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Severe Panic Attacks! Please Help

Discussion in 'iLoveSugar' started by iLoveSugar, Feb 14, 2015.

  1. Area-1255

    Area-1255 Member

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    Methylene blue might cause high blood pressure though, be careful.
     
  2. sugarbabe

    sugarbabe Member

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    I am not sure if MB is good for panic attacks, last I did some in a neti pot for suspected sinus infection I woke up 3 times with adrenaline, the first I was shaking. Make sure to get some sugar and salt when it happens.
     
  3. Dopamine

    Dopamine Member

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    My comment was a little bit premature. I am feeling much better now and I don't think I will be having panic attacks any more.

    I am done with eating a strict "Peat" diet because I was starving to death. The panic attacks, anxiety, depression, anhedonia, insomnia etc. is from an eating disorder. I am going to eat a Matt Stone style anti-diet now. No more restricting starch, fat, fiber. No more trying to pound loads of coffee in every day and eating way too much liquids. I know that Ray doesn't advocate any particular diet but the dietary advice on this forum propounded by many of his followers is for the most part completely unrealistic/bat ***t crazy and not generally conducive to a high metabolism. Last night I probaly ate 3000 calories within a several hour window before bed. I couldn't believe how hungry I was when I really just let myself eat whatever I wanted rather than restricting everything. I slept for 10 hours which is probaly the longest I have slept in months. I am also doing epsom salt baths now, getting more sun, and having chocolate rather than coffee. I will do a full write up of what i'm doing when I recover. The only thing I am going to avoid is large dietary sources of PUFA and excessive liquid. I feel really good now and am on the track to recovery.

    For those that are dealing with serious anxiety I would check first that your not just eating a restricted diet that limits your food intake.
     
  4. sugarbabe

    sugarbabe Member

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    @Dopamine glad to hear you are on the path to recovery. I agree that the emphasis on stimulants for people with eating disorders is disastrous. Do you think you overdid caffeine? That seems to be my trigger because it gives a feeling of well-being even if you were previously dead tired. I think using thyroid and coffee and tons of sugar is what ended me on a path to exhaustion.
     
  5. JackHanma

    JackHanma Member

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    Keep in mind that coffee is useful in correlation to sugar. If sugar levels plummet, then coffee can cause anxiety, slow metabolism. Since it increases the rate at which sugars are burned it is important to have the proper amount. This is why adding gelatin with sugar, salt and even some coconut oil is very useful to consume with coffee; it decreases the likelihood of crashing and a possible crash/anxiety attack.

    The liquids are useful if salt is increased. Too much liquid without enough salt, means increased prolactin. Since everyone's salt needs varies, one can easily have too little salt and thus experience innumerable negative effects from excessive liquids.
     
  6. Peata

    Peata Member

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    Glad you're feeling better. Sounds like you were under major stress from lack of calories, food restrictions, adrenaline, etc. How you're eating now is pretty much what I do. I don't go overboard on the liquids, eat what appeals (trying to avoid pufa), etc. Hope your recovery continues nicely for you.
     
  7. Blossom

    Blossom Moderator

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    That's what I do so you're not alone. I avoid gluten because of celiac but beyond that I eat basically whatever appeals to me. I'm glad you are feeling better today.
     
  8. tara

    tara Member

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    +1!
    Glad you are going to quit starving yourself. :)
    I think avoiding PUFA excess is probably smart. I wouldn't deliberately restrict fluids, just don't drink too much beyond thirst.
    Probably still good to keep an eye on making sure you cover micronutrient needs well - the odd serving of liver, some good fruit/juice, dairy, if it agrees with you, eggs, gelatin, maybe cooked greens and broth. As well as whatever else, not instead of.
    I gather extreme hunger is not uncommon when recovering from undereating.
    Good luck.
     
  9. sugarbabe

    sugarbabe Member

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    How many calories were you eating @Dopamine ?
     
  10. MCF

    MCF Member

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    Area-1255 thank you for the warning regarding methylene blue and blood pressure. Mine jumped 30 points as of late, from being always normal. I use 1 mg daily, so out of caution I will stop for a while.
     
