Sexual Liberation The Downfall Of A Society

Being

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How interesting:

Sex and culture by Joseph Unwin https://www.amazon.com.au/Sex-Culture-Joseph-Daniel-Unwin/dp/1979867046

He studied 80 different nations and 6 civilizations throughout history, examined their individual rises and falls, and concluded that the causes of their falls were largely determined by the loosening of sexual conventions and lessening of monogamous relationships.


summary
  1. Effect of sexual constraints: Increased sexual constraints, either pre or post-nuptial, always led to increased flourishing of a culture. Conversely, increased sexual freedom always led to the collapse of a culture three generations later.

  2. Single most influential factor: Surprisingly, the data revealed that the single most important correlation with the flourishing of a culture was whether pre-nuptial chastity was required or not. It had a very significant effect either way.

  3. Highest flourishing of culture: The most powerful combination was pre-nuptial chastity coupled with “absolute monogamy”. Rationalist cultures that retained this combination for at least three generations exceeded all other cultures in every area, including literature, art, science, furniture, architecture, engineering, and agriculture. Only three out of the eighty-six cultures studied ever attained this level.

  4. Effect of abandoning prenuptial chastity: When strict prenuptial chastity was no longer the norm, absolute monogamy, deism, and rational thinking also disappeared within three generations.

  5. Total sexual freedom: If total sexual freedom was embraced by a culture, that culture collapsed within three generations to the lowest state of flourishing — which Unwin describes as “inert” and at a “dead level of conception” and is characterized by people who have little interest in much else other than their own wants and needs. At this level, the culture is usually conquered or taken over by another culture with greater social energy.

  6. Time lag: If there is a change in sexual constraints, either increased or decreased restraints, the full effect of that change is not realized until the third generation. (Note: I’ve added a clarifying footnote at the end of this article. See footnote #13)

    (Summary from Why Sexual Morality May be Far More Important than You Ever Thought — Quest)
————-
I wonder why we’ve seen such a rapid over sexualisation of western culture?

The highly sexual influence from pop culture has been intense since the 90s (when I was born haha, can’t speak for before that).

Do you think it happened naturally?
Or could it be rival nations trying to crash the empire through pop culture and food (high estrogen causing over sexualisation)?
 

lvysaur

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The highly sexual influence from pop culture has been intense since the 90s
You mean the 60s. And even before this chastity was pretty uncommon, it's why marrying at conception was so common. Kids have been dating since the 1920s at least, maybe even earlier.
Do you think it happened naturally?
Or could it be rival nations trying to crash the empire through pop culture
Naturally. The lowest common denominator, the cheapest stuff, tends to be the unhealthiest--no conspiracy needed, just profit motive. There may be some conspiracy but even if there is, it is irrelevant. The propaganda only works because the citizenry consumes it.

It's the same as liberals accusing Russia of "sowing chaos". Even if the Russians are doing so, it's the Americans' fault for being so easily incitable.

Its like keeping a big tank of gasoline in your room, and blaming someone for the static electricity that makes your house explode.
 

TheSir

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At the very least, it's clear that sexual liberation and fall of civilizations go hand in hand. What is less clear is whether one follows the other, or both share a common cause. Sexual liberation could be a symptom of a larger societal deteroriation, which is a natural part of the civilizational cycle. Not just chastity, but rationality, altruism, patience, kindness, creativity, health and optimisim all seem to decline together. An increase in sexual behavior could be a means of compensating for all the ways in which the society around the individual is decaying and the subconscious stress this is causing. That much is true though that chastity on an indidual level tends to lead to excellent outcomes regarding one's wellbeing and success in one's endeavours. It's just difficult to extrapolate this to societal level because the factors you end up dealing with become so numerous.
 

Experienced

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I wonder why we’ve seen such a rapid over sexualisation of western culture?

The highly sexual influence from pop culture has been intense since the 90s (when I was born haha, can’t speak for before that).

