Severe Panic Attacks! Please Help

[DaveFoster]

I have a bottle sitting in front of me with orange juice.

Inside the bottle I have the following:

- 30 grams taurine
- 30 grams glycine
- 1 gram lysine

I may add in beta-alanine as well.

Will I die from this? I'm trying to lower blood pressure and heart rate.

Unfortunately, I have no way of monitoring blood pressure.

My heart rate is 110 resting.

 

[Blossom]

What is your blood pressure Dave?

 

[Drareg]

I have a bottle sitting in front of me with orange juice.

Inside the bottle I have the following:

- 30 grams taurine
- 30 grams glycine
- 1 gram lysine

I may add in beta-alanine as well.

Will I die from this? I'm trying to lower blood pressure.

I doubt you need 30g of taurine.
Niacinamide is great for lowering blood pressure in my experience.
Take an aspirin just in case.
I would do 1g lysine,1g niacinamide, 500mg aspirin.

 

[DaveFoster]

What is your blood pressure Dave?

After taking Klonopin, it's around 140/100. That's after taking an anti-hypertensive. Resting heart rate jumps to 140 when I don't dose consistently.

I doubt you need 30g of taurine.
Niacinamide is great for lowering blood pressure in my experience.
Take an aspirin just in case.
I would do 1g lysine,1g niacinamide, 500mg aspirin.

6 grams niacinamide per day; 2 grams aspirin; 1 gram lysine. Check.


6:30 STARTING TIME

T+5 - Heart rate now at 101.

T+10 - Consumed 1/3 of the aforementioned solution. Immediate need to go to the bathroom.

T+15 - Heart rate at 104 even after returning from a walk to the bathroom.
Consumed half of the total solution.

T+20 - Heart rate at 78.

T+25 - Felt very dizzy from low blood-pressure; made myself throw up. Experiment aborted.

Trying this again with 10 grams of taurine and glycine. I actually might wait until I have a blood pressure monitor.

Wow, resting heart rate dropped to 95.

 

[Drareg]

After taking Klonopin, it's around 140/100. That's after taking an anti-hypertensive. Resting heart rate jumps to 140 when I don't dose consistently.

6 grams niacinamide per day; 2 grams aspirin; 1 gram lysine. Check.


6:30 STARTING TIME

T+5 - Heart rate now at 101.

T+10 - Consumed 1/3 of the aforementioned solution. Immediate need to go to the bathroom.

T+15 - Heart rate at 104 even after returning from a walk to the bathroom.
Consumed half of the total solution.

T+20 - Heart rate at 78.

T+25 - Felt very dizzy from low blood-pressure; made myself throw up. Experiment aborted.

Trying this again with 10 grams of taurine and glycine. I actually might wait until I have a blood pressure monitor.

6 g of niacinamide and 2 g of aspirin is full on. I was thinking much less.
Your liver might need a break Dave.

 

[DaveFoster]

6 g of niacinamide and 2 g of aspirin is full on. I was thinking much less.
Your liver might need a break Dave.

Just got a liver panel; doc said liver's doing great, and that's after letrozole, notorious for negative liver effects.

 

[tara]

Will I die from this?

You planning to have a sip of it every now and then over a week?
I think taking ~1 g of taurine at a dose might be more suitable?

 

[DaveFoster]

You planning to have a sip of it every now and then over a week?
I think taking ~1 g of taurine at a dose might be more suitable?

Well, I just drank half and threw up. So maybe over the course of the day.

I can't understate how bad my current hypertension is. It's the kind of state that triggers an emergency situation if you checked in.

Glycine has a half-life of 0.5-4 hours, while taurine has a half life of 0.1 hours, so I'd emphasize higher doses of glycine due to more stable effects on blood pressure.

 

[haidut]

Well, I just drank half and threw up. So maybe over the course of the day.

I can't understate how bad my current hypertension is. It's the kind of state that triggers an emergency situation if you checked in.

Glycine has a half-life of 0.5-4 hours, while taurine has a half life of 0.1 hours, so I'd emphasize higher doses of glycine due to more stable effects on blood pressure.

Actually, the half-life of taurine is longer. The 0.1h number is what Google spits out but I don't think the source is legit. Given that taurine takes 1-2 hours to reach peak concentrations, the HL can't be just 0.1h. It's more like that of glycine - i.e. on the order of 1-4 hours.
http://www.hindawi.com/journals/jaa/2010/346237/
Taurine Intestinal Absorption and Renal Excretion Test in Diabetic Patients

And btw, it's tissue HL that matters anyways. One reference says that whole-body half life is 18+ days! I am assuming they mean tissue levels, which is what you want anyways.
http://commons.colgate.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1082&context=car
"...Taurine has a longer full body half-life at 18.6 days (Huxtable, 2000). If a longer duration was chosen, then caffeine would be mostly metabolized, thus the results would not display an accurate portrayal of caffeine’s effects."
Expanding the Circle 1975–1999: Sulfur Biochemistry and Insights on the Biological Functions of Taurins - Springer

