Serrapeptase Experiment

OP
ecstatichamster
Joined
Nov 21, 2015
Messages
10,501
the argument for non-serrapeptase enzymes is they are safer than serrapeptase.

bromelain and papain (from pineapples or papaya, respectively) attack proteins with cysteine and have been used for centuries or eaten.

(The other proteolytic enzymes attack proteins with serine.)

These, and nattokinase, are fine passing through the stomach and can handle the acidity. Another is seaprose, from comes from Aspergillus melleus, a mold.

These all can handle stomach acid just fine.

The one that can't is serrapeptase.

I have no problems with the other proteolytic enzymes. But the coating on serrapeptase gives me some low level but chronic distress. I think this is a huge flaw with serrapeptase. I hope that the other enzymes work just as well, and think they probably do.
 
L

lollipop

Guest
the argument for non-serrapeptase enzymes is they are safer than serrapeptase.

bromelain and papain (from pineapples or papaya, respectively) attack proteins with cysteine and have been used for centuries or eaten.

(The other proteolytic enzymes attack proteins with serine.)

These, and nattokinase, are fine passing through the stomach and can handle the acidity. Another is seaprose, from comes from Aspergillus melleus, a mold.

These all can handle stomach acid just fine.

The one that can't is serrapeptase.

I have no problems with the other proteolytic enzymes. But the coating on serrapeptase gives me some low level but chronic distress. I think this is a huge flaw with serrapeptase. I hope that the other enzymes work just as well, and think they probably do.
Interesting distinctions. Thank you for highlighting.
 

Queequeg

Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2016
Messages
1,191
Here is a link to dr. William Wong's lecture on proteolityc enzymes with special emphasis on serrapeptase.
I found it very helpful.


Thank you Ania, that was very informative.
One thing I got from this was that a blend of systemic enzymes may be better than just serrapeptase alone. And that the most effective formulas contain serrapeptase or natokinase as these two are the most powerful protolytic enzymes. They synergisticly help the other enzymes work more effectively.. kind of like the Michael Jordan effect.
 
Last edited:

Ania

Member
Joined
May 16, 2016
Messages
206
You are welcome. I listened to i quite some time ago, but as far as I remember dr.Wong is very much against nattokinase as a supplement. The guy finally made his own product which is quite effective. At leat for me.
 

Queequeg

Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2016
Messages
1,191
You are welcome. I listened to i quite some time ago, but as far as I remember dr.Wong is very much against nattokinase as a supplement. The guy finally made his own product which is quite effective. At leat for me.
I must have missed that part. Could be too much fibrin in the brain:) His product does look good and has lots of good reviews.
 

Ania

Member
Joined
May 16, 2016
Messages
206
I listened to some interview, where he talked about why he finally made his own product and how he did it. Seems reliable. Wong himself seems too. Many of his views coincide with peatarian approach, though not 100%.
Don't worry about fibrin in the brain, it clears bad memories too
 

Queequeg

Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2016
Messages
1,191
Sorry, but my emoticons with funny faces do not appear.
no worries.. you still made me laugh, though you definitely need to have that fixed. nothing like a good emoji :thumbup
 

moss

Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2013
Messages
305
Here is a link to dr. William Wong's lecture on proteolityc enzymes with special emphasis on serrapeptase.
I found it very helpful.



Thanks for posting this. :happy: @Ania

the argument for non-serrapeptase enzymes is they are safer than serrapeptase.

bromelain and papain (from pineapples or papaya, respectively) attack proteins with cysteine and have been used for centuries or eaten.

(The other proteolytic enzymes attack proteins with serine.)

These, and nattokinase, are fine passing through the stomach and can handle the acidity. Another is seaprose, from comes from Aspergillus melleus, a mold.

These all can handle stomach acid just fine.

The one that can't is serrapeptase.

I have no problems with the other proteolytic enzymes. But the coating on serrapeptase gives me some low level but chronic distress. I think this is a huge flaw with serrapeptase. I hope that the other enzymes work just as well, and think they probably do.

@ecstatichamster

I have been in touch with the fellow in the video Ania posted up thread and this is his response wrt other proteolytic enzymes, Nattokinase and stomach issues that you may find of interest.
Also, I am not advocating necessarily, his proprietary blends...
My Serrapeptase (from another source) has arrived today and so I will give some feedback in due course and I am going to take with some digestive enzymes I currently have.

You mentioned papain and bromelain above, both these can be highly allergenic for some folks and upset the gut.
Hope this is of some help.

