SonOfEurope

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And eat more, is your boyfriend/husband being supportive? The best therapy is company.
 

SonOfEurope

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I notice if I don't "energize" my brain and body well in the late hours of the day, such as my warm bath sauna in winter, a satisfying dinner and my 30 minutes staring at my red-light lamp while listening to music on my downloads on phone that's on airplane mode.... I do not stay asleep continuously throughout the whole night as it should be.

That guy is 100% right, energizing the brain is the only way to get it to rest proper. I think the same goes for any tissue.
 
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Jesilyn

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I'd go for benadryl... But nothing pharmaceutical would knock you out like 7.5 mg (a quarter tablet) of Mirtazapine...

In doses over 15mg Mirtazapine is somewhat stimulating but below 10mg it knocks people out like a good left hook.... It makes you really hungry and improves your appetite and insulin sensitivity if you cycle it well.

(I'm on it.)

Bump bump bump.
Any thoughts on dosage of Benadryl? Or the trazodone if I need something stronger until I get a better protocol going?
 
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Jesilyn

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And eat more, is your boyfriend/husband being supportive? The best therapy is company.
I can’t wait until I’m able to eat more! That’s one of the things that made me curious to try cyproheptadine. And yes, company is absolutely the best medicine, I’m calling that in too!
 
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Jesilyn

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I am also on 34mg progesterone daily, divided morning and evening.

Has helped me with the withdrawal from a bad medication I was on.

There is no substance as rejuvenating and sedating and anesthetic as Progesterone, read Peat's Articles on it.... Even after 2 years of 32/34 mg daily I occasionally take 150-180mg after lunch to relax...

I relax hard,

Wake up 6 hours afterwards not remembering a thing.

The strongest natural gaba angonist.


As a man I cannot take more than 35 or 40mg daily as its the natural female hormone (in higher dose) and I must balance it out with Pregnenolone and DHEA, but a woman can take as much as she likes during the luteal phase and taker down the next half of the cycle, in the massive quantities women are supposed to produce mid luteal phase it puts estrogen out into circulation, opposes androgens and regenerates the damages done by tissue estrogen in the female body.

I read you're 33... So your Estrogen is rising and it's balance with P4 is not what it used to be at 18 or 19.

This unbalance between Estrogen and Progesterone L, gradually favouring estrogen and the adrenal androgens is linear to ageing in all living beings , read "Progesterone Deceptions " by peat.

This problem you're having will soon be solved but you must be careful not to get trapped in the medical establishment's pharmaceutical traps and not let it leave lasting damage.

My advice is to get a bottle of Progest-e or progestene as soon as you can.

Keep us updated.
Looking forward to finding out more and trying it, I’ll let you know how it goes. Ready for some relief!
 

SonOfEurope

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Any thoughts on dosage of Benadryl? Or the trazodone if I need something stronger until I get a better protocol going?

Yes,

Benadryl maxes out at 75 to 80 mg for that purpose.

And Tradozone at 100mg in one sitting is best.

Take them 30 minutes before or after a carb-rich meal to maximize their effect.
 

SonOfEurope

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Without being able to speak directly to my doctor, but just short notes through her assistant, she suggested 5htp or to write me a prescription for ambien in my request for emergency sleep aide. I cannot yet talk to her about her reasoning for either of these options, but don’t feel comfortable trying either of those blindly, so I am trying to find out a bit more in the meantime.

I’m a bit confused about how 5htp works, or is supposed to work. I get the sense it may be not well understood or may do different things in different bodies? I gather some people have increased anxiety, so there is the potential for it to have a negative impact on whatever neurotransmitter dynamics are at play?

What about ambien? Can anyone help me understand how this is intended to affect the system and what the potential risks/downsides are?

In the past four nights I have actually had two nights where I slept through most of the night. But it is the middle of the night and the neurotransmitter phenomenon is worse than ever. The most wired I have felt, not sleepy at all, just wide awake and wired. I usually try to keep coaxing my system toward sleep, but that’s not working.

