Severe Copper Deficiency By Daily Oyster Consumption (PubMed Case-Study)

[youngsinatra]

„We report a 39-year-old woman with slowly progressive spastic gait and paresthesia in the lower extremities. Cervical spinal MRI revealed high intensity in the dorsal column from vertebrae C2 to C7. Laboratory findings showed normal vitamin B12 and low serum copper level. By lifestyle history taking, we noticed her extreme unbalanced diet of having 15-20 oysters everyday over 5 years. Then we considered that zinc excess caused copper deficiency myelopathy. We needed to pay attention to copper and zinc level if the patient has a symptom resembling subacute combined degeneration of spinal cord with normal serum vitamin B12.“

[Copper deficiency myelopathy probably caused by long-lasting daily excessive intake of zink] - PubMed

We report a 39-year-old woman with slowly progressive spastic gait and paresthesia in the lower extremities. Cervical spinal MRI revealed high intensity in the dorsal column from vertebrae C2 to C7. Laboratory findings showed normal vitamin B12 and low serum copper level. By lifestyle history...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I think oysters can be a great source of zinc, but they are probably not great for improving copper status. Organ meats are probably the only consistent source of copper.

 

[Vinero]

What type of organ meats are good sources of copper?
Liver is ofcourse high in copper, but is too high in vitamin A and iron.
I think mushrooms and shellfish are very good foods to get copper.
Cocoa/dark chocolate is very good, but only in small amounts because it's high in oxalates.

But even if you eat relatively low copper foods like white rice and muscle meats you will still get around 1-2 mg a day if you eat enough of it.

Another factor that comes into play is copper absorption.
I think you need good stomach acid production to absorb copper.
Using too many antacids or minerals like calcium and magnesium decreases stomach acid levels, leading to nutrient deficiences like copper, iron, b12.
Including muscle meat in a meal helps to increase stomach acid levels.
So combining a meal which has muscle meat together with a high copper food like mushrooms or cocoa would probably yield the highest copper absorption.
Meat and potatoes would be a good choice, since the meat helps increase stomach acid and the potatoes are high in copper.

 

[youngsinatra]

What type of organ meats are good sources of copper?
Liver is ofcourse high in copper, but is too high in vitamin A and iron.
I think mushrooms and shellfish are very good foods to get copper.
Cocoa/dark chocolate is very good, but only in small amounts because it's high in oxalates.

But even if you eat relatively low copper foods like white rice and muscle meats you will still get around 1-2 mg a day if you eat enough of it.

Another factor that comes into play is copper absorption.
I think you need good stomach acid production to absorb copper.
Using too many antacids or minerals like calcium and magnesium decreases stomach acid levels, leading to nutrient deficiences like copper, iron, b12.
Including muscle meat in a meal helps to increase stomach acid levels.
So combining a meal which has muscle meat together with a high copper food like mushrooms or cocoa would probably yield the highest copper absorption.
Meat and potatoes would be a good choice, since the meat helps increase stomach acid and the potatoes are high in copper.

Beef liver is way too high in vitamin A in my opinion aswell, but I think historically it was probably okay when eaten once a week or so.
Sweetbread cuts of meat contain a lot of copper too.

Squid is another good candidate, but I think seafood is best to be completely avoided nowadays due to pollution and the thought of eating it feels off to me.

Mushrooms contain a good amount of copper on paper, but with today‘s agricultural methods I don‘t know how much copper is really in it (and in plant foods in general) these days. Some sources say that copper is the number #1 deficient mineral in agriculture. (the highest reduction I have read was -90%)

Chocolate and nuts are okay sources, but I think these are more like snack foods, and best to be eaten in such quantities of snacks, as they contains significant amounts of oxalates.

 

[BlahtyBlah]

Beef liver is way too high in vitamin A in my opinion aswell, but I think historically it was probably okay when eaten once a week or so.
Sweetbread cuts of meat contain a lot of copper too.

Squid is another good candidate, but I think seafood is best to be completely avoided nowadays due to pollution and the thought of eating it feels off to me.

Mushrooms contain a good amount of copper on paper, but with today‘s agricultural methods I don‘t know how much copper is really in it (and in plant foods in general) these days. Some sources say that copper is the number #1 deficient mineral in agriculture. (the highest reduction I have read was -90%)

Chocolate and nuts are okay sources, but I think these are more like snack foods, and best to be eaten in such quantities of snacks, as they contains significant amounts of oxalates.