  11. Dopamine

    Dopamine Member

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    I definitely overdid caffeine on some days and it has been a trigger for anxiety attacks. Even when I completely cut out caffeine though I still had bad insomnia, anxiety, and a lot of issues so it wasn't the only problem but it wasn't helping. The fluid content of a cup of coffee, coke, energy drink or whatever doesn't help things either especially in the morning when your metabolism is already low. I have been eating dark chocolate and it is amazing for metabolism. It has polyphenols like coffee that block iron absorption and it has some caffeine and magnesium so it'll be a good replacement for now. High caloric density relative to fluid content is key for increasing metabolism.

    Good point and I agree. I have always taken coffee with sugar, milk, etc... and it helps but I can still only handle it when my metabolism is really good. I think espresso with creme and sugar would be better due to lower liquid and higher caloric density. I am going to buy chocolate covered coffee beans I think. Coffee and caffeine is definitely great in a certain context.

    I have tried salting liquids and I find it not only really gross and unappetizing but it doesn't increase my fluid tolerance very well. I think the main problem with Peats "healthy food" recommendations is that they are mostly all fluids. Great for someone who already has a high metabolism maybe but for someone who has a low metabolism I can't imagine you could heal on a milk and fruit based diet regardless of how much you salt everything. Of course environment also needs to be taken into context as the amount of sunlight and exercise you get is a big influence on perspiration rate and need to replenish fluids. Peats mostly liquid diet works well for him partly because he spends lots of time under the Mexican sun. Much harder for someone who lives in Canadian climate. I have also questioned Ray Peats and Danny Roddys' need to supplement thyroid hormone. You would think that if their diet was perfectly metabolically stimulating that they wouldn't need to take exogenous hormones to bring up metabolism but maybe i'm missing something... For what its worth Peat seems much more focused on theory than practice so I don't think he is necessarily a perfect role model for what to eat and do... nor does he seem to want to be.

    I tried switching milk out for cheese but eating 1000+ calories of cheese everyday is not fun or realistic. Fruit carbs have no real substitute besides starch but moving towards a diet higher in starch is at the fringe of what could really be considered a "Peat Diet" and Peat has very specific starch recommendations. There are only so many ways to make masa harina and potatoes taste good before you want to blow your brains out or eat some spaghetti and garlic bread. I think people also forget about the importance of eating food/meals that taste good as this is very important for stimulating digestion and raising appetite cues/dopamine.
     
  12. Dopamine

    Dopamine Member

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    Thanks :happy:

    Thanks tara :happy: and yes I think the big idea is to listen to your body- if your thirsty drink/eat fruit but if your not thirsty then lots of fluids is not a good idea. Micronutrients are certainly important- I think anyone who eats mostly whole foods and hits caloric requirements should get enough micronutrients. I'm eating liver, carrot salad, fruit, meat, potatoes, rice, pasta, chocolate, gelatin, dairy etc as the basis of my diet so lots of good nutrition. I'm still going to follow Peat principles but with a much more wide, intuitive, and open minded interpretation then I had before. My diet was rigid and reductionist- not something Peat would approve of anyway. Matt Stones interpretation of Peat and metabolism is great in my opinion. Very helpful and he is a funny, realistic, easy to understand guy.

    It varied but probaly around 2000 most days. I'm guessing I need closer to 4000. I'm 19, 165lbs, 5'11, mostly sedentary. Relevant quotes from Minnesota starvation experiment:

    "Enough food must be supplied to allow tissues destroyed during starvation to be rebuilt … our experiments have shown that in an adult man no appreciable rehabilitation can take place on a diet of 2000 calories [actually 2000 kcal (8368 kJ)] a day. The proper level is more like 4000 [4000 kcal (16,736 kJ)] daily for some months. The character of the rehabilitation diet is important also, but unless calories are abundant, then extra proteins, vitamins and minerals are of little value (20)."