In a way it sort of feels good, there’s an aliveness in my belly that I wasn’t feeling before, is that an effect of serotonin? Is that why it’s mistaken as the happy hormone? It also feels less bloated and less inflamed, but maybe that’s thanks to aspirin, but I don’t think totally because I am only taking one tablet a day max right before bed or when I wake up in the night. In the evening, it’s like I’m kind of in a glow, I don’t feel so poorly, whereas until recently I was dragging and feeling really poorly. I fall asleep pretty early and easily, pretty much as soon as it gets dark, but then I’m wide awake an hour or less later. It doesn’t always happen, but it did tonight, that when I wake up after initially falling to sleep, I have an urgent bowel movement. This happened a few times when I was trying to make dairy work weeks back.

Yesterday with lunch I introduced a couple of tablespoons of unrefined cane sugar. For a few hours there was noticeable increased activity and movement in my gut. It didn’t feel negative, and there wasn’t an increase in negative symptoms, but I did have an appetite increase and want to drink orange juice pretty soon after. It was a very pronounced effect that I don’t know how to interpret but I think had to be connected to cane sugar. It felt at least partially pro-metabolic, but obviously there’s more at play. Could more sugar be simultaneously supporting metabolism and increasing endotoxin due to incomplete digestion/absorption?

I also had a small bite of cottage cheese with lunch, which I’ve done once or twice in the past few days, I think only on the days that led to really poor sleep, but I missed it in my notes so I’m not sure, but I know there were no immediate noticeable effects the other times. It’s just crazy that such small quantities of things could have such dramatic results! And it’s so hard to isolate variables.

Also I took an aspirin in water with bicarbonate when I woke up tonight and shortly after had a metallic taste at the back of my throat that tasted like blood, so I’m taking that as a sign I need to back off the aspirin, which I’ve only been doing 1 tablet a day.

Suggestions? Insights? Hints? Intuitions?

What can I do in the moment to mitigate damage? I know psychologically trying to sleep when I can’t adds stress, but anything I can do physically?

I’ve been sifting through threads in the forum looking for hints and trying to puzzle bits together. I saw the suggestion in several insomnia threads to sleep with the light on. I assume that is to reduce that stress of darkness, and I am curious to understand more about how that would work. I have followed the work of Jack Kruse and he is big on protecting darkness in the circadian cycle, so I am curious what the implications of being in light at night would be short term and long term.


Important question:

Those two nights that you almost made it through (or at least got a solid 3 hours straight I'm assuming) - Those days... What did you eat, what did you do... Which medications did you take - give us a replica of that day in your mind.
 
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Also I am relying on orange juice increasingly for nourishment. I have seen in a few places that people mix baking soda into acidic juices to cut the acidity. Why might the acidity be a problem, isn’t the stomach already very acidic?




"Vitamin D between 7500IU and 10000 IU, calculated

without sunshine, Thorne Research 2/day, high protein 1.6 to 2.2g per kg

Bodyweight, or up to 50%

on top of that, satfat to monofat 1:1, at the very least 2 full meals a day,

better 3 to 4, short training if weightlifting is conducted, low amounts of

sets, low intensity and duration cardio, like 20 to 30 minutes, exercising

not more often than 3 times a week, 2 to 4 daily soft boiled eggs or over

easy eggs, no scrambled, creatine as monohydrate 2 times per day each 2.5g,

omega 3 to 6 ratio of 1:1, or even slightly favoring ALA, no high sucrose

dieting or such, no space invader dieting but true meals from unprocessed

foodsources like meat, offal, fish, eggs, cheese, bones."


"One dose of a vitamin supplement will lead you nowhere, never. It is a

serious error in Peat's judgment that consuming imperfect supplements is

worse than nutrient deficiency, which consistently leads to tissue atrophy

and necrosis. That is why a lot of members do not get well, an now just ok

diet will not better serious deficiencies that come with western pattern

dieting, and are not easy to resolve, and almost impossible without

supplements. Peat underestimates requirements, and the low maximum uptake

per meal of most nutrients, and especially if the GI tract is offline, which

causes even further reduced absorption."
 