Do you think it happened naturally?
Or could it be rival nations trying to crash the empire through pop culture and food (high estrogen causing over sexualisation)?
PART THREE - The Pornography Chambers : Mouthy Buddha : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
 

Jessie

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I agree, but I think the "sexual liberation" is probably used as a scapegoat for the more broad reality. That being existential nihilism, when improperly applied, or left unchecked, tends to be the downfall of a society. And in fact, it's really not even a indictment of existential nihilism.

Existential nihilism brings balance to the many moralistic views of the world, which is important. But when it starts to become imbalanced problems will arise. Society advances through the reality (or illusion) of purpose. If the entire world was filled with nothing but the proverbial "superman" that Nietzsche speaks of, then we would've never made it this far.

However bringing balance to moralism is important, because when moralism is left unchecked very evil things happen. Some the darkest events in history were due to the misguided notions of moralism, look no further than Mussolini or Hitler. Unchecked moralism has a dead end, and it's authoritarianism. Nihilism has a dead end, it's called chaos. These two tend to balance each other.
 

Ableton

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I think at a basal level it comes down to the fact that on some level, men achieve (culture) to get sex/create offspring. I see it in myself as well (not proud to admit this): If I masturbate a lot or have lots of sex in a short period of time, my thrive to accomplish anything is radically reduced. In long phases of not getting sexual intimacy and abstaining my motivation to progress in life increases. When you liberate sexual nature however, it is not achievement that will get you sex (mostly), it is your genetic value. Prime fertile women who are not depended on a provider will not sleep with a 5'4 skinny fat dude just because he is a doctor. When the short, skinny fat doctor starts to realize this, his motivation to achieve tanks. On the contrary, if societies structure guaranteed him to find a young woman who hasn't been with (many) men with higher genetical value (pair-bonding problem) for a monogamous relationship, he will work his ass off all life to pass on his genes, have a traditional family and so on.
Societies collapse when men realize this. This is basically the incel "bluepill vs. blackpill" narrative written out, and there is a lot of truth to it, whether people like to admit it or not. Sexual nature is almost completely detached from culture, and only cultural constraints will keep them together, which is necessary for a functioning society.
In hunter gatherer societies apparently 1 in 18 men or something along those lines reproduced. The result? War. State of nature.
It took implementing some form of spiritualism (aka culture) to get more men laid and have a functioning society: The believe that if a woman slept with more men, they would all pass on their best traits to the child (and the child would have multiple fathers). Now you actually have an incentive to get good traits.

How to solve? Reduce sexual liberation (Shariah law would be an example there). Obviously that is coming with problems (unhappy women for example)

Implementing new forms of spiritualism (not gonna happen)

Better copes for men who don't get sex: Sex robots instead of vr porn, onlyfans mirroring intimate relationships and so on.

I think we are currently heading towards the last option, as it seems to be the natural result of the social liberal late capitalist system.

Sexual liberation is just revealing the sexual nature of men and women and it's not compatible with cultural progress at all.
 
Last edited:

Experienced

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I think at a basal level it comes down to the fact that on some level, men achieve (culture) to get sex/create offspring. I see it in myself as well (not proud to admit this): If I masturbate a lot or have lots of sex in a short period of time, my thrive to accomplish anything is radically reduced. In long phases of not getting sexual intimacy and abstaining my motivation to progress in life increases. When you liberate sexual nature however, it is not achievement that will get you sex (mostly), it is your genetic value. Prime fertile women who are not depended on a provider will not sleep with a 5'4 skinny fat dude just because he is a doctor. When the short, skinny fat doctor starts to realize this, his motivation to achieve tanks. On the contrary, if societies structure guaranteed him to find a young woman who hasn't been with (many) men with higher genetical value (pair-bonding problem) for a monogamous relationship, he will work his ass off all life to pass on his genes, have a traditional family and so on.
Societies collapse when men realize this. This is basically the incel "bluepill vs. blackpill" narrative written out, and there is a lot of truth to it, whether people like to admit it or not. Sexual nature is almost completely detached from culture, and only cultural constraints will keep them together, which is necessary for a functioning society.
check what I posted above here :)
 