*********************************************

"Not all proteolytic enzymes have the same level (strength) of lysing (eating) ability and not all proteolytic enzymes lyse the same substrates (proteins). Some are better at lysing the immune complexes that cause inflammation, some are better at lysing other proteins such a fibrin / scar tissue. That is why proteolytic enzymes are best used in combination, Think of a Chinese fan as a single proteolytic enzyme then over lap another fan partially offer the first one, then overlap another partially over the second and so on. In blending particular proteolytic enzymes you gain the widest realm of physiological action. It was been found by Dr. Max Wolf, (an MD with 7 PhD’s), that the strongest fibrinolytic enzyme in a blend directs the action of the other enzymes. The strongest fibrinolytic mammalian and human enzyme is chymo trypsin. The Handbook of Proteolytic Enzymes lists it as being 8 to 10 x weaker in its ability to eat substrates than seirrapaptase. More recent tests have found serrapeptase to actually on the order of 12 to 16 times stronger than chymotrypsin. Nattokinase is level with serrapeptase or slightly weaker in its enzymatic action.

Most all proteolytic enzymes have a feedback mechanism to know when to stop lysing blood proteins. That in most cases keeps the blood from becoming overly thin as can happen with the drugs Coumadin, Warfarin and Heparin. In nature (i.e. natto curd), Nattokinase is always found together with Vit. K1 and the Vit. K controls the overthinking of blood. When the enzyme is isolated and used with out the Vit. K is when the danger of taking too much and having the same effect as the Heparin drugs comes in. Uncontrollable bleeding, I’ve personally spoken to doctors who’ve had that happen to their patients and themselves from nattokinase use. In cases where nattokinase is taken in seemingly large doses and no untoward bleeding happens then that product likely does not have the enzymatic action stated on the label. (That happens quite frequently in the supplement world).

On the stomach issue. Nothing gets absorbed in a stomach. It is simply a holding area to allow hydrochloric acid and acid resistant mouth enzymes to begin to break down food. ALL absorption and enzymatic digestion takes place in the intestines. Stomachs are supposed to be acidic, 2 to 4 pH. Intestines are alkaline, from 6.5 in the Duodenum to 7+ in the small and large intestine. An enzyme goes active when it gets wet in an alkaline environment. If there is stomach upset from enzyme use it is note to the “coating” but rather to either then lack of a good enteric coating protecting it from the acid in the stomach OR the stomach has lost its ability to product hydrochloric acid and is alkaline in which the enteric coating dissolves and the enzymes get wert and go active. Since the stomach does to have the same high level of mucous protection the intestines do the enzymes “bite” and irritate the stomach lining, causing a tummy ache or upset. Nearly 40% of the people over 40 have lost the ability to make hydrochloric acid. ALMOST ALL vegetarians lose the ability to make hydrochloric acid within a year of becoming vegetarian. "

A little more on Nattokinase.

Zymessence Compared to Other Systemic Enzyme Blends
 
Last edited:

Queequeg

Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2016
Messages
1,191
Thanks for posting this. :happy: @Ania
I have been in touch with the fellow in the video Ania posted up thread and this is his response wrt other proteolytic enzymes, Nattokinase and stomach issues that you may find of interest.
Also, I am not advocating necessarily, his proprietary blends...
My Serrapeptase (from another source) has arrived today and so I will give some feedback in due course and I am going to take with some digestive enzymes I currently have.

You mentioned papain and bromelain above, both these can be highly allergenic for some folks and upset the gut.
Hope this is of some help.

*********************************************

"Not all proteolytic enzymes have the same level (strength) of lysing (eating) ability and not all proteolytic enzymes lyse the same substrates (proteins). Some are better at lysing the immune complexes that cause inflammation, some are better at lysing other proteins such a fibrin / scar tissue. That is why proteolytic enzymes are best used in combination, Think of a Chinese fan as a single proteolytic enzyme then over lap another fan partially offer the first one, then overlap another partially over the second and so on. In blending particular proteolytic enzymes you gain the widest realm of physiological action. It was been found by Dr. Max Wolf, (an MD with 7 PhD’s), that the strongest fibrinolytic enzyme in a blend directs the action of the other enzymes. The strongest fibrinolytic mammalian and human enzyme is chymo trypsin. The Handbook of Proteolytic Enzymes lists it as being 8 to 10 x weaker in its ability to eat substrates than seirrapaptase. More recent tests have found serrapeptase to actually on the order of 12 to 16 times stronger than chymotrypsin. Nattokinase is level with serrapeptase or slightly weaker in its enzymatic action.

Most all proteolytic enzymes have a feedback mechanism to know when to stop lysing blood proteins. That in most cases keeps the blood from becoming overly thin as can happen with the drugs Coumadin, Warfarin and Heparin. In nature (i.e. natto curd), Nattokinase is always found together with Vit. K1 and the Vit. K controls the overthinking of blood. When the enzyme is isolated and used with out the Vit. K is when the danger of taking too much and having the same effect as the Heparin drugs comes in. Uncontrollable bleeding, I’ve personally spoken to doctors who’ve had that happen to their patients and themselves from nattokinase use. In cases where nattokinase is taken in seemingly large doses and no untoward bleeding happens then that product likely does not have the enzymatic action stated on the label. (That happens quite frequently in the supplement world).