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Jesilyn

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87
Yes,

Benadryl maxes out at 75 to 80 mg for that purpose.

And Tradozone at 100mg in one sitting is best.

Take them 30 minutes before or after a carb-rich meal to maximize their effect.
I took half a tab of trazodone last night (25mg), woke up after an hour or less of sleep, took the other half, and was wide awake most of the night. I felt a little heavy/weak for a bit from taking it, but the neurotransmitter imbalance in my body is apparently extreme enough that it barely made a dent in it.

Is mirtazapine stronger or gentler than trazodone? I might be able to get my Medicaid doctor to call something else in today if I tell her it didn’t work. She wouldn’t call in cyproheptadine when I requested that because she said it would make the GI stuff worse. If you needed an emergency crutch for a week what would you request? Or should I try more of either the Benadryl or trazodone?
 
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Jesilyn

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Important question:

Those two nights that you almost made it through (or at least got a solid 3 hours straight I'm assuming) - Those days... What did you eat, what did you do... Which medications did you take - give us a replica of that day in your mind.
That’s was so frustrating! I cannot find any differences between the nights that I sleep better and the ones that I don’t. I’ve been studying my notes to try to figure it out and I really can’t tell. For several days it was alternating... maybe it’s just an exhaustion cycle and not dependent on any of the food/supplement/activity variables.
 

bk_

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Apr 6, 2018
Messages
356
I am also on 34mg progesterone daily, divided morning and evening.

Has helped me with the withdrawal from a bad medication I was on.

There is no substance as rejuvenating and sedating and anesthetic as Progesterone, read Peat's Articles on it.... Even after 2 years of 32/34 mg daily I occasionally take 150-180mg after lunch to relax...

I relax hard,

Wake up 6 hours afterwards not remembering a thing.

The strongest natural gaba angonist.


As a man I cannot take more than 35 or 40mg daily as its the natural female hormone (in higher dose) and I must balance it out with Pregnenolone and DHEA, but a woman can take as much as she likes during the luteal phase and taker down the next half of the cycle, in the massive quantities women are supposed to produce mid luteal phase it puts estrogen out into circulation, opposes androgens and regenerates the damages done by tissue estrogen in the female body.

I read you're 33... So your Estrogen is rising and it's balance with P4 is not what it used to be at 18 or 19.

This unbalance between Estrogen and Progesterone L, gradually favouring estrogen and the adrenal androgens is linear to ageing in all living beings , read "Progesterone Deceptions " by peat.

This problem you're having will soon be solved but you must be careful not to get trapped in the medical establishment's pharmaceutical traps and not let it leave lasting damage.

My advice is to get a bottle of Progest-e or progestene as soon as you can.

Keep us updated.

To confirm you take 34mg, not 3.4mg, daily?! Is this oral or topical? How much pregnenolone and DHEA do you take to balance it out?
 

SonOfEurope

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To confirm you take 34mg, not 3.4mg, daily?! Is this oral or topical? How much pregnenolone and DHEA do you take to balance it out?

Yes 34mg, 17 my morning with coffee (oral) and 17mg before bed after dinner (topical), it's a bit above the "maintenance" of 10-15mg a day a male natural produces and could benefit from taking... But it's making my withdrawal from benzos much faster.

I will, maybe next spring once I'm done with this, tune it down to just 17mg once daily before bed or oven 12-13mg.

It's taking over 100mg with a meal full of sugars and minerals that should knock you out, similar to the incredible blood levels women have at the peak of the menstrual cycle or when theyre pregnant.

Young Men's testicular production per night is roughly 6 to 7mg... It is released alongside the Testosterone and helps protect it from aromatization into Estrogen... One reason why aromatization increases in older men.... Less testicular P4 production and more reliance on the bad adrenal androgens.

The Pregnenolone is 300 mg every Saturday, and just 1mg DHEA a day... I tried up to 10mg DHEA once but got too much estrogen from it, haidut has mentioned how in lower doses, with Pregnenolone, it favours the androgenic pathway.
 