Ableton

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check what I posted above here :)
yeah man IDK I haven't really dipped into the antisemitic rabbit hole yet. some of it makes sense to me but it seems impossible to discover the truth.
as a german and having grandparents who experienced hitler and told me about society and war first hand, I can tell you that I am definitely not buying the argument that "hitler was a decent man". If there is some jewish conspiracy, it also does not mean that most jewish people are not decent people.
What I do find intriguing about hitler though is that eugenics are still playing out naturally in a sexually liberated society. If you are a white nordic chad with blue eyes it's impossible for you not to win at life, and that's pretty much a fact. Just like porn releases dopamine, seeing and interacting with attractive people releases dopamine in the human brain. Attractive people are like a drug as well. Brutal.
 

TheSir

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Prime fertile women who are not depended on a provider will not sleep with a 5'4 skinny fat dude just because he is a doctor. When the short, skinny fat doctor starts to realize this, his motivation to achieve tanks
Why would his motivation tank if his doctorate does not turn out to be valuable in dating (which is generally not the case, since doctorate gives some of the highest amount of social proof in the west)?

Societies collapse when men realize this.
Realize what exactly?

In hunter gatherer societies apparently 1 in 18 men or something along those lines reproduced. The result? War. State of nature.
Note that this was a temporary phemonenon during the early agricultural era. In hunter-gatherer societies, including modern ones, practically all males reproduce.

Sexual nature is almost completely detached from culture
Is this not an unexpected sentiment considering how in above paragraph you were talking about height and doctorates, both of which are mostly cultural preferences?

Sexual liberation is just revealing the sexual nature of men and women and it's not compatible with cultural progress at all.
I think that rather than anything being revealed, we are seeing a severe perversion of sexualities of men and women alike. I agree that such perversion is not compatible with cultural progress: it is an antithesis to any kind of progress, as are all forms of hedonism. Culture is born first out of accepting and then out of harnessing one's sexuality, not out of indulging in it to the point of perversion and debility.
 

PxD

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How interesting:

Sex and culture by Joseph Unwin https://www.amazon.com.au/Sex-Culture-Joseph-Daniel-Unwin/dp/1979867046

He studied 80 different nations and 6 civilizations throughout history, examined their individual rises and falls, and concluded that the causes of their falls were largely determined by the loosening of sexual conventions and lessening of monogamous relationships.


summary
  1. Effect of sexual constraints: Increased sexual constraints, either pre or post-nuptial, always led to increased flourishing of a culture. Conversely, increased sexual freedom always led to the collapse of a culture three generations later.

  2. Single most influential factor: Surprisingly, the data revealed that the single most important correlation with the flourishing of a culture was whether pre-nuptial chastity was required or not. It had a very significant effect either way.

  3. Highest flourishing of culture: The most powerful combination was pre-nuptial chastity coupled with “absolute monogamy”. Rationalist cultures that retained this combination for at least three generations exceeded all other cultures in every area, including literature, art, science, furniture, architecture, engineering, and agriculture. Only three out of the eighty-six cultures studied ever attained this level.

  4. Effect of abandoning prenuptial chastity: When strict prenuptial chastity was no longer the norm, absolute monogamy, deism, and rational thinking also disappeared within three generations.

  5. Total sexual freedom: If total sexual freedom was embraced by a culture, that culture collapsed within three generations to the lowest state of flourishing — which Unwin describes as “inert” and at a “dead level of conception” and is characterized by people who have little interest in much else other than their own wants and needs. At this level, the culture is usually conquered or taken over by another culture with greater social energy.