 

[DaveFoster]

Actually, the half-life of taurine is longer. The 0.1h number is what Google spits out but I don't think the source is legit. Given that taurine takes 1-2 hours to reach peak concentrations, the HL can't be just 0.1h. It's more like that of glycine - i.e. on the order of 1-4 hours.
http://www.hindawi.com/journals/jaa/2010/346237/
Taurine Intestinal Absorption and Renal Excretion Test in Diabetic Patients

And btw, it's tissue HL that matters anyways. One reference says that whole-body half life is 18+ days! I am assuming they mean tissue levels, which is what you want anyways.
http://commons.colgate.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1082&context=car
"...Taurine has a longer full body half-life at 18.6 days (Huxtable, 2000). If a longer duration was chosen, then caffeine would be mostly metabolized, thus the results would not display an accurate portrayal of caffeine’s effects."
Expanding the Circle 1975–1999: Sulfur Biochemistry and Insights on the Biological Functions of Taurins - Springer

That's unbelievably helpful haidut. Time to start consuming kilo's of taurine! YEAH!

What's the toxicity on this anyway?

 

[haidut]

That's unbelievably helpful haidut. Time to start consuming kilo's of taurine! YEAH!

What's the toxicity on this anyway?

Did you Google it?
Taurine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[DaveFoster]

Did you Google it?
Taurine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Google? Oh, you must mean haidut 2.o

1 g/kg. 80 grams. Alrighty then. I'll need a funnel.

It's odd how both glycine and taurine have comparable upper dosages.

 

[tomisonbottom]

I really appreciate that, Rob. The doctor just told me to take this as a lesson to "stop experimenting."

For anyone struggling with clonidine withdrawal, heavy amounts of sodium, 100 mg pregnenolone + 100 mg l-theanine dissolved sublingually repeated as needed does wonders. I added in 100 mg progesterone to speed up the process.

What does dissolving something under the tongue do, versus just taking something in capsules and swallowing them?

 

[DaveFoster]

What does dissolving something under the tongue do, versus just taking something in capsules and swallowing them?

They tend to take effect faster. Many supplements are vomit-inducing, such as lysine and niacinamide, so you need to take them as capsules.

If you've eaten a protein prior to taking an amino acid, then it will compete for absorption with other aminos.

Powders are significantly cheaper than capsules.

UPDATE: Woke up, did not have a panic attack. Took all my supplements but no Klonopin, went to the store, got back, and checked my heart rate after calming down.

It's around 100, and I have very mild chest pain but it's subsiding.

 

[tara]

Many supplements are vomit-inducing, such as lysine and niacinamide, so you need to take them as capsules.

Many chemicals are rough on the guts if the concentration is too high. Nausea is sometimes there for good reason - to protect the body from too much of whatever. I don't think putting them in a capsule necessarily avoids this problem - when the capsule dissolves it can leave a high concentration in one spot. Another alternative would be to use smaller doses or mixed with something else might.

 

[postman]

Tianeptine pretty much cured my panic attacks.

 

[DaveFoster]

@tara I agree, especially with isolated aminos.

UPDATE: It's been about 10 days since I stopped taking raloxifene, letrozole, clonidine, cyproheptadine, naltrexone, and caffeine. Everything's coming back to homeostasis, and I'm about at 80%. Angina is so mild it's not very noticeable, and it's going away.

2 weeks is a good time frame for things to stabilize due to the half life of most drugs commonly used drugs being between 6-22 hours.

 

[InChristAlone]

Wow, I'm glad you survived! Your experience goes to show how we should be careful with these drugs. Especially ones that cause withdrawal. High adrenaline is hellish, what was the original reason for taking clonidine?

 

[DaveFoster]

Wow, I'm glad you survived! Your experience goes to show how we should be careful with these drugs. Especially ones that cause withdrawal. High adrenaline is hellish, what was the original reason for taking clonidine?

I originally got clonidine to attenuate the post-exercise rise in cortisol after my time in the gym.

Just recently, I crashed my E2 and tried to control the hot flashes with it, and it worked, but I used too much and dehydrated myself.

 

[Dopamine]

I am having similar issues.

I have started getting panic attacks/anxiety almost every night keeping me up. Yesterday I got no sleep and was up all night trying to control my breathing and keep myself warm because of the panic attacks. I thought I was going to throw up... butterflies in the stomach, feeling faint like i'm going to pass out or die. The night before I had similar problems though not as severe and I was able to get some sleep around 2AM. If I can't get sleep tonight I will be wrecked.

I have very little appetite. Can't relax. I wouldn't wish this on anyone.

I think the cause may be an ear infection. Whether bacterial or viral i'm not sure. I feel some dizziness/vertigo. Head feels very unbalanced on my neck. Also my ear was very itchy prior to my having experienced this. It always itched most before bed which is when my panic attacks have been hitting me hard.

I will report if I have any success. Just took .2mg methylene blue to try and bring down the infection if that is indeed the source of my issues. I am taking no other supplements as i'm scared of making things worse.