Beef liver is fine. One can eat a very small amount of beef liver daily without going too high Vitamin A. I need to get around 10,000 of Vitamin per day. About 32 grams of beef liver will give me that, and that amount will give me about 4.6 grams of copper, which is pretty good for me. If one only need 5000 IU of vitamin A per day, they can half that and they'll get about half that amount of copper, which is still a good amount. So most people cant get safe amounts of Vitamin A without overdoing it and still get plenty of copper with liver. One can eat that amount daily, or combined once per week,.. whichever works. Oxalates in chocolate doesn't cause issues for most people, especially if they have enough calcium in their diet which counters that. I have consumed a ton of chocolate daily for years and never had issues.

 

[youngsinatra]

Beef liver is fine. One can eat a very small amount of beef liver daily without going too high Vitamin A. I need to get around 10,000 of Vitamin per day. About 32 grams of beef liver will give me that, and that amount will give me about 4.6 grams of copper, which is pretty good for me. If one only need 5000 IU of vitamin A per day, they can half that and they'll get about half that amount of copper, which is still a good amount. So most people cant get safe amounts of Vitamin A without overdoing it and still get plenty of copper with liver. One can eat that amount daily, or combined once per week,.. whichever works. Oxalates in chocolate doesn't cause issues for most people, especially if they have enough calcium in their diet which counters that. I have consumed a ton of chocolate daily for years and never had issues.

Yeah, sadly due to my past vitamin A supplementation, I cannot tolerate any vitamin A anymore and I plan on doing a low vitamin A diet for 2 years at a minimum to decrease my high serum and hepatic retinol.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

„We report a 39-year-old woman with slowly progressive spastic gait and paresthesia in the lower extremities. Cervical spinal MRI revealed high intensity in the dorsal column from vertebrae C2 to C7. Laboratory findings showed normal vitamin B12 and low serum copper level. By lifestyle history taking, we noticed her extreme unbalanced diet of having 15-20 oysters everyday over 5 years. Then we considered that zinc excess caused copper deficiency myelopathy. We needed to pay attention to copper and zinc level if the patient has a symptom resembling subacute combined degeneration of spinal cord with normal serum vitamin B12.“

[Copper deficiency myelopathy probably caused by long-lasting daily excessive intake of zink] - PubMed

We report a 39-year-old woman with slowly progressive spastic gait and paresthesia in the lower extremities. Cervical spinal MRI revealed high intensity in the dorsal column from vertebrae C2 to C7. Laboratory findings showed normal vitamin B12 and low serum copper level. By lifestyle history...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I think oysters can be a great source of zinc, but they are probably not great for improving copper status. Organ meats are probably the only consistent source of copper.

That is probably why Ray Peat suggests having oysters only once a week, and says only 3 or 4 should be enough.

 

[aniciete]

That is probably why Ray Peat suggests having oysters only once a week, and says only 3 or 4 should be enough.

What do 3-4 oysters give you that you can’t get from other food?

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

What do 3-4 oysters give you that you can’t get from other food?

I think oysters just get the job done with very few of them. Just one oyster is like a powerful vitamin, so I can see too many being too much.

"Nutrition Info of Oysters (per medium 25g)

Calories- 41
Total Fat- 1.2g
Total Carbohydrates- 2.5g
Protein -4.7g
Potassium- 76mg 2% RDI
Vitamin A- 2.4% RDI
Vitamin C- 5.3% RDI
Cholesterol – 25mg 8% RDI
Calcium- 0.4% RDI
Iron- 13% RDI
Sodium- 53% RDI
Zinc- 6.5mg 45% RDI"

 

[youngsinatra]

I think oysters are just a good source of zinc and selenium, but red meat/beef is a better and cleaner source, loaded with B-vitamins, selenium, potassium and iron.

Oysters are very pricey.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

I think oysters are just a good source of zinc and selenium, but red meat/beef is a better and cleaner source, loaded with B-vitamins, selenium, potassium and iron.

Oysters are very pricey.

There are so many reasons RP says red meat is inferior to shellfish that I don't even know where to begin....

"Muscle protein is very rich in tryptophan and cysteine, and these amino acids suppress the thyroid gland’s function, and are potentially toxic to nerves, especially in the presence of cortisol and hypoglycemia. Tryptophan is turned into serotonin, which promotes lipid peroxidation, blood clotting, and certain patterns of nerve activity. Serotonin can suppress mitochondrial respiration, and along with the reduced body temperature that it produces, a pattern of torpor or helplessness tends to be produced.” -Ray Peat

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

I think oysters are just a good source of zinc and selenium, but red meat/beef is a better and cleaner source, loaded with B-vitamins, selenium, potassium and iron.