  6. Time lag: If there is a change in sexual constraints, either increased or decreased restraints, the full effect of that change is not realized until the third generation. (Note: I’ve added a clarifying footnote at the end of this article. See footnote #13)

    (Summary from Why Sexual Morality May be Far More Important than You Ever Thought — Quest)
————-
I wonder why we’ve seen such a rapid over sexualisation of western culture?

The highly sexual influence from pop culture has been intense since the 90s (when I was born haha, can’t speak for before that).

Do you think it happened naturally?
Or could it be rival nations trying to crash the empire through pop culture and food (high estrogen causing over sexualisation)?

It started in full force in the 60s and the politicization of that agenda came from and still comes from the Left. So, I think it was at least partly deliberate. It's moved from "free love"/promiscuity, to abortion and legalization of pornography (1960s-1970s), to promotion of homosexuality (early 2000s), transgenderism and gender fluidity (~2012) and now lately a first push into normalizing pedophilia. All of that has been set against a background of hypersexualization that's promoted in media and pop culture.

I think the natural part of it is that it's just one part of cultural decadence that then leads to downfall, rather than it alone being the cause of the downfall. The decadence arises, IMO, when a culture achieves success, has no challenges left to beat and starts to engage in long-term destructive behaviors because it starts to believe the Rules (capital "R") don't apply anymore and that it can command its own reality. I think the process can be hastened along by opportunistic competitors looking to trip up their rivals. Examples: Opium trade in China 19th century (drugs, not sex), Yuri Bezmenov interview (can be found on YouTube).

It's the cultural equivalent of a Hollywood star achieving success, all the money, fame and women he could want, and then falling into a spiral of drugs and alcohol...maybe egged on by some frenemies in his professional and social circles.
 

Ableton

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Why would his motivation tank if his doctorate does not turn out to be valuable in dating (which is generally not the case, since doctorate gives some of the highest amount of social proof in the west)?


Realize what exactly?


Note that this was a temporary phemonenon during the early agricultural era. In hunter-gatherer societies, including modern ones, practically all males reproduce.


Is this not an unexpected sentiment considering how in above paragraph you were talking about height and doctorates, both of which are mostly cultural preferences?


I think that rather than anything being revealed, we are seeing a severe perversion of sexualities of men and women alike. I agree that such perversion is not compatible with cultural progress: it is an antithesis to any kind of progress, as are all forms of hedonism. Culture is born first out of accepting and then out of harnessing one's sexuality, not out of indulging in it to the point of perversion and debility.

because like I said, on some level men achieve to get sex/create offspring

realize that his doctorate doesn't help him get laid with women in their reproductive years in a sexually liberated, economically liberated society

thanks for the correction. But how did 5'4 guys in hunter gatherer societies reproduce? Are you saying women chose them to have offspring with? I think rape is a thing in absence of culture.

Height is not a cultural preference. How do you come up with this claim?

Good last point, but I will sadly stick to my own point that it's revealing human sexual nature. I think it's natural high t men want to impregnate almost every seemingly healthy prime woman ("want to impregnate" in the sense that they would do it if they are horny and have no social repercussions to fear from it, not as a "mission" or anything like that) and that prime women are only accepting offspring from men who display (as in looks and behaviour) high genetic value. I fail to see why we would be different from other animals in this regard. I hope you are right though.
 

R J

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You mean the 60s. And even before this chastity was pretty uncommon, it's why marrying at conception was so common. Kids have been dating since the 1920s at least, maybe even earlier.

Naturally. The lowest common denominator, the cheapest stuff, tends to be the unhealthiest--no conspiracy needed, just profit motive. There may be some conspiracy but even if there is, it is irrelevant. The propaganda only works because the citizenry consumes it.

It's the same as liberals accusing Russia of "sowing chaos". Even if the Russians are doing so, it's the Americans' fault for being so easily incitable.