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SonOfEurope

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I took half a tab of trazodone last night (25mg), woke up after an hour or less of sleep, took the other half, and was wide awake most of the night. I felt a little heavy/weak for a bit from taking it, but the neurotransmitter imbalance in my body is apparently extreme enough that it barely made a dent in it.

Is mirtazapine stronger or gentler than trazodone? I might be able to get my Medicaid doctor to call something else in today if I tell her it didn’t work. She wouldn’t call in cyproheptadine when I requested that because she said it would make the GI stuff worse. If you needed an emergency crutch for a week what would you request? Or should I try more of either the Benadryl or trazodone?

Mirtazapine in the range of 3,75 to 7,5 mg is more sleep inducing than both. Its sleepy effect maxes out around 8-10mg and if you take more it's actually stimulating. Please, feel free to search the forum for it.

You cut up a 30mg tablet into 4, put one under your tongue (7,5mg) and let it dissolve and swallow... Do this 30 minutes after or preferential 20 minutes before a significant amount of carbs and it should knock you out.
 
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Jesilyn

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Jesilyn I’ve been in the same boat with 1 hour of sleep and the misery. I think insomnia can be triggered by different things but for me it was triggered by methylated B-vitamins with folate. I noticed eating leafy greens for dinner would make the insomnia more intense. This misery went on for over a year until I finally took niacinimide for over a week and it resolved the insomnia and somehow reset everything.

I first took 250mg but it induced tremendous hunger so I cut back to 50mg per meal as Ray Peat suggests. I also use progesterone in the morning every now and then and it induces sleep pressure at night (that sudden sleepy feeling and urge to want to go to sleep). I also found occassional use of thiamine HCL in the morning to help with sleep.

A word of caution of drastic dietary changes (been there done that): it can really throw your nutrition off-balance and drag you deeper into a rabbit hole. Use an app like chronometer to see if your coming up short in any kind of nutrition. Also don’t take huge amounts of raw sugar or sweets because it’ll just cause weight gain and deplete your nutrients (glycolysis metabolism requires many nutrients and co-factors). It’ll feel good at first but then you’ll start to lose the feeling and gain weight. Stick to whole foods.

Starches are hard to digest I know, I’ve found coffee helps with gut metabolism with harder to digest meals.

Taking a bit of raw organic honey first thing in the morning is sufficient for probiotics [Detection and identification of a novel lactic acid bacterial flora within the honey stomach of the honeybee Apis mellifera - PubMed]. Humans have been doing this for thousands of years and I hypothesize bee crops have the right probiotic for handling glucose/fructose and keeping a high metabolism. A bit of coconut oil between meals to kill off what’s in the upper intestines.
When is the best time of day to take niacinimide?
 
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Jesilyn

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Any time of day when you don't mind taking a nap, and after a carb-based meal.
So dinner time is appropriate? Wondering if I should try that tonight. I can’t get ahold of any other sleep meds until next week. A friend brought me RSO tincture last night and I still didn’t sleep. Does niacinimide help with sleep right away or is it more something that builds? And what about progesterone. Will that have to build before it starts helping with sleep or is it immediate?
 

SonOfEurope

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So dinner time is appropriate? Wondering if I should try that tonight. I can’t get ahold of any other sleep meds until next week. A friend brought me RSO tincture last night and I still didn’t sleep. Does niacinimide help with sleep right away or is it more something that builds? And what about progesterone. Will that have to build before it starts helping with sleep or is it immediate?

Your fist dose of progesterone should be large, in the range of 100 to 150mg to remove tissue estrogen and of course before bed, more food more minerals, later you'll tune the dose down to under 50mg.

Niacinamide helps in restoring glucose oxidation, should be more effective as time goes on- yes.

Bump.
 

Ableton

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did you try aspirin?
you might have some brain inflammation going on.

It puts me to sleep very effectively, and the sleep is very refreshing after the occasional aspirin.
 
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Jesilyn

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did you try aspirin?
you might have some brain inflammation going on.

