced than us. Look at how the Egyptians created tetracycline via their beer fermenting process centuries before modern scientists even knew about it. Many ancient people were far more in tune with their instincts and living naturally than people are today.

However, I do think it's important to appreciate modern advances; the key is simply to drop the ego. Instead of being grateful for what we have and respecting the natural order of things, we tend to put ourselves on a pedestal and fall victim to extreme hubris, discarding any and all wisdom from our ancient ancestors.

Part of dropping hubris is realizing that I want to be part of the "depravity" and "degeneracy." To completely give in to lust and be able to sleep with whatever women I want without caring about any repercussions. As much as I like to imagine being a higher, best version of myself, I know the shadow is lurking there at all times. And if anything, quitting porn and ejaculation has just intensified my craving for actual sex with real women, and a variety of them at that.

There's the "lower" part of me that knows while I'm going on this spiritual journey, improving myself, working on controlling my sexual urges, my ex and other women are probably getting f***ed right now by some guy who doesn't care at all. Enjoying lust and ego and everything. I feel jealous about that until I realize I used to be that guy. Not extensively, but at one point in time I was. The guy who didn't care if a woman was in a relationship. My ex had a boyfriend at the time and I simply did not care at all, for example. I also entertained a woman I knew was married but wanted to have sex with me. It was total ego and hubris. I felt like a stud, I felt like the man.

Part of this is "macho" culture and thinking that if women want you, it means you're a real man. Like you're the big dog if some guy's wife wants you. Look at the influx of cuckolding porn these days. It's not a coincidence. Everyone thinks it's because modern men are effeminate cucks and are attracted to that kind of stuff. But there are a lot of men who are not watching that porn, but living it in real life, as in, screwing around with married women and women with boyfriends, and thinking that makes them a man. Like getting off on women choosing them over other guys they've already committed to.

The ego wants to be the big dog, the stud. "Look at me, I'm so good at sex, look at me, I'm such a stud, look at me, all these women want my ****." IMO every man and every woman have to acknowledge this hubris lurking in their psyche. I find it exceptionally irritating when I've talked to friends that play up celibacy and say they wish they could eradicate all sexual desire forever, because it ruined their lives.

It will never be eradicated. Especially if we never take an honest look at our urges. Remember Brave New World? The guy kills himself at the end for partaking in the degeneracy of the culture. It was his shadow the whole time. There was a part of him that he was ashamed of and never faced; the part of him that was not spiritual, the part of him that didn't care about anything but pleasure and ego. So he lost control and then couldn't live with the shame after.

If you're going to esteem spirituality and sexual morality, you have to face the shadow. That's the current struggle I'm in. To resist temptation, you have to very closely understand what that temptation is. Otherwise you'll fall prey to it. I've been there done that with these urges. Not extensively, but I've participated in enough morally reprehensible sexual activity, such as the cases I mentioned, to know what it's like.

Quitting porn is nowhere near as difficult as controlling yourself when, for example, a woman is throwing herself at you. I think that's the real test. If you're able to control your urges and make good decisions for both yourself and other people, in the face of actual temptation.

If anything, the "degenerate" modern culture is a great opportunity for spiritual growth. There's temptation everywhere. Infinite opportunities to practice. The temptation is even worse because nowadays most people will not even judge you for most sexual behavior. The hardest thing is making choices that are going to have a positive impact for you and other people.

So yes, we're in a sexually degenerate culture. But remember Brave New World and that all of us are going to be tempted to take part in it, to fully indulge in it. That is the absolute hardest test. And one I'm going through lately. "Know thy enemy"....that means know your urges and desires, and know them deeply. The most at risk people are the ones who are completely unaware of the sexual urges lurking in their psyche, or even believe that they don't have them at all.
:clapping:
 
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