Its like keeping a big tank of gasoline in your room, and blaming someone for the static electricity that makes your house explode.
Putting the blame on the herd is a cop-out when the supposed minder of the flock actively wants to see them defeated, in a sense. Personal responsibility doesn’t work on a mass scale because it rests on false notions of egalitarianism. Look at the boomers as a stunning example of what happens when hyper individuality is combined with financial successses.

And, PORN. The weapon which nearly destroyed entire generations
 
Last edited:

R J

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yeah man IDK I haven't really dipped into the antisemitic rabbit hole yet. some of it makes sense to me but it seems impossible to discover the truth.
as a german and having grandparents who experienced hitler and told me about society and war first hand, I can tell you that I am definitely not buying the argument that "hitler was a decent man". If there is some jewish conspiracy, it also does not mean that most jewish people are not decent people.
What I do find intriguing about hitler though is that eugenics are still playing out naturally in a sexually liberated society. If you are a white nordic chad with blue eyes it's impossible for you not to win at life, and that's pretty much a fact. Just like porn releases dopamine, seeing and interacting with attractive people releases dopamine in the human brain. Attractive people are like a drug as well. Brutal.

You opened up the red pill and tried mixing it with the blue capsule and it’s one of the worst things I’ve seen. The eternal kraut.
 

R J

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I think at a basal level it comes down to the fact that on some level, men achieve (culture) to get sex/create offspring. I see it in myself as well (not proud to admit this): If I masturbate a lot or have lots of sex in a short period of time, my thrive to accomplish anything is radically reduced. In long phases of not getting sexual intimacy and abstaining my motivation to progress in life increases. When you liberate sexual nature however, it is not achievement that will get you sex (mostly), it is your genetic value. Prime fertile women who are not depended on a provider will not sleep with a 5'4 skinny fat dude just because he is a doctor. When the short, skinny fat doctor starts to realize this, his motivation to achieve tanks. On the contrary, if societies structure guaranteed him to find a young woman who hasn't been with (many) men with higher genetical value (pair-bonding problem) for a monogamous relationship, he will work his ass off all life to pass on his genes, have a traditional family and so on.
Societies collapse when men realize this. This is basically the incel "bluepill vs. blackpill" narrative written out, and there is a lot of truth to it, whether people like to admit it or not. Sexual nature is almost completely detached from culture, and only cultural constraints will keep them together, which is necessary for a functioning society.
In hunter gatherer societies apparently 1 in 18 men or something along those lines reproduced. The result? War. State of nature.
It took implementing some form of spiritualism (aka culture) to get more men laid and have a functioning society: The believe that if a woman slept with more men, they would all pass on their best traits to the child (and the child would have multiple fathers). Now you actually have an incentive to get good traits.

How to solve? Reduce sexual liberation (Shariah law would be an example there). Obviously that is coming with problems (unhappy women for example)

Implementing new forms of spiritualism (not gonna happen)

Better copes for men who don't get sex: Sex robots instead of vr porn, onlyfans mirroring intimate relationships and so on.

I think we are currently heading towards the last option, as it seems to be the natural result of the social liberal late capitalist system.

Sexual liberation is just revealing the sexual nature of men and women and it's not compatible with cultural progress at all.


You’re projecting extremely fiercely in most of your assumptions. You seem to be focused a lot on status with women. Their opinions really don’t matter
 

Ableton

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You opened up the red pill and tried mixing it with the blue capsule and it’s one of the worst things I’ve seen. The eternal kraut.

elaborate pls. what part is red, what part is blue pilled? lol

eugenics = blackpilled

If anything, I'm blackpilled, not red or purple pilled

And I openly admitted that I have not educated myself on jews yet. I am not an antisemite as of now. If you have actual sources instead of wild claims like the provided video feel free to share them with us
 

TheSir

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because like I said, on some level men achieve to get sex/create offspring
Is your view that their career is the only thing men can work on in an attempt to improve their reproductive succeess?