Oysters are very pricey.

"When rats were fed a diet completely lacking tryptophan for a short period, or a diet containing only one fourth of the “normal” amount for a more prolonged period, the results were surprising: They kept the ability to reproduce up to the age of 36 months (versus 17 months for the rats on the usual diet), and both their average longevity and their maximum longevity increased significantly. They looked and acted like younger rats. (A methionine-poor diet also has dramatic longevity-increasing effects.)" -Ray Peat

"On the tryptophan-poor diet, the amount of serotonin in the brain decreased. When brain serotonin decreases, the level of testosterone in male animals increases." -Ray Peat

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

I think oysters are just a good source of zinc and selenium, but red meat/beef is a better and cleaner source, loaded with B-vitamins, selenium, potassium and iron.

Oysters are very pricey.

"Decreasing tryptophan or decreasing serotonin improves learning and alertness, while increased serotonin impairs learning." -Ray Peat

"Although several amino acids can be acutely or chronically toxic, even lethal, when too much is eaten, tryptophan is the only amino acid that is also carcinogenic. (It can also produce a variety of toxic metabolites, and it is very susceptible to damage by radiation.) Since tryptophan is the precursor of serotonin, the amount of tryptophan in the diet can have important effects on the way the organism responds to stress, and the way it develops, adapts, and ages." -Ray Peat

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

I think oysters are just a good source of zinc and selenium, but red meat/beef is a better and cleaner source, loaded with B-vitamins, selenium, potassium and iron.

Oysters are very pricey.

"50% of the animal is glycine and collagen. ancient cultures ate the whole animal and prized the organs and skin, and gave most of the muscle meat to the dogs." -Ray Peat

I could keep posting more.......

YOU ARE WHAT YOU EAT

"In 1957 James McConnell discovered that when flatworms were fed other flatworms that had been trained, their performance was improved by 50%, compared with normal flatworms. Later, similar experiments were done with rats and fish, showing that tissue extracts from trained animals modified the...

raypeatforum.com

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

I think oysters are just a good source of zinc and selenium, but red meat/beef is a better and cleaner source, loaded with B-vitamins, selenium, potassium and iron.

Oysters are very pricey.

Remember Ray Peat suggest blocking iron?

"Iron destroys vitamin E, so vitamin E should be taken as a supplement. It shouldn't be taken at the same time as the iron-contaminated food, because iron reacts with it in the stomach. About 100 mg. per day is adequate, though our requirement increases with age, as our tissue iron stores increase. Coffee, when taken with food, strongly inhibits the absorption of iron, so I always try to drink coffee with meat. Decreasing your consumption of unsaturated fats makes the iron less harmful. Vitamin C stimulates the absorption of iron, so it might be a good idea to avoid drinking orange juice at the same meal with iron-rich foods. A deficiency of copper causes our tissues to retain an excess of iron, so foods such as shrimp and oysters which contain abundant copper should be used regularly." -Ray Peat

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

"The copper in oysters is protective against iron excess." -Ray Peat

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Here is my e-mail to RP this morning about oysters....

ME:
I know you recommend shellfish once a week, maybe more now, are oysters recommended more than once a week, and how many would be healthy until they become too much?

RAY PEAT
"More than one serving of oyster per week might provide too much iron."

ME:
Ok! How many regular sized oysters would you consider one serving?

RAY PEAT:
"I think two or three are enough."

 

[tallglass13]

Thanks for posting all those Rinse!
Re-reading Ray's work is always helpful and we have to relearn frequently..

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Thanks for posting all those Rinse!
Re-reading Ray's work is always helpful and we have to relearn frequently..

Glad to be of help!

 

[Cloudhands]

if one needed copper but wanted to avoid retinol they could use desiccated beef liver that was defatted. Personally ive grown so sick of the taste of beef liver i no longer eat it, instead i use a desiccated powder equivalent of .75oz of beef liver daily and i take the oyster extract equivalent of 1 oyster a day. I wonder if some people genetically become retinol toxic more easily then others, and i also wonder if those individuals would fair better with beta carotene.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

if one needed copper but wanted to avoid retinol they could use desiccated beef liver that was defatted. Personally ive grown so sick of the taste of beef liver i no longer eat it, instead i use a desiccated powder equivalent of .75oz of beef liver daily and i take the oyster extract equivalent of 1 oyster a day. I wonder if some people genetically become retinol toxic more easily then others, and i also wonder if those individuals would fair better with beta carotene.

Ray Peat talks about liver suppliments in this interview clip...


View: https://youtu.be/lVzSIw5S4Nk