    "Initially the lowest energy group received 2200 kcal (9205 kJ), only about 400 kcal (1674 kJ) more than in semistarvation, but Keys eventually increased this number when the men were not showing marked signs of improvement. The men reported that reduced dizziness, apathy, and lethargy were the first signs of recovery, but that feelings of tiredness, loss of sex drive, and weakness were slow to improve (3). Robert McCullagh noted that he could tell he was beginning to recover when his sense of humor finally returned."
     
  13. Dopamine

    Dopamine Member

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    So the insomnia and panic came back even though I was trying to eat as much as possible Matt Stone style. also gained some fat/bloat rapidly... i'm better again though.

    I think whats really helping me most is getting lots of sunlight. The more sunlight I get the more my metabolism increases. Feels like thyroid. Twice now i've gotten intense relief from insomnia and slept 10 hours. One of the common themes was I laid in the sun all day and ate a lot. When I get more sun i crave more liquid foods like fruit/OJ and milk and my appetite is higher and I tend to eat more.

    Just some observations of the last few days.
     
  14. Blossom

    Blossom Moderator

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    I was wondering how things were going. Sunshine seems to make everything better.
     
  15. sugarbabe

    sugarbabe Member

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    Sunshine dramatically helps my sleep as well. And I don't even need that much exposure to benefit. So you don't get panic attacks during the day time?? Maybe your vitamin D is low causing sleep apnea? I wake up in a panic sometimes and I think taping my mouth shut helps that, but sun exposure is the real deal.
     
  16. Dopamine

    Dopamine Member

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    I might have low vitamin D. I should probaly go to a doctor I suppose... I think it's more likely the red light from the sun which is really helping because it has an almost immediate effect. A deficiency of red light can mimic hypothyroidism in some ways.

    I feel fine during the day for the most part though usually depressed. My anxiety seems to peak around 10pm which sucks because that's when i'd like to go to sleep. I think serotonin rises at night so maybe it is the nightly rise in serotonin triggering panic.

    I'm going to try this:

    Glycine- .25tsp (1.25g)/.25tsp (1.25g)/.25tsp (1.25g)
    Theanine- 225mg/225mg/225mg
    Niacinamide- 500mg/500mg/500mg

    all 3 should lower serotonin, cortisol, and adrenaline so it should help. Also studies show ~3g glycine before bed improves sleep and speeds onset of deep sleep but I think lower doses will work just as well. I'll report back.

    then I might try niacinamide 2-4g single dose before bed.

    I took 1.25g glycine half hour ago and already feel way more calm and stable though it may be placebo. Also yawning a lot. Seems promising. Niacinamide has given me intense anxiety relief in the past to the point where I felt like I had been tranquilized and felt totally blissful and calm. Not easily reproducible however and I can't remember the dosage but i'll experiment.
     
  17. sugarbabe

    sugarbabe Member

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    I have experimented with niacinamide as well, although it didn't help my anxiety triggered by low blood sugar since it can also lower blood sugar. I wish there was a supp that was magic for this type of stuff. I read a case study of a guy who had severe anxiety disorder where nothing really worked until he tried high dose niacinamide. I wish that could be the case for me! I get afraid to take much when I can be prone to panicking when my blood sugar drops.
     
  18. Dopamine

    Dopamine Member

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    How much did you take? I think 100mg is enough to get many of the benefits and minimize side effects.
     
  19. sugarbabe

    sugarbabe Member

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    Yes I mostly use small doses besides the time I tried about 1500mg during the course of a day to see if my issues were related to fungal overgrowth. Apparently it can clear out fungus. But I did it on a day I didn't have anxiety. Seems I react to everything if I already have bad symptoms. My main issue is post meal tachycardia and nervousness also waking up with with adrenaline.
     
  20. Dopamine

    Dopamine Member

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    Maybe it is a particular food/supplement you are reacting too causing stress. Milk maybe? I had to switch to lactose free milk and it has made a big difference. Also balancing protein with carbohydrate is important for blood sugar (though you probaly know this already). Theanine and glycine/gelatin are maybe worth trying for stress/sleep too if you haven't already.

    Also if your taking thyroid hormone maybe your dose is too high.
     
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