thanks for the correction. But how did 5'4 guys in hunter gatherer societies reproduce? Are you saying women chose them to have offspring with?
Ha, what is this fixation with 5'4? Why wouldn't they reproduce? Anyway, you may be interested to learn that hunter gatherers were of similar height as people today. Agriculture resulted in a temporary dip in the average height, from which we are only now recovering:
heighthistory.png

Height is not a cultural preference. How do you come up with this claim?
In most societies height has hardly any influence at all regarding one's reproductive success, discounting the extreme ends. Short men breed and have sex all the time. If you are from the states, I understand your point of view. America has a peculiar cultural obsession with height.

prime women are only accepting offspring from men who display (as in looks and behaviour) high genetic value.
Consider the possibility that you might be over-emphasizing the influence of genetics when it comes to determining the desirable traits in the context of reproduction and pair-bonding. Biologically, reproduction takes place within a context that is charactericized by nature & nurture alike. That is to say, the individual's innate ability (potential to succeed within the environment) and demonstrated ability (proven success within the environment) determine the desirability of the individual somewhat equally. The lookism-oriented framework you are applying here has a disproportionate emphasis on the innate ability of the individual, to the point of being, if not exceedingly black-and-white in its modality, at least sufficiently biased to fail to accurately describe the reality.
 

Ableton

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You’re projecting extremely fiercely in most of your assumptions. You seem to be focused a lot on status with women. Their opinions really don’t matter
they do not have opinions on this, they have biological urges. Which is exactly why we should be considering their status in a society. That basically seems to be the point of the book as well
 

R J

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elaborate pls. what part is red, what part is blue pilled? lol

eugenics = blackpilled

If anything, I'm blackpilled, not red or purple pilled

And I openly admitted that I have not educated myself on jews yet. I am not an antisemite as of now. If you have actual sources instead of wild claims like the provided video feel free to share them with us

What did you grandparents say about living under Hitler?

The bluepilled part was the focus your post had on what women want. It really doesn’t matter, their preferences are shaped entirely by environment. Men too obviously but you think that desire for knowledge and career success is dependent on women’s approval somehow? It is of course but it shouldn’t be. I know men like you describe, really good looking Nordic types and they’re just as demoralized. You think scoring a super hot partner will fix this?

Most absolutely stunning women around here gross me out because they’ve been had multiple boyfriends before marriage

Having tons of sex is a cope. Unless you have the resources to keep a harem in a castle and raise all the children it’s pointless and empty
 

R J

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they do not have opinions on this, they have biological urges. Which is exactly why we should be considering their status in a society. That basically seems to be the point of the book as well

Then I agree with you and some form of white sharia in the west is necessary.
 

R J

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Is your view that their career is the only thing men can work on in an attempt to improve their reproductive succeess?


Ha, what is this fixation with 5'4? Why wouldn't they reproduce? Anyway, you may be interested to learn that hunter gatherers were of similar height as people today. Agriculture resulted in a temporary dip in the average height, from which we are only now recovering:
View attachment 19785


In most societies height has hardly any influence at all regarding one's reproductive success, discounting the extreme ends. Short men breed and have sex all the time. If you are from the states, I understand your point of view. America has a peculiar cultural obsession with height.


Consider the possibility that you might be over-emphasizing the influence of genetics when it comes to determining the desirable traits in the context of reproduction and pair-bonding. Biologically, reproduction takes place within a context that is charactericized by nature & nurture alike. That is to say, the individual's innate ability (potential to succeed within the environment) and demonstrated ability (proven success within the environment) determine the desirability of the individual somewhat equally. The lookism-oriented framework you are applying here has a disproportionate emphasis on the innate ability of the individual, to the point of being, if not exceedingly black-and-white in its modality, at least sufficiently biased to fail to accurately describe the reality.

Instead of taking the warrior’s path to combat the degenerative aspects , lookism ethos participates in it fully. It’s a losing battle
 
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