On the stomach issue. Nothing gets absorbed in a stomach. It is simply a holding area to allow hydrochloric acid and acid resistant mouth enzymes to begin to break down food. ALL absorption and enzymatic digestion takes place in the intestines. Stomachs are supposed to be acidic, 2 to 4 pH. Intestines are alkaline, from 6.5 in the Duodenum to 7+ in the small and large intestine. An enzyme goes active when it gets wet in an alkaline environment. If there is stomach upset from enzyme use it is note to the “coating” but rather to either then lack of a good enteric coating protecting it from the acid in the stomach OR the stomach has lost its ability to product hydrochloric acid and is alkaline in which the enteric coating dissolves and the enzymes get wert and go active. Since the stomach does to have the same high level of mucous protection the intestines do the enzymes “bite” and irritate the stomach lining, causing a tummy ache or upset. Nearly 40% of the people over 40 have lost the ability to make hydrochloric acid. ALMOST ALL vegetarians lose the ability to make hydrochloric acid within a year of becoming vegetarian. "

A little more on Nattokinase.

Zymessence Compared to Other Systemic Enzyme Blends
@moss thank you so much. You do like to go straight to the source:clapping:
I just got my Enerex 120,000 SU serrapeptase yesterday. I did get a slight stomach ache this morning but after just 2 days I had zero back pain the whole day. After reading Dr Wong's email I think I may take it next time with some lemon water to lower the acid in my stomach. I am also taking a mixed digestive enzyme at the same time so I can get my "Chinese fans" all lined up.
 
Last edited:
OP
ecstatichamster
Joined
Nov 21, 2015
Messages
10,501
Thanks for posting this. :happy: @Ania



@ecstatichamster

I have been in touch with the fellow in the video Ania posted up thread and this is his response wrt other proteolytic enzymes, Nattokinase and stomach issues that you may find of interest.
Also, I am not advocating necessarily, his proprietary blends...
My Serrapeptase (from another source) has arrived today and so I will give some feedback in due course and I am going to take with some digestive enzymes I currently have.

You mentioned papain and bromelain above, both these can be highly allergenic for some folks and upset the gut.
Hope this is of some help.

*********************************************

"Not all proteolytic enzymes have the same level (strength) of lysing (eating) ability and not all proteolytic enzymes lyse the same substrates (proteins). Some are better at lysing the immune complexes that cause inflammation, some are better at lysing other proteins such a fibrin / scar tissue. That is why proteolytic enzymes are best used in combination, Think of a Chinese fan as a single proteolytic enzyme then over lap another fan partially offer the first one, then overlap another partially over the second and so on. In blending particular proteolytic enzymes you gain the widest realm of physiological action. It was been found by Dr. Max Wolf, (an MD with 7 PhD’s), that the strongest fibrinolytic enzyme in a blend directs the action of the other enzymes. The strongest fibrinolytic mammalian and human enzyme is chymo trypsin. The Handbook of Proteolytic Enzymes lists it as being 8 to 10 x weaker in its ability to eat substrates than seirrapaptase. More recent tests have found serrapeptase to actually on the order of 12 to 16 times stronger than chymotrypsin. Nattokinase is level with serrapeptase or slightly weaker in its enzymatic action.

Most all proteolytic enzymes have a feedback mechanism to know when to stop lysing blood proteins. That in most cases keeps the blood from becoming overly thin as can happen with the drugs Coumadin, Warfarin and Heparin. In nature (i.e. natto curd), Nattokinase is always found together with Vit. K1 and the Vit. K controls the overthinking of blood. When the enzyme is isolated and used with out the Vit. K is when the danger of taking too much and having the same effect as the Heparin drugs comes in. Uncontrollable bleeding, I’ve personally spoken to doctors who’ve had that happen to their patients and themselves from nattokinase use. In cases where nattokinase is taken in seemingly large doses and no untoward bleeding happens then that product likely does not have the enzymatic action stated on the label. (That happens quite frequently in the supplement world).

On the stomach issue. Nothing gets absorbed in a stomach. It is simply a holding area to allow hydrochloric acid and acid resistant mouth enzymes to begin to break down food. ALL absorption and enzymatic digestion takes place in the intestines. Stomachs are supposed to be acidic, 2 to 4 pH. Intestines are alkaline, from 6.5 in the Duodenum to 7+ in the small and large intestine. An enzyme goes active when it gets wet in an alkaline environment. If there is stomach upset from enzyme use it is note to the “coating” but rather to either then lack of a good enteric coating protecting it from the acid in the stomach OR the stomach has lost its ability to product hydrochloric acid and is alkaline in which the enteric coating dissolves and the enzymes get wert and go active. Since the stomach does to have the same high level of mucous protection the intestines do the enzymes “bite” and irritate the stomach lining, causing a tummy ache or upset. Nearly 40% of the people over 40 have lost the ability to make hydrochloric acid. ALMOST ALL vegetarians lose the ability to make hydrochloric acid within a year of becoming vegetarian. "

A little more on Nattokinase.