It puts me to sleep very effectively, and the sleep is very refreshing after the occasional aspirin.
Yes I can definitely feel how it reduces inflammation although it hasn’t made me sleep. I’m taking a break because I think I may have gotten some stomach bleeding.
 
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I definitely determined that the MegaSpore increases the sleeplessness, at least at this point in my current state of deterioration... maybe it is triggering too much of immune response? Or maybe it it extra endotoxin due to die off? I took a day off and slept better, but now after 2 days of not taking it I still slept poorly. The feeling and symptoms definitely match what I've heard and read about the excess endotoxin and serotonin, so I am intrigued by what I've gathered about cyproheptadine from this forum, but also hesitant because it sounds like some people have negative or mixed responses to it. My system is so sensitive at this point, I'd likely be one of those... going to ask my naturopath about it next time I get a chance. Any other rescue interventions anyone can think of or had success with?

I came to this forum a few months ago with 3 main problems: sleeplessness at night, adrenal fatigue (or symptoms that resemble it) during the day, and hair shedding. My sleep has almost completely gotten better now. That said everybody is so different and coming from a different place, I'll just share what I think has worked for me/ what I've changed, and take what you think could apply to you if anything.

Here are what were the major problems causing my sleeplessness I think:
1) I wasn't eating enough calories every day. It's hard for me to eat a lot or even the recommended daily calorie allowance through food alone, so how I increased calories was by adding sugar in my coffee, drinking milk and OJ, adding in icecream bars (the fancy all natural kind from Sprouts) from time to time, and finally by pre-cooking meals so that I always have something to eat on hand. It's extremely easy for me to not eat out of laziness. If it means I have to get up and cook something when what I really want to do is finish what I'm doing, I can ignore hunger pangs for hours. Having "quick & easy" thing to eat: cheese+ apples, keifer, milk, oj, precooked meals helped with that.

2) Stress from my job (I'm self employed). I fired a client and a provider that were giving me major stress and that took away a lot of the low level stress I was constantly feeling.

3) I was doing HIIT exercise (which I love), but I think that combined with not enough calories was messing with my adrenals - leading to energy crashes during the day and sleeplessness at night. I stopped doing that about 2 months ago. Now however, I find that I sleep MUCH better if I have done exercise during the day. The ideal type of exercise for me (sleep wise) is a long bike ride. I'm also a big tennis player, and a nice active match / practice session helps with my sleep. If I can't do those, then a nice long walk outside. So I would say decreasing the HIIT / burst training I was doing helped, but including more "fun" cardio activities. (I hate cardio for cardio's sake personally so I would never recommend that).

4) I wasn't a big PUFA eater, and I'm still kinda skeptical that things like almonds and olive oil are bad for me, so I didn't really do much there. But what I did do was stop buying the "healthy" microwave dinners I loved, and forced myself, again, to precook my meals once a week. Once of the most nourishing meals I now make all the time is stew. You can add whatever you want in it and it's so healthy and nourishing. You can also include bones for bone broth, carrots for all their vitamins, celery, potatoes.. so many good things.

I'm still not at 100% all the time, but it's so much better now.

TLDR: Basically just increasing calories and healthy nourishing food, decreasing high intensity exercise, increasing fun exercise, and decreasing a major source of stress. I should also say that I believe in the power of thinking so I started adding the affirmations about my sleep and energy every day: "I sleep soundly at night. I'm full of mental and physical energy during the day".

That being said, I think we are often the ones who know the most. I already had a suspicion that I wasn't eating enough and that the exercise was causing stress. So I would ask you: What do you think it might be for you?

EDIT: I saw somebody else mention Niacinamide. That is something I also started taken during the day a few months ago after discovering it gives me an incredible burst of mental energy. I didn't mention it because i think of it as being my "alert" supplement, not a sleep supplement. Maybe it has been helping me with sleep too? I also started taking Glycine at night after watching some video shared here that that can help. My sleep had already been getting better at that point, but now that i think about it, I haven't had a bad night sleep in awhile. So maybe the glycine is doing something too?
 
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