Zymessence Compared to Other Systemic Enzyme Blends

well, that is silly, in my case, I make plenty of hydrochloric acid in my stomach. I don't really believe any of this actually. I'd love to see some citations if there are any. Meh.
 

moss

Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2013
Messages
305
well, that is silly, in my case, I make plenty of hydrochloric acid in my stomach. I don't really believe any of this actually.

I shared part of the response from my email to you, specifically, because I thought it may be of interest. It's not and that is fine, not asking you to believe anything.

I'd love to see some citations if there are any. Meh.
You can find the citations if you wish. No offence. :blush:
 
Last edited:
OP
ecstatichamster
Joined
Nov 21, 2015
Messages
10,501
I shared part of the response from my email to you, specifically, because I thought it may be of interest. It's not and that is fine, not asking you to believe anything.


You can find the citations if you wish. No offence. :blush:

I am glad. I didn't mean to offend in any way and apologize if I came across as offensive, I can see how I did.
 

Sheila

Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2014
Messages
374
A few n=1 empirical findings to add to le terrain here.

120,000 SPU serrapeptase 2 x daily dealt well with bronchial gunk for me after a short, sharp cold, even after challenging it yesterday with loadsa dairy. If taken without sufficient liquid between meals, I seemed to get a paroxysmal cough, which I presume is reflexive of some gut disturbance from the enzymes, but I did not feel any stomach discomfort so didn't see that coming. After years of RSI-ing my vocal cords this tendency is a weak point, but quickly solved with extra fluid. I also now take digestive enzymes with meals and, frankly am impressed with their effect. Early days, just using Drs Best brand as I happen to use that for Artemisinin trials also.

I have had floaters since a child and will be delighted if they wander off, never to be seen again under this method. For those who have experienced resolution, do they return if you stop Serrapeptase?

Thank you for everyone's contributions here, most interesting, and particularly useful to have a tactical method for lung gunk - if it works consistently and without harm - as that can be very serious in older people.

Sincerely,
Sheila
 

Queequeg

Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2016
Messages
1,191
I have had floaters since a child and will be delighted if they wander off, never to be seen again under this method. For those who have experienced resolution, do they return if you stop Serrapeptase?
I am glad to hear that Serrapeptase worked for you. It's amazing stuff. I take it at the same dose as you - 2x 120,000. As for floaters. my disappeared for a while but lately I noticed small little wisps every once in a while bit nothing like it was before. I don't know what would happen if I stop taking it. But I don't mind if I have to take it for life since there are so many other benefits to it.
 

Sheila

Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2014
Messages
374
Dear Queequeg,
Thank you for your response. I think I will swap from Drs Best to the Enerex formulations, I took those initially - better.
Re floaters, would you mind telling me how long you have been taking 120,000 x2 please? I suspect that serrapeptase is a patch, but once working something might keep working, and a lower maintenance dose might be more applicable. So I am wondering if you have not been on it too long re your back problems and if so, I hope that longer use will engender a more comprehensive change. I am glad your Mother has relief from her varicosities, they can be painful as well as easily bruised and unsightly.
Best regards
Sheila
 

Queequeg

Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2016
Messages
1,191
Dear Queequeg,
Thank you for your response. I think I will swap from Drs Best to the Enerex formulations, I took those initially - better.
Re floaters, would you mind telling me how long you have been taking 120,000 x2 please? I suspect that serrapeptase is a patch, but once working something might keep working, and a lower maintenance dose might be more applicable. So I am wondering if you have not been on it too long re your back problems and if so, I hope that longer use will engender a more comprehensive change. I am glad your Mother has relief from her varicosities, they can be painful as well as easily bruised and unsightly.
Best regards
Sheila
You are welcome. I started on Dr. Best 40,000 x2 for about 2 months and have been on the Enerex for maybe 3 months. The Drs Best works too so I would still finish what you have maybe taking it with the enerex. I agree about the maintenance does, I think the best recommendation is to start high for say 8 months and then taper down to a lower dose. Also if you read in the thread, it is helpful to take a mixed digestive enzyme with the serrapeptase to get maximum benefit.

@Queequeg, what dosage does your mom take for her varicose veins?
She too started on Dr Best 40,000 x2. I don't know if she has switched to the enerex yet but I bought her a bottle of that.
 

Similar threads

Back
Top Bottom